The Rotary Nostalgia Thread
I'm unable to upload to my gallery to show the better scan plus one of it at Duxford, but it isn't always a Good Thing to see an aircraft you flew being displayed in a museum!
Savoia, we only referred to airframe numbers in our logbooks: the squadron side number was our reference (and call sign) and could be changed from airframe to airframe as and when a rotation occurred into or from deep maintenance.
As for talking to pongoes during training: perish the thought
Thread Starter
Heli1: X-Ray vision indeed!
Grazie Griffo! Does this mean the Navy flyers had to work just that little but harder for their pay?
John, thanks for the clarification.
Still .. better (one supposes) than being dragged behind a US Mail plane!
American antics from times past .. involved this chap being towed by holding onto a rope!
Grazie Griffo! Does this mean the Navy flyers had to work just that little but harder for their pay?
John, thanks for the clarification.
Geoffers wrote:
I can remember being winched out of the sea on completion of my WDD by Boss Spelling (CO of Brawdy SAR) off St Davids in Pembrokeshire. Such was the marginal performance of the WW7 that even though I was then a mere 14 stone (happy days) reeling me in actually wound the aircraft down into the sea so with my nerves frayed and the front wheels submerged I was unceremoniously dragged from the oggin.
I can remember being winched out of the sea on completion of my WDD by Boss Spelling (CO of Brawdy SAR) off St Davids in Pembrokeshire. Such was the marginal performance of the WW7 that even though I was then a mere 14 stone (happy days) reeling me in actually wound the aircraft down into the sea so with my nerves frayed and the front wheels submerged I was unceremoniously dragged from the oggin.
Still .. better (one supposes) than being dragged behind a US Mail plane!
American antics from times past .. involved this chap being towed by holding onto a rope!
All right...time to own up.I didn't read the serial.I worked it out from the code(62) ,the date and my Whirlwind 7 movement records of the time !
Still I wish my eyesight was that good.
Still I wish my eyesight was that good.
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George Harrison
For Savoia,
If you are collecting details of Beatle rotary flights ... in 1981/82 I think (will give a date from log book if wanted) ... I flew dear Barry Sheene on a Sunday from Silverstone, where he'd been racing a DAF truck, to his home at Charlwood Manor by Gatwick's 08 threshold. On route, we landed at George Harrison's mansion at Friary park, Henley. Barry persuaded George to try a flight with me in the Enstrom 280C Shark. G-BGMX for the reggie buffs.
I gave Mr Harrison the full sales demonstration, but on landing when Barry said to George ... "You should buy one of those - they're only fifty grand," the reply came back ... "what would I do with it!"
George Harrison's son Dhani was there as a three-year old scooting about the gravel drive on a kid's motor bike. Much later, I met the six-foot Dhani around 2006 ish when I gave a display at Goodwood House for Barry Sheen's commemorative dinner. His wife Stefanie also came over from Oz.
One associated oddity. GH took me up to his £3million recording studio in his mansion where the walls were awash with the group's 'gold' records. George actually played a sample of one track from his latest planned release. The album was entitled ... 'Somewhere in England' but I never saw that LP actually appear. George was so concerned to find a place on the cover pic, where the bar code would go. I suggested he put it on the drum.
I do recall one track had a Beatle version of an old tune he'd picked up from somewhere ... "Here's the story of a very unfortunate coloured man, who got arrested down in old Hong Kong. He got plenty of (something) taken away from him, when he kicked or kissed (not sure) poor Judy's throng. Or similar. I think Hoagy Carmichael sang the original piece.
Also GH's kitchen walls had the signature of just about every pop star, celebrity, sportsman etc you've ever heard of. He told us ... "We can never re-decorate!" George was indeed a lovely man and was Barry of course.
Dennis K.
