UK Police helicopter budget cuts
Nit picking on some of the items quoted from 'the 2009 report' that the Oracle article seems use as the basis [i.e. excuse] for this whole NPAS project highlights some inaccurate claims about the units not working together.
Before last October ..... seven identical EC135P2+ helicopters were bought .... and there was another group led by West Yorkshire looking at a further 'identical group' purchase when the plug was pulled. These were just the big purchases there are others.
There were a number of consortia operating very efficiently at the time of the October 2010 launch and some of those were working with other groups to cover regions in the same way as it is suggested NPAS will work. The ones that spring to mind are Eastern, North West, Midlands and Yorkshire. Each worked together in varying degrees - it was an ongoing cooperative and progressive endeavour – and from what I understand most of it stopped quite abruptly last October.
Yes there are flaws - mainly surrounding the different values where some units flew 1200 hours a year and others dawdled at 5-600 hours - but they do not make the whole barrel rotten.
So NPAS appears to be built upon a pretty basic set of lies.
Before last October ..... seven identical EC135P2+ helicopters were bought .... and there was another group led by West Yorkshire looking at a further 'identical group' purchase when the plug was pulled. These were just the big purchases there are others.
There were a number of consortia operating very efficiently at the time of the October 2010 launch and some of those were working with other groups to cover regions in the same way as it is suggested NPAS will work. The ones that spring to mind are Eastern, North West, Midlands and Yorkshire. Each worked together in varying degrees - it was an ongoing cooperative and progressive endeavour – and from what I understand most of it stopped quite abruptly last October.
Yes there are flaws - mainly surrounding the different values where some units flew 1200 hours a year and others dawdled at 5-600 hours - but they do not make the whole barrel rotten.
So NPAS appears to be built upon a pretty basic set of lies.
Last edited by PANews; 15th Jun 2011 at 17:40. Reason: typo
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As a result, they were not benefiting from economies of scale in terms of maintenance, pilots or procurement.
This is how it will be, based on a typical unit...
Maintenance - ECUK
Pilotage - NPAS
Helmets - Alpha
Aircraft - ECUK
Flying Suits - Ballyclare
Boots - Dickies Industrial
Gloves - RAF
T- Shirts - Fruit of the Loom
Jackets / Fleeces - North Face
Torches - Ever Ready
NVGs - DO Systems
Mappage - Transair
Publications - Jeppson
Stationary - Staples
Recording media - PC World
Photographic Eqpt - Nikon
Fuel - Esso
Computers/IT support - Apple
Mobile phones - Nokia
News gathering - Sky
Kitchen facilities - B&Q
Furniture - Leather Land
Cleaning Service - Mrs Mopps Agency
Delivery Service - DHL
Water Fountains - Aquarius
....unless you know differently !
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What a load of claptrap
How can people (who know what they're talking about) read this article with anything other than an incredulous sigh? All quotes from the article . . .
Just for starters, what does he think Thames Valley have been doing since they started; & Cambridge, Essex & Suffolk have all been leaping into each others counties for years. The problems of these operations have always been that, covering another county/area, reduces cover in the original host county and, due to increased transit times (as Art mentions), the service provided is invariably LESS efficient &/or effective!
How is one (or possibly two) central control room(s) "organising services regionally"? IMO "regional" should be no larger than Northern, Borders & Scotland, Wales, Midlands/Thames, Southwestern, Southern, Southeastern - roughly equating to about 6 counties &, maybe, average 3 aircraft per region, I'd suggest?
How can you "deliver services locally" when you take 30 mins to get there?
So the proposal is to move a number of bases, expensively, and without prior consulation, allowing the proposed new location to set the revenue agenda, rather than NPAS.
The only balance being proposed appears to be that of a cockroach on one end of a see-saw, with an elephant on the other!! (no offence intended to the Elephant!)
"locally based" - not for many. "reduce flying times" - impossible to believe. "appropriate response" - unlikley.
What a load of b
s - transit times will increase & at least 75% of jobs will see any aircraft arriving later than it should, to offer effective support, anyway. True that some areas will, theoretically, be served by a faster response, but only from base if the aircraft is not on another job 30 mins away!
