NH-90 problems
Hadn't been on in awhile and surprised the news wasn't on here, "The Royal Australian Navy’s 808SQN based at HMAS Albatross near Nowra will soon replace its Airbus MRH 90 helicopters with a new utility helicopter." ,
Looks like either more MH-60R's with quick fit interiors or MH-60S's.
MRH's will be transferred to the Army, But Army is looking at possible MRH replacement instead of midlife upgrade.
Looks like either more MH-60R's with quick fit interiors or MH-60S's.
MRH's will be transferred to the Army, But Army is looking at possible MRH replacement instead of midlife upgrade.
Thread Starter
https://www.brusselstimes.com/all-ne...lf-over-costs/
The NH-90 TTH used by the Belgian services. © AirbusThe defence ministry has ordered the number of flights by four transport helicopters to be cut in half because the aircraft are too expensive to maintain, the VRT reports.
The four NH-90 helicopters in the TTH or tactical troop helicopter version were bought by the government five years ago for €30 million each. The helicopter is approved by NATO, and constructed by the NHIndustries partnership made up of Airbus Helicopters, Leonardo Helicopters and Fokker Aerostructures.
However the defence ministry under Philippe Goffin (MR) has found that one hour of flight of the NH-90 costs no less than €12,000. And the aircraft break down so often the services do not have enough personnel to keep them flight-worthy.The hourly cost is more than double the €5,000 an hour it cost to run the NH-90’s predecessor, the Sea King. Belgium’s last three Sea Kings were decommissioned in 2019 after 40 years of service.
The ministry has now decided to cut the number of hours the helicopters are in the air from the previous target of 1,000 hours to 600. It will also commission a study to look at what might be done with the helicopters to obtain the optimum value for the cost. One option, the VRT reports, would be to get rid of them altogether.
The cut in hours does not, however, affect the four NH-90s in service with the navy, which are an adapted version of the transport aircraft. Those helicopters are used for air-sea rescue operations from the base at Koksijde, and will continue to operate as before.
The problems with the NH-90s are not new. In 2018 three of the four air-sea rescue craft had to be returned to NHIndustries for repairs to the radar systems, leaving only one in service. When that one also had to be grounded for servicing, Belgium’s neighbours temporarily had to step in to ensure a rescue service in Belgian waters.Alan Hope
Copyright © 2019 The Brussels Times. All Rights Reserved.
- Defence ministry cuts helicopter flights in half over costs
The NH-90 TTH used by the Belgian services. © AirbusThe defence ministry has ordered the number of flights by four transport helicopters to be cut in half because the aircraft are too expensive to maintain, the VRT reports.
The four NH-90 helicopters in the TTH or tactical troop helicopter version were bought by the government five years ago for €30 million each. The helicopter is approved by NATO, and constructed by the NHIndustries partnership made up of Airbus Helicopters, Leonardo Helicopters and Fokker Aerostructures.
However the defence ministry under Philippe Goffin (MR) has found that one hour of flight of the NH-90 costs no less than €12,000. And the aircraft break down so often the services do not have enough personnel to keep them flight-worthy.The hourly cost is more than double the €5,000 an hour it cost to run the NH-90’s predecessor, the Sea King. Belgium’s last three Sea Kings were decommissioned in 2019 after 40 years of service.
The ministry has now decided to cut the number of hours the helicopters are in the air from the previous target of 1,000 hours to 600. It will also commission a study to look at what might be done with the helicopters to obtain the optimum value for the cost. One option, the VRT reports, would be to get rid of them altogether.
The cut in hours does not, however, affect the four NH-90s in service with the navy, which are an adapted version of the transport aircraft. Those helicopters are used for air-sea rescue operations from the base at Koksijde, and will continue to operate as before.
The problems with the NH-90s are not new. In 2018 three of the four air-sea rescue craft had to be returned to NHIndustries for repairs to the radar systems, leaving only one in service. When that one also had to be grounded for servicing, Belgium’s neighbours temporarily had to step in to ensure a rescue service in Belgian waters.Alan Hope
Copyright © 2019 The Brussels Times. All Rights Reserved.
