Heli ditch North Sea G-REDL: NOT condolences
HUMS use in a previous accident
It might be of interest to some to have a look at the Norwegian AAIBs report on the fatal AS332L1 (LN-OPG) accident in 1997. Not that I have any reason to think there is any similarity whatsoever in what happened, but since HUMS has come up, this is a sobering reminder to all that think new equipment automatically makes a huge difference to the level of safety.
Appendix 2 to the report on page 27 shows the HUMS recordings for the relevant area. They indicate an increase in vibration levels for almost the last 100 hours before the accident. HUMS data is analysed in chapter 2.3.6 on page 105 of the main report and HUMS use in chapter 2.10 on page 151.
The english version of the report and appendices may be found here: Havarikommisjonen
Appendix 2 to the report on page 27 shows the HUMS recordings for the relevant area. They indicate an increase in vibration levels for almost the last 100 hours before the accident. HUMS data is analysed in chapter 2.3.6 on page 105 of the main report and HUMS use in chapter 2.10 on page 151.
The english version of the report and appendices may be found here: Havarikommisjonen
Last edited by GenuineHoverBug; 4th Apr 2009 at 11:32.
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If you refer to the tragic Chinook (234) accident in 86, there were no HUMS installed at the time. It was not "invented" yet. There were discussions as to if oil analysis did show a development or not. HUMS were first introduced in the north sea in 87 and 88. The HUMS was then installed on the Norwegian Chinooks for the duration of the operation until 95, and several cases proved it worked. XMSN's were pulled on HUMS indications alone (single gear tooth issue), cross shaft coupling bolts with missing heads detected twice and flights cancelled, also SOAP analysis trending with samples every 25 proved important and resulted in cancelled flight (impending gen drive shaft brg failure) HUMS is a great additional surveillance tool, but it does require continuous expert judgement and experience databases for comparisons. It is not and i believe it will never become a simple go - nogo box.
If you refer to the tragic Chinook (234) accident in 86, there were no HUMS installed at the time. It was not "invented" yet. There were discussions as to if oil analysis did show a development or not. HUMS were first introduced in the north sea in 87 and 88. The HUMS was then installed on the Norwegian Chinooks for the duration of the operation until 95, and several cases proved it worked. XMSN's were pulled on HUMS indications alone (single gear tooth issue), cross shaft coupling bolts with missing heads detected twice and flights cancelled, also SOAP analysis trending with samples every 25 proved important and resulted in cancelled flight (impending gen drive shaft brg failure) HUMS is a great additional surveillance tool, but it does require continuous expert judgement and experience databases for comparisons. It is not and i believe it will never become a simple go - nogo box.
VHM, which could probably be described as a part of the "H" of the HUMS, is required at least in the UK and Norway.
And what is required is not just to fit the VHM, but to use it to monitor and discover problems in the gearbox/powertrain.
And what is required is not just to fit the VHM, but to use it to monitor and discover problems in the gearbox/powertrain.
There were discussions as to if oil analysis did show a development or not.
The aircraft was to be positioned from Shetland to Aberdeen the next day for a gearbox change. Tragically it never made it.
It is surprising how similar this was to the Norne Super Puma crash. In that monitoring tools were being used, they were saying something was wrong, but unfortunatley the wrong decisions were made.
It would appear the Vigilant has returned and the Bibby Topaz has now sailed to the recovery site.
Hopefully soon we will have more news Live Ships Map - AIS - Vessel Traffic and Positions
Hopefully soon we will have more news Live Ships Map - AIS - Vessel Traffic and Positions
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I see the AAIB have made a press statement, nothing earth shattering though.
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...ril%202009.pdf
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...ril%202009.pdf
The SOAP trends on 'FCs failed gearbox were increasing rapidly prior to the accident. In fact some of the metals were well above BAH's internal alert levels. The gearbox remained in service as the levels being recorded were still below that recommended by Boeing in the MM.
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IHUMS
I sugest that you research the capabilities of IHUMS before making comment. I have never worked for Bond but am sure that no-one there would release an aircraft with any doubtful IHUMS readings.Helicopter Services did so to their cost. If you do not know what you are talking about keep quite!!!!
How one would wish that life was that simple!
The IHUMS, at least in the 90's, has very few capabilities in itself. But it, and other similar monitoring devices, has a huge potential provided it's use is managed in an appropriate manner. That was missing in Helikopter Service prior to 1997.
The IHUMS, at least in the 90's, has very few capabilities in itself. But it, and other similar monitoring devices, has a huge potential provided it's use is managed in an appropriate manner. That was missing in Helikopter Service prior to 1997.
