Today's ridiculous question regarding the Lynx.
The oleos on the Mk9 gave the appearance of being an extremely robustly engineered item - almost a throwback to the standards of the 1950's. As I pointed out to one of Westland's top neddies during a factory visit when we collected some of the first, they bear an uncanny resemblance to Whirlwind oleos................
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Twos In
I am not looking for an argument so I will trust what you say on the Tow Fit causing Much of the vibration.
I never fitted a "bonk' but memory says that when fitted you had to 'Strike it Hard' with you fist to assist setting up the first reading , hence the Bonk name.
I stand to be corrected on that.
The Curse of Lynx from early on was the 4 R Vib.
We, 9 Regt shared a hangar with 4 Regt who where the first unit in BAOR to be equipped with the Lynx.
Our new cabs where up and running and the Mechs from 4 Regt, where consistently busy trying to sort out the 4 R which had come from nowhere.
Much ribbing and friendly rivalry as we shared same Seniors Mess.
I cannot remember the figure of Flying Hrs when the 4 R appeared but will suggest 300 Hrs a Honest estimate.
Memory says we did our First Lynx Op Banner tour before we started to have 4 R problems.
The cab would be OK pass the electronic monitored Vib runs, Then Bang pilot would come in an complain about a 4 R from nowhere.
4 Regt where already up to their necks in this matter and could offer little serious advice.
The arguments in the maintenance side soon got nasty.
One side said 4 R so must be something that affects All 4 Mr Blades.
However expireance from the men at 4 SUGGESTED that by checking the complete system from Collective to Head you often found a worn linkage and by replace this you reduced or even brought the Vibs in limits.
The Falklands had finished and Lynx deployed down there, taking a unbelievable amount of stores out of the system, That is another story.
4 & 9 amalgamated to form a new 4 Regt with 3 line Sqns.
Blood letting then occurred in Maintenance organization which split the unit down the middle.
The other Regts in BAOR had similar problems on 4 R but someone else will have to make there contribution.
I could never get rid of the 4 R and I will suggest neither could anyone I knew UNLESS they managed to Change, The Main Rotor Gearbox and with all the items in the Falklands supply chain MRGB changes where few and far between.
Start of 86 I went to NI and saw out the 4 1/2 years I had left there.
Same problem but higher priority and availability for spares, especially after Lynx where withdrawn from Falklands and in NI, MRGB where change overnight. Cab in by 18.00 and back 'S' for 08.00 following morning, weather permitting airtest.
I was not involved in the solution but to the best of my knowledge,
SOMEONE at 71 Workshops in German finally put all the reports together and notice that the 4 R only developed over a certain number of Flying Hrs. About lets say 300 Hrs.
Further investigation I assume with Wastelands, led to the discovery that a large diameter spacer in the MRGB was 'Wearing' and then permitting vertical movement.
Replacement of this 'Spacer' cured the Vib.
In NI the OC Wksp arraigned with an engineering company down in Belfast to machine a new spacer to correct dimension after it had been determined on a strip down. This took place overnight and the 18.00 in 08.00 out procedure was accepted policy.
I was not involved in the matter having other duties at the time so all Hearsay, but I understand correct.
john
I have been told by a Little bird that the Lynx supplied to a friendly Mid East power now suffer the dreaded 4 R at 300 + Hrs.
I am not looking for an argument so I will trust what you say on the Tow Fit causing Much of the vibration.
I never fitted a "bonk' but memory says that when fitted you had to 'Strike it Hard' with you fist to assist setting up the first reading , hence the Bonk name.
I stand to be corrected on that.
The Curse of Lynx from early on was the 4 R Vib.
We, 9 Regt shared a hangar with 4 Regt who where the first unit in BAOR to be equipped with the Lynx.
Our new cabs where up and running and the Mechs from 4 Regt, where consistently busy trying to sort out the 4 R which had come from nowhere.
Much ribbing and friendly rivalry as we shared same Seniors Mess.
I cannot remember the figure of Flying Hrs when the 4 R appeared but will suggest 300 Hrs a Honest estimate.
Memory says we did our First Lynx Op Banner tour before we started to have 4 R problems.
The cab would be OK pass the electronic monitored Vib runs, Then Bang pilot would come in an complain about a 4 R from nowhere.
4 Regt where already up to their necks in this matter and could offer little serious advice.
The arguments in the maintenance side soon got nasty.
One side said 4 R so must be something that affects All 4 Mr Blades.
However expireance from the men at 4 SUGGESTED that by checking the complete system from Collective to Head you often found a worn linkage and by replace this you reduced or even brought the Vibs in limits.
The Falklands had finished and Lynx deployed down there, taking a unbelievable amount of stores out of the system, That is another story.
4 & 9 amalgamated to form a new 4 Regt with 3 line Sqns.
Blood letting then occurred in Maintenance organization which split the unit down the middle.
The other Regts in BAOR had similar problems on 4 R but someone else will have to make there contribution.
I could never get rid of the 4 R and I will suggest neither could anyone I knew UNLESS they managed to Change, The Main Rotor Gearbox and with all the items in the Falklands supply chain MRGB changes where few and far between.
Start of 86 I went to NI and saw out the 4 1/2 years I had left there.
Same problem but higher priority and availability for spares, especially after Lynx where withdrawn from Falklands and in NI, MRGB where change overnight. Cab in by 18.00 and back 'S' for 08.00 following morning, weather permitting airtest.
I was not involved in the solution but to the best of my knowledge,
SOMEONE at 71 Workshops in German finally put all the reports together and notice that the 4 R only developed over a certain number of Flying Hrs. About lets say 300 Hrs.