France signs up for NH90 TTH Special Forces and Spanish AIr Force receives First
Cannot be all that bad ...As it happens France have signed up for NH90TTh Special Forces to be delivered in 2025 timeline...
https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/pres...al-forces.html
Anyhow I know it’s been in country and flying around for. While but officially Spanish Air Force have taken delivery of it’s First NH90 replacing the AS332M Super Puma at Cuatro Vientos.
https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/pres...-missions.html
cheers
https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/pres...al-forces.html
Anyhow I know it’s been in country and flying around for. While but officially Spanish Air Force have taken delivery of it’s First NH90 replacing the AS332M Super Puma at Cuatro Vientos.
https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/pres...-missions.html
cheers
Last edited by chopper2004; 14th Oct 2020 at 20:20.
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https://www.canberratimes.com.au/sto...r-flaw/OCTOBER 28 2020 - 12:00AM
Federal Politics
An Australian Army MRH-90 Taipan helicopter. Picture: Department of DefenceSenior military and defence department figures have confirmed a major design flaw with a Howard-era fleet of helicopters totalling nearly $3.8 billion has limited its operational capability even after attempted fixes.
Chief of Army Lieutenant General Richard Burr appeared before a Senate estimates committee on Tuesday morning and admitted the 47-strong fleet of MRH-90 Taipan helicopters suffered from a door flaw that limited its suitability for certain operations.
Upon questioning by Labor Senator Tim Ayres, General Burr confirmed the helicopter's design flaw meant that simultaneous suppression fire from a side mount gun while troops were rappelling was not possible.
General Burr said there had been "tactical workarounds" for mitigating the limitation but the Airbus-manufactured fleet would need to undergo a third round of adjustments to rectify the problem.
The workaround requires a second supporting helicopter to perform suppressive fire while the first helicopter allows its troops to rappel.
The committee heard Defence had initially replaced the original gun mount with a second one but it could not fit the preferred weapon, a minigun, or allow firing while troops rappelling. A third adjustment has been procured by Airbus Australia at the tune of $21.9 million.
First assistant secretary Shane Fairweather later confirmed it was the size of the door that was root of the problem.
"It's an issue of the width of the door," Mr Fairweather said.
"The door isn't wide enough to be able to exit safely while firing is taking place."
The third gun mount would minimise the time at which the firing couldn't take place but still wouldn't allow for simultaneous firing and rappelling. Mr Fairweather added it was "physically a limit of the door width" with the MRH-90 fleet.
The committee separately heard a tail rotor fault, which required the MRH-90 fleet to remain grounded for some of last year while it was modified, was the reason the fleet had only completed half of its expected flying hours.
Mr Fairweather explained it was an issue that affected a number of other nations as well.
READ MORE:
Defence minister Linda Reynolds said she and the Minister for Defence Industry Melissa Price had undertaken talks with Airbus in order to find a solution to the chopper's issues.
"I'm very, very aware of the issues that have plagued that part of this capability, which is why Melissa Price and I have met more than once with Airbus and with their CEO in relation to remediation of this project," Minister Reynolds said.
"We continue to monitor the project, very carefully with Airbus and with Defence."
Chief of Defence General Angus Campbell rushed to the defence of the MRH-90 fleet, describing it as "extraordinarily advanced".
"The MRH 90 is an extraordinarily advanced helicopter and it does do things that no other helicopter on the planet can do," General Campbell said.
"There is no perfect helicopter, there's no perfect machine or person and it is a matter of understanding how to fly that helicopter.
"You're quite right, there is an issue with the door guns. We know it. We're working on it."
'The door isn't wide enough': Defence heads admit the MRH-90 helicopter fleet has a major flaw
Federal Politics
An Australian Army MRH-90 Taipan helicopter. Picture: Department of DefenceSenior military and defence department figures have confirmed a major design flaw with a Howard-era fleet of helicopters totalling nearly $3.8 billion has limited its operational capability even after attempted fixes.Chief of Army Lieutenant General Richard Burr appeared before a Senate estimates committee on Tuesday morning and admitted the 47-strong fleet of MRH-90 Taipan helicopters suffered from a door flaw that limited its suitability for certain operations.
Upon questioning by Labor Senator Tim Ayres, General Burr confirmed the helicopter's design flaw meant that simultaneous suppression fire from a side mount gun while troops were rappelling was not possible.
General Burr said there had been "tactical workarounds" for mitigating the limitation but the Airbus-manufactured fleet would need to undergo a third round of adjustments to rectify the problem.
The workaround requires a second supporting helicopter to perform suppressive fire while the first helicopter allows its troops to rappel.
