Helicopters and Volcanic Ash?
Well, I've just turned up at work to find that we're grounded(along with the rest of the UK ASUs I believe) after advice from Turbomeca. As someone else said, a CYA exercise I think for low level stuff.
Last edited by MightyGem; 16th Apr 2010 at 07:23.
Thanks for that info MG
- time to go and do the blag we've planned - hope Cameron isn't around ready to "fire up the Quattro", though most of the lads have decided to get banged up in time for the World Cup - get free SKY TV and 3 meals a day!
HF
- time to go and do the blag we've planned - hope Cameron isn't around ready to "fire up the Quattro", though most of the lads have decided to get banged up in time for the World Cup - get free SKY TV and 3 meals a day!HF
Now, all sensible people wouldn't have any problems with flight-restictions when you're exposed to the smoke and volcanic ash. But what sort of consentration in the air is it in the lower part of the atmosphere a few thousand kilometers away?
Is it really sane to have EMS and SAR helicopters (all helicopters for that sake) grounded far far away from the eruption. As long as you can't see these particals in the air, I doubt that they are more harmful than the very visible SAND you normally see when landing in dry places. (damages to surfaces, not ingested)
And for engine damage, this should be avoided with the use of sand-filter?? I am not talking about partical-seperator, but proper sand-filter.
But this ash is really special, so normal means won't help.
But hey, there might be "other" reasons to keep a total ban I'm sure.
Is it really sane to have EMS and SAR helicopters (all helicopters for that sake) grounded far far away from the eruption. As long as you can't see these particals in the air, I doubt that they are more harmful than the very visible SAND you normally see when landing in dry places. (damages to surfaces, not ingested)
And for engine damage, this should be avoided with the use of sand-filter?? I am not talking about partical-seperator, but proper sand-filter.
But this ash is really special, so normal means won't help.
But hey, there might be "other" reasons to keep a total ban I'm sure.
It would be interesting to see a comparison with the Harmattan in W Africa - different composition of course but often much more dense than this stuff, ISTR many hours flogging around in 1-2 mile vis
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
If there is absolutely, and I keep hearing it on the radio and TV, absolutely positively no threat to health in any context whatsoever...with Professor after Doctor after Health 'Expert' telling us this is so, how come engines are 'going to be' affected so much as to ground EMS etc?
Having washed the car yesterday (it really needed it), I expected a layer of this volcanic ash to be on it this morning. Quelle suprise, diddly squat, apart from those darned flying rats leaving a message. I'm sure there's a difference between flying through a volcanic ash cloud as in the 747 back in '82 and flying through dissipated ash cloud thousands of Km down range.
What next FFS?
Thunderstorm in Edingburgh, stop refuelling operations in Newcastle!
And when some other 'expert' appears on TV and mentions health risks, cancellation of the London Marathon and other events next weekend?
Hey ho, It's a lovely day out there, the birds are singing (and flying) and all is well with the world. (until an expert tells us otherwise!)
Having washed the car yesterday (it really needed it), I expected a layer of this volcanic ash to be on it this morning. Quelle suprise, diddly squat, apart from those darned flying rats leaving a message. I'm sure there's a difference between flying through a volcanic ash cloud as in the 747 back in '82 and flying through dissipated ash cloud thousands of Km down range.
What next FFS?
Thunderstorm in Edingburgh, stop refuelling operations in Newcastle!
And when some other 'expert' appears on TV and mentions health risks, cancellation of the London Marathon and other events next weekend?
Hey ho, It's a lovely day out there, the birds are singing (and flying) and all is well with the world. (until an expert tells us otherwise!)
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Um... lifting
The plug is of the threaded type with counter-clockwise threads and for the right amount, I will use my devilish powers to unscrew the volcano with it
Jokes aside.
I can tell you that the ash that falls lea side of the volcano is very thick and it is beginning to damage farmlands. But to our amazement, most of the domestic airports and airfields have not been closed and flying helicopters in the viscinity of the volcano has not been prohibited.
Air North has been busy flying with news reporters and geologists and evacuating people from the area.
Check this article on Morgunbladid newspaper, it is in Icelandic but the picture isn't
The plug is of the threaded type with counter-clockwise threads and for the right amount, I will use my devilish powers to unscrew the volcano with it
Jokes aside.
I can tell you that the ash that falls lea side of the volcano is very thick and it is beginning to damage farmlands. But to our amazement, most of the domestic airports and airfields have not been closed and flying helicopters in the viscinity of the volcano has not been prohibited.
Air North has been busy flying with news reporters and geologists and evacuating people from the area.
Check this article on Morgunbladid newspaper, it is in Icelandic but the picture isn't
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I suppose the VFR heli-ban hysteria is because we aren't used to this situation.
If the volcano at Iceland had been active for several years, they wouldn't quit flying in Northern Europe....
The British 747 flew through the main eruption form the volcano with extremely dense ash, no wonder the engines stopped..
It's the same in countries with blue skies 364 days a year, and the one day with poor visibility, they don't fly.
In Norway we have winter and lots of rain/snow and poor conditions, but have learned to live with it, and fly when the conditions are good enough, but it doesn't need to be perfect.
Heli-Ice:
I know you are happy that you get a lot of tourists coming to see the volcano, but you don't need to smoke out the rest of Northern Europe! Look what you have done, now we can't even fly to Iceland to see it!
Can you please turn down the eruption a bit, so we can get things moving here again...?
If the volcano at Iceland had been active for several years, they wouldn't quit flying in Northern Europe....
The British 747 flew through the main eruption form the volcano with extremely dense ash, no wonder the engines stopped..
It's the same in countries with blue skies 364 days a year, and the one day with poor visibility, they don't fly.