Further investigation I assume with Wastelands, led to the discovery that a large diameter spacer in the MRGB was 'Wearing' and then permitting vertical movement.
Replacement of this 'Spacer' cured the Vib.
In NI the OC Wksp arraigned with an engineering company down in Belfast to machine a new spacer to correct dimension after it had been determined on a strip down. This took place overnight and the 18.00 in 08.00 out procedure was accepted policy.
I was not involved in the matter having other duties at the time so all Hearsay, but I understand correct.
john
I have been told by a Little bird that the Lynx supplied to a friendly Mid East power now suffer the dreaded 4 R at 300 + Hrs.
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Nobody yet has mentioned the fact that between the MK1 and the MK7, Westlands reversed the direction of rotation of the tail rotor...supposedly to reduce vibration also.
Redesigned TRGB's, Bonks, lots of doubler plates, critical shimming of MGB/ MRH (and not all Lynx carry TOW).....sounds like a lot of expensive and unnecessary work if all Westlands had to do was educate the customer in how to track & balance the aircraft properly......in other words, poor maintenance practices wasn't the problem with the Lynx vibes and cracking.
Redesigned TRGB's, Bonks, lots of doubler plates, critical shimming of MGB/ MRH (and not all Lynx carry TOW).....sounds like a lot of expensive and unnecessary work if all Westlands had to do was educate the customer in how to track & balance the aircraft properly......in other words, poor maintenance practices wasn't the problem with the Lynx vibes and cracking.
Last edited by nodrama; 5th Apr 2010 at 11:27.
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Short & Sweet Nodrama and oh so true.
It was known from early on that a MRGB change solved the 4 R vib .
Very expensive way of curing a vibration problem and there where no spare MGRBs.
A great deal of
took place and it still grips with me to this day.
john
It was known from early on that a MRGB change solved the 4 R vib .
Very expensive way of curing a vibration problem and there where no spare MGRBs.
A great deal of
took place and it still grips with me to this day.john
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
Jon,
To be more specific, WHL claimed this was the cause of the vibration and hence were apparently not responsible for the cost of its subsequent fix - as you and I probably know, there were a myriad of reasons why the Lynx vibrated the way it did, and initially a lack of correct knowledge by the REME was undoubtedly a factor when this first became a maintenance problem. Whoever cracked the problem of correctly "shimmed" MRGBs deserved more than he probably got, when you think of the cost of all those endless track and vibe runs it saved.
To be more specific, WHL claimed this was the cause of the vibration and hence were apparently not responsible for the cost of its subsequent fix - as you and I probably know, there were a myriad of reasons why the Lynx vibrated the way it did, and initially a lack of correct knowledge by the REME was undoubtedly a factor when this first became a maintenance problem. Whoever cracked the problem of correctly "shimmed" MRGBs deserved more than he probably got, when you think of the cost of all those endless track and vibe runs it saved.
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Changing the subject slightly...
Anybody out there know if they still use the red/white/blue lynx at Empire Test Pilot School (ETPS), Boscombe Down (can't remember reg).
If not, anyone know what happened to it?
Anybody out there know if they still use the red/white/blue lynx at Empire Test Pilot School (ETPS), Boscombe Down (can't remember reg).
If not, anyone know what happened to it?
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" WHL claimed this was the cause of the vibration"
Two's in
I never knew that Westlands had said this.
In my minds eye they had to know this.
Do you have a fair estimate when this 'Gem' of knowledge was passed on to the shop floor, or Aircraft Branch.
Senior folk had their career ruined by the 4 R saga.
Toward the end of my time at 4 Regt we got a new WO 1, ASM, posted in.
We had been Cpls together many years before. He said to words to the efect that on recieving his Brief for the Job from Senior Aircraft Engineer BAOR, he was told there where only 3 ASM jobs of consequence in BAOR, they being the 3 Anti Tank jobs, eyes from the highest level where watching.
john
"and initially a lack of correct knowledge by the REME was undoubtedly a factor when this first became a maintenance problem."
I'll go to my grave knowing that to be true.
Two's in
I never knew that Westlands had said this.
In my minds eye they had to know this.
Do you have a fair estimate when this 'Gem' of knowledge was passed on to the shop floor, or Aircraft Branch.
Senior folk had their career ruined by the 4 R saga.
Toward the end of my time at 4 Regt we got a new WO 1, ASM, posted in.
We had been Cpls together many years before. He said to words to the efect that on recieving his Brief for the Job from Senior Aircraft Engineer BAOR, he was told there where only 3 ASM jobs of consequence in BAOR, they being the 3 Anti Tank jobs, eyes from the highest level where watching.
john
"and initially a lack of correct knowledge by the REME was undoubtedly a factor when this first became a maintenance problem."
I'll go to my grave knowing that to be true.
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It depends on how you look at “lack of correct knowledge”. Since I’ve left the Army I’ve seen numerous problems with civvi helicopter types that, in my opinion, should have been highlighted and sorted by the manufacturer long before they became an expensive and commercially embarrassing (for the operator) problem. I’ve come to realise that manufacturers don’t admit their design mistakes in a hurry, especially if they’re not life threatening…they’ve got too much to lose in the way of money and reputation. In my mind, that’s what happened with the 4R saga you refer too….the REME were left to struggle on blindly with no guidance and the top level Brass just wanted to see results. “Don’t give me problems, just give me answers!” springs to mind…..it all gets political and scapegoats get their heads chopped to protect the big-boys.
