Night landings, off heliport.
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Night landings, off heliport.
Military can obviously do this using NVGs.
UK Helimed and Police don't.
Who does them?
In what circumstances would you do this?
Anyone done this to an unlit site, such as a hotel, a farmer's field or a private residence?
UK Helimed and Police don't.
Who does them?
In what circumstances would you do this?
Anyone done this to an unlit site, such as a hotel, a farmer's field or a private residence?
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Frequently! No big deal, surely? You need to know the site from daylight experience, have a landing light that swivels in azimuth and elevation, and approach and let down slowly.
Why the question?
Why the question?
Avoid imitations
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An SX-16 (30 Million Candle Power Nightsun) would help
And despite having Nightsun, the UK police still don't routinely do night off-helipad landings. UK Helimed could fit it but don't, as they don't normally operate at night.
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In which country are we discussing ? looks like a german asking and english replying ,in some countrys no night landings away from airfields [some countrys no off airfield landings at all day or night ?
G'day Art,
There are at least 6 operations in Australia which carry out ship's deck landings every night of the year without the luxury of NVGs or Nightsuns. We call it MPT (Marine Pilot Transfer).
Cheers,
Capt SFB
There are at least 6 operations in Australia which carry out ship's deck landings every night of the year without the luxury of NVGs or Nightsuns. We call it MPT (Marine Pilot Transfer).
Cheers,
Capt SFB
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At the risk of being villified for doing something stupid and killing lots of people, we Yanks in HEMS do it regularly everyday and twice on Sundays (or any other holiday for that matter---y'know ----lots of drinkin' and drivin') and some of us (heavens to Betsy!!) actually do it without a co pilot, two engines or NVGs.
Alt3.
Alt3.
This is a buoy which frequently gets rounded here on PPRuNe - there are 2 joint Police/Helimed operations here in the UK which routinely carry out night HEMS landings within their respective PAOM-mandated patches: Wiltshire and Sussex. Try asking them.
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At the risk of being villified for doing something stupid and killing lots of people, we Yanks in HEMS do it regularly everyday and twice on Sundays (or any other holiday for that matter---y'know ----lots of drinkin' and drivin') and some of us (heavens to Betsy!!) actually do it without a co pilot, two engines or NVGs.
Alt3.
Alt3.
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manfromuncle
To be fair to alouette3, whilst US EMS doesn't have a great safety record, I'm not sure that many of the incidents are from actually landing at night and hitting things - I think most are en route, often in poor weather.
To be fair to alouette3, whilst US EMS doesn't have a great safety record, I'm not sure that many of the incidents are from actually landing at night and hitting things - I think most are en route, often in poor weather.
Police can and do carry out night Landings (usually for Casevac) we would probably do one a month as an ASU. Only done after dark as the air Ambulance has to finish by then. No NVG yet, just a big lamp and a good recce with the Flir.
I fly a 206 for a small company here in the U.S. Only has the standard miserable landing lights, and one extra, fixed spotlight under the fuselage which is aimed downward almost vertically. We routinely go to certain of our sites at night. Of course, none we haven't been to in the daytime. No big deal if you're familiar with the site and you know what you're doing. (It's that last bit that gives me trouble sometimes.) HOGE power is a must-have, obviously.
Ironically, our home base airport has such poor and unreliable lighting that it is *nearly* as challenging as some of our better sites. The PCL isn't, and the beacon often gets stuck, showing green thisaway and white thataway...until it decides to start rotating again at its whim. Oh, it's a treat!
Ironically, our home base airport has such poor and unreliable lighting that it is *nearly* as challenging as some of our better sites. The PCL isn't, and the beacon often gets stuck, showing green thisaway and white thataway...until it decides to start rotating again at its whim. Oh, it's a treat!
Art E,
Is this purely a HEMS/Police query, or a general night landing issue?
Australia has many 24 hour HEMS & Police operations, generally single pilot with crewman, all of which would carry out night landings with nitesun with or without NVG on a regular basis into unprepared sites. Many different compliance requirements for the choice of sites, but a trained and professional crew is quite capable of carrying out such an evolution.
Is this purely a HEMS/Police query, or a general night landing issue?
Australia has many 24 hour HEMS & Police operations, generally single pilot with crewman, all of which would carry out night landings with nitesun with or without NVG on a regular basis into unprepared sites. Many different compliance requirements for the choice of sites, but a trained and professional crew is quite capable of carrying out such an evolution.