The committee heard Defence had initially replaced the original gun mount with a second one but it could not fit the preferred weapon, a minigun, or allow firing while troops rappelling. A third adjustment has been procured by Airbus Australia at the tune of $21.9 million.
First assistant secretary Shane Fairweather later confirmed it was the size of the door that was root of the problem.
"It's an issue of the width of the door," Mr Fairweather said.
"The door isn't wide enough to be able to exit safely while firing is taking place."
The third gun mount would minimise the time at which the firing couldn't take place but still wouldn't allow for simultaneous firing and rappelling. Mr Fairweather added it was "physically a limit of the door width" with the MRH-90 fleet.
The committee separately heard a tail rotor fault, which required the MRH-90 fleet to remain grounded for some of last year while it was modified, was the reason the fleet had only completed half of its expected flying hours.
Mr Fairweather explained it was an issue that affected a number of other nations as well.
READ MORE:
- HMAS Albatross MRH-90 helicopters grounded
- How a landing light from a Defence MRH-90 Taipan helicopter sparked the Orroral Valley fire
Defence minister Linda Reynolds said she and the Minister for Defence Industry Melissa Price had undertaken talks with Airbus in order to find a solution to the chopper's issues.
"I'm very, very aware of the issues that have plagued that part of this capability, which is why Melissa Price and I have met more than once with Airbus and with their CEO in relation to remediation of this project," Minister Reynolds said.
"We continue to monitor the project, very carefully with Airbus and with Defence."
Chief of Defence General Angus Campbell rushed to the defence of the MRH-90 fleet, describing it as "extraordinarily advanced".
"The MRH 90 is an extraordinarily advanced helicopter and it does do things that no other helicopter on the planet can do," General Campbell said.
"There is no perfect helicopter, there's no perfect machine or person and it is a matter of understanding how to fly that helicopter.
"You're quite right, there is an issue with the door guns. We know it. We're working on it."
Norwegian concerns
Norwegian Coast Guard have concerns already so they are looking at leasing out a/c to fill in the shortfall.
https://www.flightglobal.com/helicop...SJs-H-z_oiDo6w
https://www.flightglobal.com/helicop...SJs-H-z_oiDo6w
Chief of Defence General Angus Campbell rushed to the defence of the MRH-90 fleet, describing it as "extraordinarily advanced".
"The MRH 90 is an extraordinarily advanced helicopter and it does do things that no other helicopter on the planet can do," General Campbell said.
"The MRH 90 is an extraordinarily advanced helicopter and it does do things that no other helicopter on the planet can do," General Campbell said.
Thread Starter
https://forsvaretsforum.no/forsvarss...or-nh90/193785
I just did a couple of quick calculations. Roughly $61.5M USD EACH. Original deliveries scheduled for 2005-2008 were years behind schedule, and now the annual fleet operational utilization plan has dropped from 5000 hours to 2100, and they are planning on leasing additional (Non NH-90) assets to make up the shortfall.
Does any other helicopter have such a continued poor performance record, and yet gets bought by the dozen by militaries (Politicians) all over the World? It is an astonishing demonstration of failure, and a major threat to the defence capabilities of any country engaged in their acquisition.
PUBLISHED Wednesday 14 April 2021 - 06:55 LAST UPDATED Wednesday 14 April 2021 - 08:48On Tuesday 13 April, General Eirik Kristofferen presented the Armed Forces 'annual report for 2020. It shows that the Armed Forces' operational capability increased somewhat during last year, including the phasing in of new materiel.
But the challenges associated with the NH90 helicopters continue, according to the Chief of Defense.
- This is the last annual report in a long-term plan period. If we look over the last four years, NH90 has not delivered in accordance with the objective, neither in flight hours nor availability for coastguards and frigates, Kristoffersen says to the Armed Forces forum.
The ambition level is now at 2100 hours.
- Now we are not even there, says the Chief of Defense and points out that the Armed Forces is not on target with flight time even with an ever lower level of ambition.
- It is serious and a challenge we must continue to work on, says Kristoffersen after the presentation of the annual report.
ANNUAL REPORT: Chief of Defense Eirik Kristoffersen and Minister of Defense Frank Bakke-Jensen during the presentation of the annual report. Photo: Torbjørn Kjosvold / The Armed Forces
Kristoffersen points out that NH90 is an important part of the anti-submarine capacity of the frigates.