The SOAP trends on 'FCs failed gearbox were increasing rapidly prior to the accident. In fact some of the metals were well above BAH's internal alert levels. The gearbox remained in service as the levels being recorded were still below that recommended by Boeing in the MM.
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Guys,
no I wasn't referring to the Chinook.. that was a little before my (and HUMS) time..
The Norwegian report highlights my point adequately.
no I wasn't referring to the Chinook.. that was a little before my (and HUMS) time..
The Norwegian report highlights my point adequately.
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BBC NEWS | Scotland | North East/N Isles | Crash helicopter wreckage found
Confirmation of finding the wreckage.
Confirmation of finding the wreckage.
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Wreckage Found
According to the BBC Teletext Service, the wreckage of the Super Puma has been found 100m down on the sea bed by the vessel Bibby Topaz.
Lets hope calm seas aid a speedy recovery so that we can get some much needed information and answers, and also a chance for several families to be able to lay their loved ones to rest.
Lets hope calm seas aid a speedy recovery so that we can get some much needed information and answers, and also a chance for several families to be able to lay their loved ones to rest.
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Police announce 7 more bodies recovered
Text of Grampian Police Press Release shortly after 1300 Sunday
North Sea Helicopter Emergency: Grampian Police confirm further bodies recovered
Grampian Police, the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service (COPFS) and others continue to work on the recovery and identification of the victims from the Super Puma helicopter crash on Wednesday 1 April 2009.
As a result of the ongoing effort, 7 of the remaining 8 victims have been recovered by divers onto a vessel at the scene.
It is believed likely that two of those recovered are the Pilot and Co-Pilot, Paul Burnham and Richard Menzies.
The search operation for the last remaining body continues.
Families of all the victims have been informed of the current situation.
As before, Grampian Police and COPFS can reassure the families and friends of all the victims, and the wider public, that the detailed work to confirm all identities remains of the highest priority and is being pursued as quickly as possible.
NOTE TO EDITORS: Grampian Police are currently unable to provide any information where and when the bodies are being brought ashore. When this information becomes available a further release will follow.
North Sea Helicopter Emergency: Grampian Police confirm further bodies recovered
Grampian Police, the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service (COPFS) and others continue to work on the recovery and identification of the victims from the Super Puma helicopter crash on Wednesday 1 April 2009.
As a result of the ongoing effort, 7 of the remaining 8 victims have been recovered by divers onto a vessel at the scene.
It is believed likely that two of those recovered are the Pilot and Co-Pilot, Paul Burnham and Richard Menzies.
The search operation for the last remaining body continues.
Families of all the victims have been informed of the current situation.
As before, Grampian Police and COPFS can reassure the families and friends of all the victims, and the wider public, that the detailed work to confirm all identities remains of the highest priority and is being pursued as quickly as possible.
NOTE TO EDITORS: Grampian Police are currently unable to provide any information where and when the bodies are being brought ashore. When this information becomes available a further release will follow.
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Sunday Times reports other Super Puma crashes
Oil workers boycott helicopter - Times Online
From The Sunday Times
April 5, 2009
Oil workers boycott helicopter
Calls are mounting for all Super Puma AS 332L2s to be grounded amid safety fears following crashes in the North Sea and Brazil
Mark Macaskill and Julia Belgutay
div#related-article-links p a, div#related-article-links p a:visited { color:#06c; } FEARS have been raised over the safety of the type of helicopter that crashed into the North Sea last week, killing 16 people, after it emerged that oil workers in South America staged a six month boycott of the aircraft last year.
Members of the Brazilian Oil Workers’ Federation (FUP) refused to board any Super Puma AS 332L2 from February following an accident in the South Atlantic, which happened in circumstances similar to last week’s crash.
The helicopter was forced to ditch into the ocean 68 miles off the coast of Rio de Janeiro, killing five of the 17 passengers and crew on board. The cause has still not been determined.
It followed two other fatal accidents involving the same type of aircraft in the South China Sea in January 2007 and November 2006.
The Brazilian offshore workers ended their boycott in September following a report on the crash from Petrobras, the state-owned oil company.
Aberdeen-based Bond Offshore Helicopters, which owned the Super Puma L2 which crashed into the sea about 14 miles off the Aberdeenshire coast on Wednesday, immediately suspended use of all L2s. Eurocopter, manufacturers of the aircraft, denied there was an issue with its safety.
Yesterday union leaders on both sides of the Atlantic called for all L2s to be grounded until the cause of the Scottish crash is known. “The best practice would be to ground this type of craft until after a full investigation of the accident,” said Jose Maria Rangel, co-ordinator for the Sindipetro union, which is affiliated with the FUP.
