Today's ridiculous question regarding the Lynx.
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another slant to the original question - Lynx designed to be at optimum attitude during cruise, ie 5 degrees nose down. In this attitude engines(reason why it smokes so much during start & shutdown) & tail are level, so maybe its just old fashioned aerodynamics.
RLHDLW, thank you for your effort shown in your website. I'm surprised that the heli industrie, being all engeneers and scientists, more or less uses commercial names for their rotor head design even in the manuals, adding to the confusion in the rotor head basics.
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In the announcement today on the Lynx upgrade the picture showed a lynx with wheels , while the article talked of the Army . Do the army lynx not have skid gear still ?.
BBC News - Lynx helicopters upgraded for Afghanistan use
BBC News - Lynx helicopters upgraded for Afghanistan use
Lynx helicopters upgraded for Afghanistan use
Lynx helicopters carry a crew of three and up to five passengers
An extra 10 Lynx helicopters are set to be upgraded and used in Afghanistan to support front-line troops, according to the Ministry of Defence.
The aircraft will get more powerful engines, increased firepower and advanced instrumentation.
It comes under a £41.8m contract with AgustaWestland, in Yeovil, Somerset.
Another 12 of the Army Air Corps Lynx, based at Dishforth, North Yorkshire, are now being upgraded with the first deploying to Afghanistan next month.
The helicopter, which carries a crew of three, as well as up to five passengers, will be used to protect convoys, move troops and carry out reconnaissance missions.
The Lynx has been used by British forces in Afghanistan since 2006, however until now the helicopters have only been able to fly during winter months.
Defence Equipment Minister Quentin Davies said the "improved version" of the Lynx helicopter "will greatly benefit our troops in Afghanistan".
He added: "The enhancements will allow it to perform in the extremes of climate and geography that characterise that theatre of operations."
Lynx helicopters carry a crew of three and up to five passengersAn extra 10 Lynx helicopters are set to be upgraded and used in Afghanistan to support front-line troops, according to the Ministry of Defence.
The aircraft will get more powerful engines, increased firepower and advanced instrumentation.
It comes under a £41.8m contract with AgustaWestland, in Yeovil, Somerset.
Another 12 of the Army Air Corps Lynx, based at Dishforth, North Yorkshire, are now being upgraded with the first deploying to Afghanistan next month.
The helicopter, which carries a crew of three, as well as up to five passengers, will be used to protect convoys, move troops and carry out reconnaissance missions.
The Lynx has been used by British forces in Afghanistan since 2006, however until now the helicopters have only been able to fly during winter months.
Defence Equipment Minister Quentin Davies said the "improved version" of the Lynx helicopter "will greatly benefit our troops in Afghanistan".
He added: "The enhancements will allow it to perform in the extremes of climate and geography that characterise that theatre of operations."
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In the announcement today on the Lynx upgrade the picture showed a lynx with wheels , while the article talked of the Army . Do the army lynx not have skid gear still ?.
The army operate all three flavours now, Mk7s, Mk9s and the Mk9As.
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The Lynx AH9 when introduced had a greater MAUM than its predecesor the Lynx AH7.
The rationale explained at the time was the Lynx AH7 skided undercarriage was the limiting factor on the aircraft AUM, the rest of the airframe was capable of greater AUM.
The introduction of the Lynx AH9 incorporated significant reinforcement of the airframe to take the wheeled undercarriage and therefore the airframe could carry the extra AUM.
Ironically a MK7 with no TOW equipment or roof sight has a greater payload than the MK9 when all the reinforcing of the airframe is taken into account in the basic weight.
HEDP
The rationale explained at the time was the Lynx AH7 skided undercarriage was the limiting factor on the aircraft AUM, the rest of the airframe was capable of greater AUM.
The introduction of the Lynx AH9 incorporated significant reinforcement of the airframe to take the wheeled undercarriage and therefore the airframe could carry the extra AUM.
Ironically a MK7 with no TOW equipment or roof sight has a greater payload than the MK9 when all the reinforcing of the airframe is taken into account in the basic weight.
HEDP
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The original Lynx had an almost direct copy of the Tailboom fitted to the Scout/Wasp. External Stringers and all.
However I was assured that La Frog wanted an input and they redesigned the tailboom along Gazelle lines, tho of course without the Fenestron, a pity.
Two Lynx with the original tailboom existed in Aircraft Engineering Training Wing in Middle Wallop early 80's.
The tail assembly was prone to vibration and doubler plates where added around tail rotor gearbox area. Many problems happened with securing 'rivets' Joe bolts and many where replaced.
The vibration moved down to intermediate geabox area and then forward to Tailboom/Main fuselage attachment point, 72 ? bolts.