If you are collecting details of Beatle rotary flights ... in 1981/82 I think (will give a date from log book if wanted) ... I flew dear Barry Sheene on a Sunday from Silverstone, where he'd been racing a DAF truck, to his home at Charlwood Manor by Gatwick's 08 threshold. On route, we landed at George Harrison's mansion at Friary park, Henley. Barry persuaded George to try a flight with me in the Enstrom 280C Shark. G-BGMX for the reggie buffs.
I gave Mr Harrison the full sales demonstration, but on landing when Barry said to George ... "You should buy one of those - they're only fifty grand," the reply came back ... "what would I do with it!"
George Harrison's son Dhani was there as a three-year old scooting about the gravel drive on a kid's motor bike. Much later, I met the six-foot Dhani around 2006 ish when I gave a display at Goodwood House for Barry Sheen's commemorative dinner. His wife Stefanie also came over from Oz.
One associated oddity. GH took me up to his £3million recording studio in his mansion where the walls were awash with the group's 'gold' records. George actually played a sample of one track from his latest planned release. The album was entitled ... 'Somewhere in England' but I never saw that LP actually appear. George was so concerned to find a place on the cover pic, where the bar code would go. I suggested he put it on the drum.
I do recall one track had a Beatle version of an old tune he'd picked up from somewhere ... "Here's the story of a very unfortunate coloured man, who got arrested down in old Hong Kong. He got plenty of (something) taken away from him, when he kicked or kissed (not sure) poor Judy's throng. Or similar. I think Hoagy Carmichael sang the original piece.
Also GH's kitchen walls had the signature of just about every pop star, celebrity, sportsman etc you've ever heard of. He told us ... "We can never re-decorate!" George was indeed a lovely man and was Barry of course.
Dennis K.
Brantly v Hiller v Hughes v Bell
Re: Sav’s picture of Brantly B2 G-ASHJ (http://www.pprune.org/6822427-post1099.html)
This aircraft appears to have been imported to take part in the evaluation to find a light recce helo for the British Army in the early 1960s, which ended up in the Sioux purchase.
According to a book by Vic Flintham, the Brantly B2A & B was pitched against the Hiller UH-12E (a/c believed borrowed from the Fleet Air Arm), the Hughes 269A, and the Bell 47G-3B-1.
The competition trials were conducted in 1962 and 1963 by the A&AEE, in the UK and Libya. Hot & high conditions where the 47G might have performed well versus the others?
The Hughes were sponsored by Westland (in addition to the 47G), the Brantlys sponsored by BEAS,and the Hillers by Shorts.
From this Flight article (1964 | 0793 | Flight Archive), it looks like it was narrowed down to the 47G (cost then £18k, £317k now!) versus the 12E (£22k then, £388k now).
Westland won with the 47G, price being a decider, and also the fact that they had more helicopter manufacturing experience than Shorts.
Here are the a/c involved (from the UKSerials website):
S/n - UK mil serial - Type - Details
42-0066 XS349 Hughes 269 A Ex G-ASBL, ex G-17-1, d/d 13/07/1962, to XS684 21/06/1963
42-0066 XS684 Hughes 269 A Ex G-ASBL, ex G-17-1, XS349, to G-ASBL, w/o 27/10/1964 at Fairlop
52-0081 XS685 Hughes 269 A Ex G-ASBD, ex G-17-2, to G-ASBD, w/o 01/08/1981 at South Driffield
315 XS681 Brantly B2 A Ex G-ASHK, d/d 26/06/1963, to G-ASHK, w/o 18/12/1969 Newport Pagnall
303 XS682 Brantly B2 A Aircraft not required for evaluation, serial n.t.u.
319 XS683 Brantly B2 B Ex G-ASHJ, d/d 18/07/1963, to G-ASHJ, canx. 26/09/1984
One Hughes had 2 different military serials, for some reason.
I couldn’t find which Bell 47G(s) were used in the competition.
The eventual order was for 281 Sioux. The first 50 were off the Agusta line - seemingly for speed, as Agusta was already building the 47G, and the lower labour rates in Italy seem to have been a factor, according "Flight".