How does this square with
??
completely defeating any issue of localism, as all requests for attendance at Emergency Services promotion days, fairs, schools etc will no doubt be refused, despite the inestimable value they offer to the "local" community, whilst remaining available for tasking at all times. 
The old mantra, "lies, damned lies & statistics", should be changed to "spin, damned lies & statistics" - this is a good example, with all of them poorly presented, IMHO!
In 2009 a review of these functions found that the 31 air support units were all operated independently of one another.
The new Service will be owned nationally, organised regionally and delivered locally.
How can you "deliver services locally" when you take 30 mins to get there?
However, moving bases would be an expensive option – so the basing model developed takes into account current bases and balances the need to have locally based aircraft suitably positioned to reduce flying times and to provide an appropriate response . . .
The only balance being proposed appears to be that of a cockroach on one end of a see-saw, with an elephant on the other!! (no offence intended to the Elephant!)
"locally based" - not for many. "reduce flying times" - impossible to believe. "appropriate response" - unlikley.
This will reduce the transit time from the base to the incident resulting in a greater time on task for the aircraft.
s - transit times will increase & at least 75% of jobs will see any aircraft arriving later than it should, to offer effective support, anyway. True that some areas will, theoretically, be served by a faster response, but only from base if the aircraft is not on another job 30 mins away!
essential to have a national dispatch function
organised regionally and delivered locally
pre-planned events will be managed through a Tasking and Coordination Group process
The old mantra, "lies, damned lies & statistics", should be changed to "spin, damned lies & statistics" - this is a good example, with all of them poorly presented, IMHO!
I believe that CC Hampshire Alex Marshall should be warmly congratulated on his well presented and well thought through article given exclusively to Police Oracle to reach the widest possible non-aviation police audience.
Until he wrote that item it is fair to say that the wider understanding of the UK police aviation community in relation to what NPAS meant was somewhat in the doldrums and uninformed. The result of that void was that this thread was often grasping at straws and liable to drop off the front pages of Pprune for long periods, usually by way of utter boredon with the subject.
Since then of course that situation has changed .... perhaps forever... a White Star Line moment perhaps.
Until he wrote that item it is fair to say that the wider understanding of the UK police aviation community in relation to what NPAS meant was somewhat in the doldrums and uninformed. The result of that void was that this thread was often grasping at straws and liable to drop off the front pages of Pprune for long periods, usually by way of utter boredon with the subject.
Since then of course that situation has changed .... perhaps forever... a White Star Line moment perhaps.
I never understood the concept of the Mobile Police Station either. Let alone the regular instances where the local Plod would hold a meeting with the people at a given time and place. Surely both instances amounted to a statement that said that the otherwise rare and inaccessible local police were in a specific spot in town so it was safe to go and rob the other places.
If you get a 7 days producer [HO/RT/1] for your documents do you get a dispensation to await the monthly mobile police wagon? Guess not.
The local cop shop here is up for closure - they want to move the staff into the Fire Station down the road. After the usual disjointed discussions they suddenly found that the fire station also wanted to close. Ooooer, that wasn't planned!
Anyway there has been a reprieve this month, they suddenly decided that the might need the pretty [and damned expensive] aerials and recently upgraded digi radio shack in the cop shop yard for the Olympics...... Olympics? Good lord that was a surprise event foisted on them.
So Essex Constabulary will be looking at the closure again in August 2012, if they remember.
OK. Nothing to do with aeronautics, but it does show that there is an awful lot of it about. "Poor planning and not joined up."
It must be the name of a Senior Officers Command Course.
If you get a 7 days producer [HO/RT/1] for your documents do you get a dispensation to await the monthly mobile police wagon? Guess not.
The local cop shop here is up for closure - they want to move the staff into the Fire Station down the road. After the usual disjointed discussions they suddenly found that the fire station also wanted to close. Ooooer, that wasn't planned!
Anyway there has been a reprieve this month, they suddenly decided that the might need the pretty [and damned expensive] aerials and recently upgraded digi radio shack in the cop shop yard for the Olympics...... Olympics? Good lord that was a surprise event foisted on them.
So Essex Constabulary will be looking at the closure again in August 2012, if they remember.
OK. Nothing to do with aeronautics, but it does show that there is an awful lot of it about. "Poor planning and not joined up."
It must be the name of a Senior Officers Command Course.