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Am with one of the MPT (Marine Pilot Transfer) operators in Aus, and we do up to 7 or 8 ships a night every night of the year, single pilot, NVFR only (100's of different ships). Some ships have nice deck lights, others have next to none, all are underway, and pitching and rolling in some form, depending on the weather at the time. Chuck in fog, sea spray, cranes on the ships etc... it all makes for good fun. No night sun, no NVG's, single engine heli over water. Most operators over here though are now going twin engine. We fly 22nm offshore at most. EC120 has a reasonable nightscanner style light that from 250 odd feet can light up pretty well. The old Jetbanger not so flash on the lighting.. but then, nothing is in as much of a hurry in the good old girl as the EC120.
I am actually in the process of trying to make some form of video collected over the next month from my new aquistion, a high definition helmet camera, so as long as I don't cock too many approaches up, I might even share them. Just have to get around to polishing my shoes, as they seem to feature a fair bit in the footage as I look down through the chin bubble..
Will have to see how the camera fairs in the low light however. With out spending an absolute fortune this is the best I can get, but so far its a bit blurry at night.
I am actually in the process of trying to make some form of video collected over the next month from my new aquistion, a high definition helmet camera, so as long as I don't cock too many approaches up, I might even share them. Just have to get around to polishing my shoes, as they seem to feature a fair bit in the footage as I look down through the chin bubble..
Will have to see how the camera fairs in the low light however. With out spending an absolute fortune this is the best I can get, but so far its a bit blurry at night.
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In the UK, both private civil and certain commercial helicopters operators land and take off at night from sites that are neither a heliport nor an airport.
Clearly, for a PPL(H) their 'copter has to be appropriately equipped and approved and the pilot current and Night Rated.
For commercial heli ops, I understand the limit is 19 seats or less and with a CAA AOC approved for this type of op.
The anomaly here is that, having departed a private site at night, one can't recover to a licensed airport or heliport if it is outside the published operating hours. Furthermore, PCL at these locations can only be approved for use by the Police/HEMS services. I'm not aware of civil NVG usage either.
It's all here if you want to check
Publications with Titles Containing : helicopter | Publications | CAA
Sir George Cayley
Clearly, for a PPL(H) their 'copter has to be appropriately equipped and approved and the pilot current and Night Rated.
For commercial heli ops, I understand the limit is 19 seats or less and with a CAA AOC approved for this type of op.
The anomaly here is that, having departed a private site at night, one can't recover to a licensed airport or heliport if it is outside the published operating hours. Furthermore, PCL at these locations can only be approved for use by the Police/HEMS services. I'm not aware of civil NVG usage either.
It's all here if you want to check
Publications with Titles Containing : helicopter | Publications | CAA
Sir George Cayley
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'Tis the shooting season. I spend most Friday nights landing (public transport) at sites in the west country lit by a well known member of the UK helicopter community. All part of the job, admittedly my least favourite part of it. In fact from recent experience dealing with the mud is worse than the flight.
There seems to be great surprise from many readers of this forum that this is legal. It is in fact a simple operation that requires a degree of planning, personal knowledge of the site by both the pilot and the ground agent, and a sense of humour. We land on a standard T with a 4x4 parked alongside showing lights and a strobe. The ground man is on the radio with a portable weather station and is able to give very accurate cloud and wind conditions.
We spend part of every August driving round the sites we are prepared to use at night. They are photographed annually to check for changes and large panoramic views are taken to show any potential hazards. The pilots make copious notes about the sites and operations make sure that all the notes and photos are available to each pilot before he flies. A telephone brief is held between the pilot and the ground man before the flight, and at any time the pilot can say NO, in which case the flight will go to the nearest available airport with full approach facilities.
I've been lucky this year. The one night we thought would be iffy was fine, but the field was like the Somme. On a rough night an early decision to divert (normally made before departure) and ground transport arranged, and an explanation to the passengers of why saves an awful lot of stress, trying to do that lot in flight, while setting up for an IFR approach is bloody hard work which is why we have as much prepared before hand as possible.
There seems to be great surprise from many readers of this forum that this is legal. It is in fact a simple operation that requires a degree of planning, personal knowledge of the site by both the pilot and the ground agent, and a sense of humour. We land on a standard T with a 4x4 parked alongside showing lights and a strobe. The ground man is on the radio with a portable weather station and is able to give very accurate cloud and wind conditions.
We spend part of every August driving round the sites we are prepared to use at night. They are photographed annually to check for changes and large panoramic views are taken to show any potential hazards. The pilots make copious notes about the sites and operations make sure that all the notes and photos are available to each pilot before he flies. A telephone brief is held between the pilot and the ground man before the flight, and at any time the pilot can say NO, in which case the flight will go to the nearest available airport with full approach facilities.
I've been lucky this year. The one night we thought would be iffy was fine, but the field was like the Somme. On a rough night an early decision to divert (normally made before departure) and ground transport arranged, and an explanation to the passengers of why saves an awful lot of stress, trying to do that lot in flight, while setting up for an IFR approach is bloody hard work which is why we have as much prepared before hand as possible.