Also IIRC Westland had a restriction in their agreement with Sikorsky, meaning they couldn’t licence-build aircraft from any of Sikorsky's US competitors - but licence-building a Italian licence-built version of one of their competitor's a/c was OK!
Then another 183 off the Westland line, all being Sioux AH1s for the Army & Marines, apart from 15 x HT2s for the RAF. Westland also built 16 x 47G-4As for Bristow to train AAC crews at Middle Wallop.
This aircraft appears to have been imported to take part in the evaluation to find a light recce helo for the British Army in the early 1960s, which ended up in the Sioux purchase.
According to a book by Vic Flintham, the Brantly B2A & B was pitched against the Hiller UH-12E (a/c believed borrowed from the Fleet Air Arm), the Hughes 269A, and the Bell 47G-3B-1.
The competition trials were conducted in 1962 and 1963 by the A&AEE, in the UK and Libya. Hot & high conditions where the 47G might have performed well versus the others?
The Hughes were sponsored by Westland (in addition to the 47G), the Brantlys sponsored by BEAS,and the Hillers by Shorts.
From this Flight article (1964 | 0793 | Flight Archive), it looks like it was narrowed down to the 47G (cost then £18k, £317k now!) versus the 12E (£22k then, £388k now).
Westland won with the 47G, price being a decider, and also the fact that they had more helicopter manufacturing experience than Shorts.
Here are the a/c involved (from the UKSerials website):
S/n - UK mil serial - Type - Details
42-0066 XS349 Hughes 269 A Ex G-ASBL, ex G-17-1, d/d 13/07/1962, to XS684 21/06/1963
42-0066 XS684 Hughes 269 A Ex G-ASBL, ex G-17-1, XS349, to G-ASBL, w/o 27/10/1964 at Fairlop
52-0081 XS685 Hughes 269 A Ex G-ASBD, ex G-17-2, to G-ASBD, w/o 01/08/1981 at South Driffield
315 XS681 Brantly B2 A Ex G-ASHK, d/d 26/06/1963, to G-ASHK, w/o 18/12/1969 Newport Pagnall
303 XS682 Brantly B2 A Aircraft not required for evaluation, serial n.t.u.
319 XS683 Brantly B2 B Ex G-ASHJ, d/d 18/07/1963, to G-ASHJ, canx. 26/09/1984
One Hughes had 2 different military serials, for some reason.
I couldn’t find which Bell 47G(s) were used in the competition.
The eventual order was for 281 Sioux. The first 50 were off the Agusta line - seemingly for speed, as Agusta was already building the 47G, and the lower labour rates in Italy seem to have been a factor, according "Flight".
Also IIRC Westland had a restriction in their agreement with Sikorsky, meaning they couldn’t licence-build aircraft from any of Sikorsky's US competitors - but licence-building a Italian licence-built version of one of their competitor's a/c was OK!
Then another 183 off the Westland line, all being Sioux AH1s for the Army & Marines, apart from 15 x HT2s for the RAF. Westland also built 16 x 47G-4As for Bristow to train AAC crews at Middle Wallop.
Now that uploading seems to be working, a better scan of the Whirlwind HAS7:
And if you haven't Heli1's squinting ability, an even larger image here
And if you haven't Heli1's squinting ability, an even larger image here
Thread Starter
Well done Watson, that is most interesting!
Heli1: Even in John's 'super-duper' size image I can't make out the number on the Hiller .. except (perhaps) the orange nose numbers which (I think) are either 46 or 47!
More Hiller ..
Bristow Hiller UH12E G-ATDW as seen at Southampton's Eastleigh Airport in 1967 (Photo: Barry Friend)
Seen here wearing 'Plessey' titles. That seems to have been a long-running contract for Bristows despite the fact that it was held on and off by a small number of additional operators. I believe it was 1975-6 when Ferranti had the contract which had been taken over from Mann's after the incident involving the ill-fated G-AXAY in 1974.