In early 1990 trebble six (Damian to the ground crew) was found to have a 6 inch vertical crack in the center fuselage skin, about 6 inches forward of the attachment point.
A Navy team form MARTSU came out inspected and Gobsmacked had cab shipped back to UK for repair.
john
However I was assured that La Frog wanted an input and they redesigned the tailboom along Gazelle lines, tho of course without the Fenestron, a pity.
Two Lynx with the original tailboom existed in Aircraft Engineering Training Wing in Middle Wallop early 80's.
The tail assembly was prone to vibration and doubler plates where added around tail rotor gearbox area. Many problems happened with securing 'rivets' Joe bolts and many where replaced.
The vibration moved down to intermediate geabox area and then forward to Tailboom/Main fuselage attachment point, 72 ? bolts.
In early 1990 trebble six (Damian to the ground crew) was found to have a 6 inch vertical crack in the center fuselage skin, about 6 inches forward of the attachment point.
A Navy team form MARTSU came out inspected and Gobsmacked had cab shipped back to UK for repair.
john
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About Lynx vibrations, I remind myself flying at approx 120 Kts and being unable to read accurately the speed due to severe vivrations during the early years of 1980.
In front of such vibrations leading to cracks around the intermediate gear box, the French navy decided to create a track and balance team dedicated to the lynx. Using equipments such as Shadwick, Rotortuner and so on, that team succed in a very short period in a important reduction of vibrations both from the tail rotor and the main one.
This achivement makes me feel that the aircraft concept is not in fault. The vibrations and subsequent cracks came due to an lack of knowledge from the maintenance team. When they got the knowledge, the phenomenon went away.
DO
In front of such vibrations leading to cracks around the intermediate gear box, the French navy decided to create a track and balance team dedicated to the lynx. Using equipments such as Shadwick, Rotortuner and so on, that team succed in a very short period in a important reduction of vibrations both from the tail rotor and the main one.
This achivement makes me feel that the aircraft concept is not in fault. The vibrations and subsequent cracks came due to an lack of knowledge from the maintenance team. When they got the knowledge, the phenomenon went away.
DO
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Memory says much of the tail rotor vibs came from the blade extension arms not having the same amount of 'Grease' in them, the wieght difference causing the vibration.
First IA on recieving reports of TR vibs was to purge all four extension arms and normally this would cure the vib.
"The vibrations and subsequent cracks came due to an lack of knowledge from the maintenance team. When they got the knowledge, the phenomenon went away."
Please believe me it was a painful process
The early 80's where the days of the 3 Sqn Regiment, newly set up and down to be the rapid anti tank attack force if Ivan came.
The bare faced lies that where told by the engineering side to Make aircraft 'S' would even embarrass me.
We found that when doing MR vib check that if pilot placed aircraft in a very shallow dive, then head vibs where much lower and the cab would pass the test.
Not honest but until late 80's no one had the solution to the dreaded 4 R vib, that Lynx developed after say 300 flying hrs.
The lies and Sh1t told to get around that one, from both Engineering and Flying side where legendary as any honest person involved at first line can tell.
john
First IA on recieving reports of TR vibs was to purge all four extension arms and normally this would cure the vib.
"The vibrations and subsequent cracks came due to an lack of knowledge from the maintenance team. When they got the knowledge, the phenomenon went away."
Please believe me it was a painful process
The early 80's where the days of the 3 Sqn Regiment, newly set up and down to be the rapid anti tank attack force if Ivan came.
The bare faced lies that where told by the engineering side to Make aircraft 'S' would even embarrass me.
We found that when doing MR vib check that if pilot placed aircraft in a very shallow dive, then head vibs where much lower and the cab would pass the test.
Not honest but until late 80's no one had the solution to the dreaded 4 R vib, that Lynx developed after say 300 flying hrs.
The lies and Sh1t told to get around that one, from both Engineering and Flying side where legendary as any honest person involved at first line can tell.
john
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Morning Dave
Not News, all old stuff.
Sqn OCs and the CO where all screaming for 'S' cabs for the major exercises to prove the new CinC BAOR concept of Lynx Strike Force, pilot himself memory says.
Everyone knew what was going on. Well the REME hireriky did when not back stabbing each other.
All results from Vib runs had to go back to 71 Wksp 300 mtrs next door. The system could take weeks to make the delivery by which time one was deployed and for operational reasons Vib runs got ER Deferred /Forgotten until return to base.
The vertical crack in 666 was something No one I knew, had ever seen and that includes my short meeting with the Experts (and they where) in airframe repair from MARTSU, they thought they had been called out by the muppets.
john
Look after the Rozzers.
Not News, all old stuff.