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Lets hope the NW lot are hidden away safe because i'm sure it won't belong before the crimes start having a look at where there bases are. But these days they don't have to turn up and do some surveillance to see when they start or finish. They can just sit in their stolen audis looking at what ASU's are doing on twitter with there stolen internet phones.
ASU's really don't help themselves do they.
ASU's really don't help themselves do they.
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BUDGIE;
Or simply read the papers, type 'Police Helicopter Bases' into google, call their local police station, and ask or even use the Freedom of Information Act etc etc
Tw@tter entries for example, are done after an ac has returned to its relevant base and sometimes the day or 2 after, so any information gained is old hat and depends on what the crims are doing anyway. (With the cost savings going on its all reactive work anyway) Find me an entry that says, will be deploying after 'The Apprentice' to the Red Lion pub hoping to catch lead thieves! The only way a crim will know where the aircraft will be is to be involved with something that requires the presence of the helicopter
NO! They can see what ASU's have done !
If that's not the case BUDGIE, and you are able to foretell what an ASU is doing by tw@tter et al, can you please tell me what I will be doing next Friday as I was thinking of taking my knitting in and finishing off that scarf!
But these days they don't have to turn up and do some surveillance to see when they start or finish. They can just sit in their stolen audis looking at what ASU's are doing on tw@tter with there stolen internet phones.
ASU's really don't help themselves do they.
ASU's really don't help themselves do they.
Or simply read the papers, type 'Police Helicopter Bases' into google, call their local police station, and ask or even use the Freedom of Information Act etc etc
Tw@tter entries for example, are done after an ac has returned to its relevant base and sometimes the day or 2 after, so any information gained is old hat and depends on what the crims are doing anyway. (With the cost savings going on its all reactive work anyway) Find me an entry that says, will be deploying after 'The Apprentice' to the Red Lion pub hoping to catch lead thieves! The only way a crim will know where the aircraft will be is to be involved with something that requires the presence of the helicopter
They can just sit in their stolen audis looking at what ASU's are doing on tw@tter with there stolen internet phones.
If that's not the case BUDGIE, and you are able to foretell what an ASU is doing by tw@tter et al, can you please tell me what I will be doing next Friday as I was thinking of taking my knitting in and finishing off that scarf!
Last edited by SilsoeSid; 17th Jun 2011 at 10:19. Reason: twtter spelt properly, automatically changes to PPRUNE
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Whilst flying a night shift I had what could only be described as a NPAS night.....
Lifted to an incident in another force with a 20 minute response for mispers, 15 minutes into it we get cancelled, turn around and head back to our force and do a few photographic jobs. then called back to that force for a suspect contained, 15 minute transit 10 minutes into it, cancelled 25 minute flight back to base for tea and medals??
Nah can we now go to a force to the north of ours for a suicidal misper?
rotors running refuel, back in the cab, crack on, 20 minute transit and guess what?
cancelled after 10 minutes.
Quote of the evening 'Gentleman we have just completed an NPAS shift, welcome to the future of police aviation, lots of transiting, no results!'
Lifted to an incident in another force with a 20 minute response for mispers, 15 minutes into it we get cancelled, turn around and head back to our force and do a few photographic jobs. then called back to that force for a suspect contained, 15 minute transit 10 minutes into it, cancelled 25 minute flight back to base for tea and medals??
Nah can we now go to a force to the north of ours for a suicidal misper?
rotors running refuel, back in the cab, crack on, 20 minute transit and guess what?
cancelled after 10 minutes.
Quote of the evening 'Gentleman we have just completed an NPAS shift, welcome to the future of police aviation, lots of transiting, no results!'
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How odd my post had a mod. I said tw@tter and it converted it to pprune.
Any way......what happens when the chopper goes in for service or has a 24hr problem. Will they not notice the lack of posts and put 2 and 2 together.
Any way......what happens when the chopper goes in for service or has a 24hr problem. Will they not notice the lack of posts and put 2 and 2 together.
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Twatter Twutter what ever you want to call it is a joke. All it does is once again let people (the bad ones) have all our secrets as to hours of work and sooner or later information will slip that shouldnt... I agree when its quiet for a couple of days they crims will soon cotton on, they already know the response times etc.