In Norway we have winter and lots of rain/snow and poor conditions, but have learned to live with it, and fly when the conditions are good enough, but it doesn't need to be perfect.
Heli-Ice:
I know you are happy that you get a lot of tourists coming to see the volcano, but you don't need to smoke out the rest of Northern Europe! Look what you have done, now we can't even fly to Iceland to see it!
Can you please turn down the eruption a bit, so we can get things moving here again...?
"Volcanic ash is hard to detect from an aircraft, and is not visible on the weatherradar.
The most dangerous aspect is that the particles'(ash) meltingpoint is lower than the turbines' working-temp. This leads to the ash melting to a thick, lava-like fluid, that slowly floats into the engine and causing it to shut down.
The ashparticles are very hard, with sharp edges, effectively sand-blowing leading edges.
The windshields are most vulnerable, turning matte, and the pilot's loose visibility."
I cannot wait for the next disaster movie to come out, which shall surely includes scenes like the one above.
Unbelievably i managed to claw my way home from London to Yorkshire , battling my way through volcanic ash . My pax were issued with scarves across their mouths and i wore WW2 goggles to protect my eyes . The engine miraculously kept turning , blades dripping molton glass ...but we made it 
Now planning to be a superhero and collect some pax from the borders who have been stranded . Strangely enough , looking inside the cockpit and engine bay there doesnt seem to be a single speck of dust ...its immaculate .
Maybe its my butler being v attentive ...or maybe just maybe .....no thats such a stupid thought .......i was just going to suggest that maybe this is a load of bollocks and there is no ash floating out there at 500ft at all .....maybe our beaurocrats have their heads up their arses again and havent actually looked outside
One word ......PATHETIC . No add another one as well TYPICAL . How on earth did we win a war .
Now planning to be a superhero and collect some pax from the borders who have been stranded . Strangely enough , looking inside the cockpit and engine bay there doesnt seem to be a single speck of dust ...its immaculate .
Maybe its my butler being v attentive ...or maybe just maybe .....no thats such a stupid thought .......i was just going to suggest that maybe this is a load of bollocks and there is no ash floating out there at 500ft at all .....maybe our beaurocrats have their heads up their arses again and havent actually looked outside
One word ......PATHETIC . No add another one as well TYPICAL . How on earth did we win a war .
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charlieDontSurf
What we got here is a hostage situation. We found a few very rich tourists and they are held hostage by the eruption while we strip'em to the bone.
Just wait a few days and these people will be let loose and you will be tricked up here instead for a complete package
A little more about the ash vs helicopter.
Since the volcanic ash mainly composed of very rough glass type crystals, doesn't it eat up the blades on our precious helicopters? I recon that this is a lot worse than desert sand/dust of any kind?
Scoop and tottigol
Make sure that the movie will be shot in Iceland in real circumstances. We have all the resources here and if something isn't available, you don't need it.
What we got here is a hostage situation. We found a few very rich tourists and they are held hostage by the eruption while we strip'em to the bone.
Just wait a few days and these people will be let loose and you will be tricked up here instead for a complete package
A little more about the ash vs helicopter.
Since the volcanic ash mainly composed of very rough glass type crystals, doesn't it eat up the blades on our precious helicopters? I recon that this is a lot worse than desert sand/dust of any kind?
Scoop and tottigol
Make sure that the movie will be shot in Iceland in real circumstances. We have all the resources here and if something isn't available, you don't need it.
I remember hearing that when Mt. St. Helens erupted in the early '80's, the guys that chose to fly amongst the ash got about 300 hours between overhauls on their compressors. My guess is the engines and rotor systems leading edges won't last too long. The engine probably won't quit...right now...
There is no evidence of any ash at all from my flights last night or today ...i would say that means there isnt any ....some of the more enterprising operators of jets are really making hay now flying charters 
Of course if and when there IS ash then things would be different ....until then carry on flying .
Of course if and when there IS ash then things would be different ....until then carry on flying .
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What absolutely astonishes me is the arrogance and selfishness being displayed in this thread. HM Government are taking advice from volcanologists and the met office about the ash plume and are acting on that advice. In this thread I read non experts who simply want to fly wherever and whenever they like, to hell with the rest of us. Well I personally don't want the mangled wreckage of your aircraft landing on my head, or my house or my friends etc. etc. and I don't want my taxes spent in scraping you up off the ground. You remind me of the most ignorant comment on sky from some woman who said "It's a disgrace, I want to go on my holidays and they won't let me!" Does she really want a holiday which has the potential to become permanent?
The effects of volcanic ash on aircraft are very well documented and the risks are too high, stay on the ground until it's absolutely safe and you're not likely to cause harm to the rest of us.
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No judgement required....
It is understandably the correct decision for a state functionary to make.
He is only at 'wrong' if he 'allows' flght incorrectly - there is no incentive for him to make a judgement to allow flights ... even though it is probably ok.
It's a bit like y2k computer issue....
(Nutty but ......... if required corridors could be verified as suitable by flying 'survey flights' - the squirrel with barrier filter could do the job - ready to go now if required....)
After all the 100's of millions of pounds might be worth a few hours in a helicopter...
don't they have atmospheric sampling aircraft?
He is only at 'wrong' if he 'allows' flght incorrectly - there is no incentive for him to make a judgement to allow flights ... even though it is probably ok.
It's a bit like y2k computer issue....
(Nutty but ......... if required corridors could be verified as suitable by flying 'survey flights' - the squirrel with barrier filter could do the job - ready to go now if required....)
After all the 100's of millions of pounds might be worth a few hours in a helicopter...
don't they have atmospheric sampling aircraft?