A year on from the above photo this craft was sold to New Zealand where she flew as ZK-HCQ.
Heli1: Even in John's 'super-duper' size image I can't make out the number on the Hiller .. except (perhaps) the orange nose numbers which (I think) are either 46 or 47!
More Hiller ..
Bristow Hiller UH12E G-ATDW as seen at Southampton's Eastleigh Airport in 1967 (Photo: Barry Friend)
Seen here wearing 'Plessey' titles. That seems to have been a long-running contract for Bristows despite the fact that it was held on and off by a small number of additional operators. I believe it was 1975-6 when Ferranti had the contract which had been taken over from Mann's after the incident involving the ill-fated G-AXAY in 1974.
A year on from the above photo this craft was sold to New Zealand where she flew as ZK-HCQ.
Thread Starter
Heli-Union: Welcome aboard, a great photo!
The records show G-AWLC as being owned by Heli-Union (UK) Ltd. between 1968 and 1972 but it would be interesting to know where that photo was taken? Please feel free to post any additional Heli-Union images!
Denissimo: Great stuff re: George Harrison - another chapter for your next book!
Some more from the 60's ..
Roger Daltry of 'The Who' dismounts Jock Cameron's BEA Agusta-Bell 206A G-AWGU at the Isle of Wight Festival, Wootton Bridge on 30th August 1969
Ringo Starr, also on the Isle of Wight, doubtless at the same festival .. perhaps even arriving in Heli-Union's G-AWLC?
The records show G-AWLC as being owned by Heli-Union (UK) Ltd. between 1968 and 1972 but it would be interesting to know where that photo was taken? Please feel free to post any additional Heli-Union images!
Denissimo: Great stuff re: George Harrison - another chapter for your next book!
Some more from the 60's ..
Roger Daltry of 'The Who' dismounts Jock Cameron's BEA Agusta-Bell 206A G-AWGU at the Isle of Wight Festival, Wootton Bridge on 30th August 1969
Ringo Starr, also on the Isle of Wight, doubtless at the same festival .. perhaps even arriving in Heli-Union's G-AWLC?
Alouette II G-AWLC | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
The photographer has a couple of nice Brantly shots on his page as well. ATFH and ASXE
Another photo of AWLC here with the heliunion logo reduced in size and the B.E.A.S logo beneath it. Was there a tie up between the two?
Says taken at Staverton but the date is clearly wrong.
The photographer has a couple of nice Brantly shots on his page as well. ATFH and ASXE
Another photo of AWLC here with the heliunion logo reduced in size and the B.E.A.S logo beneath it. Was there a tie up between the two?
Says taken at Staverton but the date is clearly wrong.
Last edited by ericferret; 4th May 2013 at 22:51.
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I do not have the place for that photo but is in UK.
What I have is some more photographie some is Heli-Union some is not but not everything has the details of time and place. The photos I have come from the Heli-Union unofficial website and some others.
What I have is some more photographie some is Heli-Union some is not but not everything has the details of time and place. The photos I have come from the Heli-Union unofficial website and some others.
Re Dennis' dit about George and about Barry.
I still regret not asking George to leave his mark on the interior of the 206L when I flew him, but even more do I regret my kid sister currently not knowing where she put the page with autographs of all four of the Beatles when our Dad was looking after them when they played at Walthamstow
Bazza was a great mate, and I still have his emails and the photos he sent to me when he bought his A109. It took months to demolish the 'box it came in' which was left outside our hangar, we were seriously thinking of renting it out to a family or three or selling it as firewood for five seasons! We have a Barry Sheene ride to the Phillip Island MotoGP every year, just because we can and to remember the silly sod
Happy days.