Sqn OCs and the CO where all screaming for 'S' cabs for the major exercises to prove the new CinC BAOR concept of Lynx Strike Force, pilot himself memory says.
Everyone knew what was going on. Well the REME hireriky did when not back stabbing each other.
All results from Vib runs had to go back to 71 Wksp 300 mtrs next door. The system could take weeks to make the delivery by which time one was deployed and for operational reasons Vib runs got ER Deferred /Forgotten until return to base.
The vertical crack in 666 was something No one I knew, had ever seen and that includes my short meeting with the Experts (and they where) in airframe repair from MARTSU, they thought they had been called out by the muppets.
john
Look after the Rozzers.
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As regards to the tailboom all I remember is it being covered in bloody oil from the engines resulting in " The endurance of the aircraft may not be due to fuel"
Someone came along one day and stuffed a block on top of the head which brought the vibration down a bit, I remember seeing one fitted to a Lynx in Detmold.
Someone came along one day and stuffed a block on top of the head which brought the vibration down a bit, I remember seeing one fitted to a Lynx in Detmold.
Originally Posted by CyclicRick
Someone came along one day and stuffed a block on top of the head which brought the vibration down a bit, I remember seeing one fitted to a Lynx in Detmold.
Just reading this thread is making my knees buzz.
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The link is a short video of the 1st test flight of the AW159. Interestingly, unless it is just fitted for prototype vibe analysis, this 'new' Lynx has a Bonk fitted too.
If the final version has a Bonk fitted.....that's all your theories about poor tracking & balance procedures out of the window.
Aviation Video: AgustaWestland AW-159 "Lynx Wildcat " | Patrick's Aviation
If the final version has a Bonk fitted.....that's all your theories about poor tracking & balance procedures out of the window.
Aviation Video: AgustaWestland AW-159 "Lynx Wildcat " | Patrick's Aviation
I was never convinced by the 'bonk' on the Lynx because it was only optimised for one Nr and one stage of flight (cruise flight IIRC) which was not much use for hovering where the vibration was often worse because of the higher pitch settings. The bonks were leftovers from the appalling WG30 or so it was rumoured.
All AW manufactured helos vibrate and leak, why should the Wildcat be any different?
The undercarriage on the new wonderlynx doesn't look very dust-landing friendly - I won't be surprised when the first one is rolled over on an operational landing - not the first aircraft with a high C of G and a narrow undercarriage to suffer this problem - dynamic rollover anyone?
All AW manufactured helos vibrate and leak, why should the Wildcat be any different?
The undercarriage on the new wonderlynx doesn't look very dust-landing friendly - I won't be surprised when the first one is rolled over on an operational landing - not the first aircraft with a high C of G and a narrow undercarriage to suffer this problem - dynamic rollover anyone?
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John,
If nothing else the rear oleo's in the clip look as if they would snap in any sort of zero/zero landing let alone dust!
Is it just me or does there appear to be a moderate degree of overcontrolling going on or perhaps more relevantly FCS hunting?
HEDP
If nothing else the rear oleo's in the clip look as if they would snap in any sort of zero/zero landing let alone dust!
Is it just me or does there appear to be a moderate degree of overcontrolling going on or perhaps more relevantly FCS hunting?
HEDP
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The main undercarriage on the clips looks to have the same width as the old one version and I never heard of dynamic rollover with that undercarriage. In other hand, very impresive crash control capabilities for night landing on small rolling deck.
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
THAT'S HOW ACQUISITION WORKS # 27:
When the relevant authorities became sufficiently engaged with the Lynx vibration and tailboom cracking problems in the late 80's, they paid for a Design Authority investigation by WHL. After a lengthy investigation, the underlying reason for the unpredicted vibration and cracking problems was traced back to the fitment of the TOW Booms and equipment that were introduced under a mod to provide the ATGW capability, shortly after introduction to service. So the very DA that designed, implemented, and fitted the TOW mod to the Lynx was able to point at it 10 years down the road and subsequently lay the responsibility for all the vibration problems squarely at its door, because it was an MoD requirement to fit TOW. Nice work if you can get it....
When the relevant authorities became sufficiently engaged with the Lynx vibration and tailboom cracking problems in the late 80's, they paid for a Design Authority investigation by WHL. After a lengthy investigation, the underlying reason for the unpredicted vibration and cracking problems was traced back to the fitment of the TOW Booms and equipment that were introduced under a mod to provide the ATGW capability, shortly after introduction to service. So the very DA that designed, implemented, and fitted the TOW mod to the Lynx was able to point at it 10 years down the road and subsequently lay the responsibility for all the vibration problems squarely at its door, because it was an MoD requirement to fit TOW. Nice work if you can get it....