Imagine if we had twooter in WWII my God that would have been entertaining wouldnt it
It will be to the detrement of the operational success sooner than later, all because some boss wants to "connect2 with the people.... best way of connecting is catching crims and keeping folk safe, they really dont give sh1t how you do it as long as its done, what next your washing machine engineer twooting about your spin speeds.... the bin man letting you know how much of your waste really is reclaimed... I don't give a monkeys nut all I want them to do is the job not keep telling me like some school kid how fekkin good they are!!!
Huge rant over
ps I will be banned from twooter after my first post at work
Imagine if we had twooter in WWII my God that would have been entertaining wouldnt it
It will be to the detrement of the operational success sooner than later, all because some boss wants to "connect2 with the people.... best way of connecting is catching crims and keeping folk safe, they really dont give sh1t how you do it as long as its done, what next your washing machine engineer twooting about your spin speeds.... the bin man letting you know how much of your waste really is reclaimed... I don't give a monkeys nut all I want them to do is the job not keep telling me like some school kid how fekkin good they are!!!
Huge rant over
ps I will be banned from twooter after my first post at work
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Imagine if we had twooter in WWII my God that would have been entertaining wouldnt it
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it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity,
it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness,
it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair."
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Yeah I forgot that bit BUDGIE
Sid you are right we could have beaten the Germans much easier with Twooter, but what would have Sky News said about how unfair our troops were in breaking a childs doll when advancing through some war torn town despite heavy casualties....
Sid you are right we could have beaten the Germans much easier with Twooter, but what would have Sky News said about how unfair our troops were in breaking a childs doll when advancing through some war torn town despite heavy casualties....
You may recall that the October 2010 NPAS plan had lots of basing ideas.... there was foggy Colerne and a tranche of unresearched other bases that it seems clear have resulted in the surprised owners and other occupants saying 'No thank you' to unexpected basing proposals.
I just picked up on a confirming story relating to Southend [where the Essex aircraft was supposed to go when the gravel extraction forced them out of Boreham].
Sad and neglected Southend Airport is on the up it seems and welcoming easyJet as its major operator from April 2012. 800,000 passengers initially and more for the future. Stobart Group are pumping £60m in and getting 70 easyJet services per week to 10 different European destinations to help them along.
Why would they want a helicopter cluttering up their airspace? Well I guess that the 'research' only recalled 'sad and neglected' from some ten year old brochure and not what was actually happening.
I just picked up on a confirming story relating to Southend [where the Essex aircraft was supposed to go when the gravel extraction forced them out of Boreham].
Sad and neglected Southend Airport is on the up it seems and welcoming easyJet as its major operator from April 2012. 800,000 passengers initially and more for the future. Stobart Group are pumping £60m in and getting 70 easyJet services per week to 10 different European destinations to help them along.
Why would they want a helicopter cluttering up their airspace? Well I guess that the 'research' only recalled 'sad and neglected' from some ten year old brochure and not what was actually happening.
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slight departure from the thread...................sorry
'Copsquad' in SKY1 @ 2000 tonight.
Within 30 minutes the program has given out, what in my force are 'protected' details on Air support techniques............I'm livid! PCs divulging too much info to the camera to make good TV and then give away a covert technique we all use!!!
What were they thinking? did noone from that force vet the footage before it was allowed to be aired!!!!
Christ on a bike with stabilisers! its worse the Twutter!!!!
Once again I apologise
'Copsquad' in SKY1 @ 2000 tonight.
Within 30 minutes the program has given out, what in my force are 'protected' details on Air support techniques............I'm
livid! PCs divulging too much info to the camera to make good TV and then give away a covert technique we all use!!!What were they thinking? did noone from that force vet the footage before it was allowed to be aired!!!!
Christ on a bike with stabilisers! its worse the Twutter!!!!
Once again I apologise
I didn't see Copsquad (and can barely believe that it isn't some low rent parody) because I don't have rich man's telly but I did see tonight's BBC offering which was ... erm ... interesting.
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Yeah great work that. Showing the scrote getting away by hiding in the trees and harping on about the thermal camera not being able to see him.
But don't panic if you call his name out using the PA system then he will just come right out.
Genius
But don't panic if you call his name out using the PA system then he will just come right out.
Genius