I still regret not asking George to leave his mark on the interior of the 206L when I flew him, but even more do I regret my kid sister currently not knowing where she put the page with autographs of all four of the Beatles when our Dad was looking after them when they played at Walthamstow
Bazza was a great mate, and I still have his emails and the photos he sent to me when he bought his A109. It took months to demolish the 'box it came in' which was left outside our hangar, we were seriously thinking of renting it out to a family or three or selling it as firewood for five seasons! We have a Barry Sheene ride to the Phillip Island MotoGP every year, just because we can and to remember the silly sod
Happy days.
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Royal Navy Hiller XS 165
Savoia
XS 165 (551) was certainly on the books of 705 Squadron on 6th September 1969. I flew her from Culdrose to Yeovilton via Roborough on 5th September. On the 6th September I acted as the hapless instructor for Colin Bates's Little Old Lady Routine in 548.This must have been for Yeovilton Air Day, an event engraved on the memory of all those that took part for the hilarious pre-display briefing and 845 Squadrons near disastrous piano drop. 551 must have been the static display since I flew her back to Culdrose on September 8th.
Oh Happy Days
ICO
XS 165 (551) was certainly on the books of 705 Squadron on 6th September 1969. I flew her from Culdrose to Yeovilton via Roborough on 5th September. On the 6th September I acted as the hapless instructor for Colin Bates's Little Old Lady Routine in 548.This must have been for Yeovilton Air Day, an event engraved on the memory of all those that took part for the hilarious pre-display briefing and 845 Squadrons near disastrous piano drop. 551 must have been the static display since I flew her back to Culdrose on September 8th.
Oh Happy Days
ICO
Thread Starter
Eric: Nice shot!
Heli-Union: Please feel free to post whatever you have.
ICO: Thank you for the Hiller confirmation along with your reminiscences aloft, I am sure they were great days! I would like to hear more about 'Master Bates' Little Old Lady Routine and the pre-display briefing!
Those early days of rotary-wing aviation seem so far removed from our 21st century and yet, as a youngster my godfather would talk of such times as thought they were only yesterday! His years in the AAC (although it wasn't called that when he joined) as well as his time with Bristol and later as a test pilot at A&AEE Boscombe Down, seemed to be so constantly filled with aeronautical antics and general tomfoolery that I imagined he never had a single serious day in his life!
Colin was a 'friendly face' at Brooklands for many years - such a thoroughly pleasant person. Sadly missed.
John: Sorry to learn of your sister misplacing the autographs of all the Beatles .. hmm .. Beatles and Whirlwinds with red noses (your HAS7) .. makes me think ..
Four young lads run around a Whirlwind!
Oops .. lets try it from this side
C'mon lads, around we go
Did you really say you saw a Navy flyer in his briefs around the back here?
And the craft in question ..
British European Airways Westland Whirlwind Series 1 G-ANFH c.1960's
I don't have a location for the above photo but .. someone might recognise the Piper hangar.
Heli-Union: Please feel free to post whatever you have.
ICO: Thank you for the Hiller confirmation along with your reminiscences aloft, I am sure they were great days! I would like to hear more about 'Master Bates' Little Old Lady Routine and the pre-display briefing!
Those early days of rotary-wing aviation seem so far removed from our 21st century and yet, as a youngster my godfather would talk of such times as thought they were only yesterday! His years in the AAC (although it wasn't called that when he joined) as well as his time with Bristol and later as a test pilot at A&AEE Boscombe Down, seemed to be so constantly filled with aeronautical antics and general tomfoolery that I imagined he never had a single serious day in his life!
Colin was a 'friendly face' at Brooklands for many years - such a thoroughly pleasant person. Sadly missed.
John: Sorry to learn of your sister misplacing the autographs of all the Beatles .. hmm .. Beatles and Whirlwinds with red noses (your HAS7) .. makes me think ..
Four young lads run around a Whirlwind!
Oops .. lets try it from this side
C'mon lads, around we go
Did you really say you saw a Navy flyer in his briefs around the back here?
And the craft in question ..
British European Airways Westland Whirlwind Series 1 G-ANFH c.1960's
I don't have a location for the above photo but .. someone might recognise the Piper hangar.