- It is serious that we do not yet have operational NH90 on board the frigates - it also means that the frigates are not fully operational either. It was due to the anti-submarine capacity that we went to procure such an advanced helicopter as the NH90, says Kristoffersen.
The Chief of Defense will therefore prioritize getting this in place first. With regard to the Coast Guard, the Armed Forces is looking at other solutions, including the use of drones and the hiring of helicopters.
- We will investigate whether there are alternatives. We are a nation with great expertise in, among other things, search and rescue. Then we will see if some of the tasks to be performed by NH90 can be done by other capacities, says Minister of Defense Frank Bakke-Jensen.
- We must look at alternative solutions for the Coast Guard, such as hiring civilian helicopters. The Minister of Defense and I completely agree, says Eirik Kristoffersen.
- How fast should it get in place?
- The challenge now is that the Coast Guard spends so much time integrating NH90 that it spends some of the sailing time in open waters. Therefore, this solution should preferably be in place already.
Read also: The pandemic has cost the Armed Forces 348 million
- Do you have any faith that you will be able to reach an ambition level (with flight time) that is good enough with NH90 or do you have to look for other permanent solutions?
- I still believe that the NH90 can fly. I know NH90 from the Finnish special forces that have used them. It is a very good helicopter when it works. There are complex reasons why we have not reached the number of flight hours with NH90, but that does not mean that I have lost faith in it.
According to Forsvarsmateriell, the acquisition of 14 NH90s has a cost framework of NOK 7.2 billion. And the helicopters were scheduled to be delivered between 2005-08.
- The need for more flight time is here now. How and how fast are you going to find solutions to close those gaps in terms of flight time?
- I do not want to speculate on how long it will take. There are questions the report will find answers to, and I think it will be possible to find good answers to such questions, says Bakke-Jensen.
I just did a couple of quick calculations. Roughly $61.5M USD EACH. Original deliveries scheduled for 2005-2008 were years behind schedule, and now the annual fleet operational utilization plan has dropped from 5000 hours to 2100, and they are planning on leasing additional (Non NH-90) assets to make up the shortfall.
Does any other helicopter have such a continued poor performance record, and yet gets bought by the dozen by militaries (Politicians) all over the World? It is an astonishing demonstration of failure, and a major threat to the defence capabilities of any country engaged in their acquisition.
Has halved the level of ambition for NH90
- NH90 not delivered in accordance with the objective neither on flight hours nor accessibility for the coast guard and frigates, says Chief of Defense Eirik Kristoffersen.
[email protected][email protected]PUBLISHED Wednesday 14 April 2021 - 06:55 LAST UPDATED Wednesday 14 April 2021 - 08:48On Tuesday 13 April, General Eirik Kristofferen presented the Armed Forces 'annual report for 2020. It shows that the Armed Forces' operational capability increased somewhat during last year, including the phasing in of new materiel.
Tip us:
Do you have tips or suggestions for this or other issues? Send us an e-mail at: [email protected] or contact one of the journalists directly .But the challenges associated with the NH90 helicopters continue, according to the Chief of Defense.
- This is the last annual report in a long-term plan period. If we look over the last four years, NH90 has not delivered in accordance with the objective, neither in flight hours nor availability for coastguards and frigates, Kristoffersen says to the Armed Forces forum.
Still lower goals
The Armed Forces' operational needs were over 5,000 flight hours with NH90.The ambition level is now at 2100 hours.
- Now we are not even there, says the Chief of Defense and points out that the Armed Forces is not on target with flight time even with an ever lower level of ambition.
- It is serious and a challenge we must continue to work on, says Kristoffersen after the presentation of the annual report.
ANNUAL REPORT: Chief of Defense Eirik Kristoffersen and Minister of Defense Frank Bakke-Jensen during the presentation of the annual report. Photo: Torbjørn Kjosvold / The Armed ForcesHelicopter rental
Also read:The government will lease helicopters to the Armed Forces
NH90 does not fly enough and the factories struggle to deliver both helicopters and spare parts.Kristoffersen points out that NH90 is an important part of the anti-submarine capacity of the frigates.
- It is serious that we do not yet have operational NH90 on board the frigates - it also means that the frigates are not fully operational either. It was due to the anti-submarine capacity that we went to procure such an advanced helicopter as the NH90, says Kristoffersen.
The Chief of Defense will therefore prioritize getting this in place first. With regard to the Coast Guard, the Armed Forces is looking at other solutions, including the use of drones and the hiring of helicopters.
- We will investigate whether there are alternatives. We are a nation with great expertise in, among other things, search and rescue. Then we will see if some of the tasks to be performed by NH90 can be done by other capacities, says Minister of Defense Frank Bakke-Jensen.
Delays
One of the reasons why they are investigating alternatives to NH90 is due to delays and reduced availability of spare parts due to Covid-19.- We must look at alternative solutions for the Coast Guard, such as hiring civilian helicopters. The Minister of Defense and I completely agree, says Eirik Kristoffersen.
- How fast should it get in place?
- The challenge now is that the Coast Guard spends so much time integrating NH90 that it spends some of the sailing time in open waters. Therefore, this solution should preferably be in place already.
Read also: The pandemic has cost the Armed Forces 348 million
- Do you have any faith that you will be able to reach an ambition level (with flight time) that is good enough with NH90 or do you have to look for other permanent solutions?
- I still believe that the NH90 can fly. I know NH90 from the Finnish special forces that have used them. It is a very good helicopter when it works. There are complex reasons why we have not reached the number of flight hours with NH90, but that does not mean that I have lost faith in it.
- Must find an answer
Minister of Defense Frank Bakke-Jensen says that the NH90 project is progressing slowly, but that he has not lost faith in the project either.According to Forsvarsmateriell, the acquisition of 14 NH90s has a cost framework of NOK 7.2 billion. And the helicopters were scheduled to be delivered between 2005-08.
- The need for more flight time is here now. How and how fast are you going to find solutions to close those gaps in terms of flight time?
- I do not want to speculate on how long it will take. There are questions the report will find answers to, and I think it will be possible to find good answers to such questions, says Bakke-Jensen.
Upon questioning by Labor Senator Tim Ayres, General Burr confirmed the helicopter's design flaw meant that simultaneous suppression fire from a side mount gun while troops were rappelling was not possible
All the years of hard won combat experience with the D and H model Hueys in Vietnam were all for nought, unimpeded access to the cabin for the troops and the gunners having unimpeded ability to lay down fire. Trouble was the personnel in Oz with the experience were not retained by the services.
Thread Starter
https://www.australiandefence.com.au...nt-competition
The Germans appear to differ from your understanding of events for BOTH the NH90 and the Tiger. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...ady-for-combat
The Germans appear to differ from your understanding of events for BOTH the NH90 and the Tiger. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...ady-for-combat
Germany blames Airbus for the helicopters' low availability, but it is the latest example of the country's general continuing readiness woes.
especially the part after “but”... so is it really ONLY the manufacturers fault? Or a more general issue within some militaries on a budget like: ordering as much helicopters as possible for the given budget, but forgetting that these systems mostly require maintenance and spare parts? Maybe order them in reasonable quantities as well? It is always easy to blame a manufacturer, does not matter if it is in this case Airbus, or for example Lockheed for a JSF, but there is always a “backstory.
The Germans appear to differ from your understanding of events for BOTH the NH90 and the Tiger. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...ady-for-combat
Germany blames Airbus for the helicopters' low availability, but it is the latest example of the country's general continuing readiness woes.
especially the part after “but”... so is it really ONLY the manufacturers fault? Or a more general issue within some militaries on a budget like: ordering as much aircraft as possible for the given budget, but forgetting that these systems mostly require maintenance and spare parts? Maybe order those in reasonable quantities as well? It is always easy to blame a manufacturer (not that they don’t play a part as well...), does not matter if it is in this case Airbus, or for example Lockheed for a JSF, but there is always a “backstory.
Last edited by casper64; 23rd Apr 2021 at 18:04.
Meanwhile, in Mali, it’s been in operational service for the last 6 years: https://www-helis-com.cdn.ampproject.../sahel-nh90-6/
Thread Starter
This is an excellent question, Ned. Without comparing all the KPI's it's hard to assess any of it, but if an operator is succeeding when most others appear to be failing, that is surely critical information for every operator to analyze and incorporate into their programme. Included in that equation must be adequate budget and resources to support and operate the fleet, as quite rightly noted above.
Included in that equation must be adequate budget and resources to support and operate the fleet,