He added: “Of all the aircraft that Petrobras use, the Super Puma L2 is the one that has the most problems. Its cost/benefit ratio is terrible as it spends so much time on the ground with mechanical problems. After the accident last year union members boycotted it.
“After six months Petrobras presented us with a report that claimed evidence of mechanical problems with the craft was inconclusive. Workers started to use the Super Puma L2 again but feel less safe on this aircraft than others and even today there are times when workers will refuse to board it.”
Jake Molloy, general secretary of the Offshore Industry Liaison Committee, said: “We think it is appropriate to ground that particular model until we find out why it just fell out of the sky. It’s difficult \ to hold the position the model is safe seeing as they have just lost an aircraft.
“With three fatal crashes in recent years, that will raise further concern especially as the cause of the crash in Brazil still hasn’t been determined.”
Efforts to recover the wreckage of the Super Puma in the North Sea were continuing yesterday amid speculation that a “catastrophic” mechanical failure caused the accident. The bodies of eight men have not yet been recovered.
Officials from the Air Accidents Investigation Branch are keen to retrieve the aircraft’s black box which is likely to yield clues. A three-man team has been sent by Eurocopter, the French manufacturer of the Super Puma 332L2, to Aberdeen to assist the investigation.
The Queen sent a letter of condolence to the families of the victims. Gordon Brown, the prime minister, and Alex Salmond, Scotland’s first minister, also expressed their sorrow.
April 5, 2009
Oil workers boycott helicopter
Calls are mounting for all Super Puma AS 332L2s to be grounded amid safety fears following crashes in the North Sea and Brazil
Mark Macaskill and Julia Belgutay
div#related-article-links p a, div#related-article-links p a:visited { color:#06c; } FEARS have been raised over the safety of the type of helicopter that crashed into the North Sea last week, killing 16 people, after it emerged that oil workers in South America staged a six month boycott of the aircraft last year.
Members of the Brazilian Oil Workers’ Federation (FUP) refused to board any Super Puma AS 332L2 from February following an accident in the South Atlantic, which happened in circumstances similar to last week’s crash.
The helicopter was forced to ditch into the ocean 68 miles off the coast of Rio de Janeiro, killing five of the 17 passengers and crew on board. The cause has still not been determined.
It followed two other fatal accidents involving the same type of aircraft in the South China Sea in January 2007 and November 2006.
The Brazilian offshore workers ended their boycott in September following a report on the crash from Petrobras, the state-owned oil company.
Aberdeen-based Bond Offshore Helicopters, which owned the Super Puma L2 which crashed into the sea about 14 miles off the Aberdeenshire coast on Wednesday, immediately suspended use of all L2s. Eurocopter, manufacturers of the aircraft, denied there was an issue with its safety.
Yesterday union leaders on both sides of the Atlantic called for all L2s to be grounded until the cause of the Scottish crash is known. “The best practice would be to ground this type of craft until after a full investigation of the accident,” said Jose Maria Rangel, co-ordinator for the Sindipetro union, which is affiliated with the FUP.
He added: “Of all the aircraft that Petrobras use, the Super Puma L2 is the one that has the most problems. Its cost/benefit ratio is terrible as it spends so much time on the ground with mechanical problems. After the accident last year union members boycotted it.
“After six months Petrobras presented us with a report that claimed evidence of mechanical problems with the craft was inconclusive. Workers started to use the Super Puma L2 again but feel less safe on this aircraft than others and even today there are times when workers will refuse to board it.”
Jake Molloy, general secretary of the Offshore Industry Liaison Committee, said: “We think it is appropriate to ground that particular model until we find out why it just fell out of the sky. It’s difficult \ to hold the position the model is safe seeing as they have just lost an aircraft.
“With three fatal crashes in recent years, that will raise further concern especially as the cause of the crash in Brazil still hasn’t been determined.”
Efforts to recover the wreckage of the Super Puma in the North Sea were continuing yesterday amid speculation that a “catastrophic” mechanical failure caused the accident. The bodies of eight men have not yet been recovered.
Officials from the Air Accidents Investigation Branch are keen to retrieve the aircraft’s black box which is likely to yield clues. A three-man team has been sent by Eurocopter, the French manufacturer of the Super Puma 332L2, to Aberdeen to assist the investigation.
The Queen sent a letter of condolence to the families of the victims. Gordon Brown, the prime minister, and Alex Salmond, Scotland’s first minister, also expressed their sorrow.
Last edited by Senior Pilot; 5th Apr 2009 at 21:39. Reason: Add text as quote
Black Box recovered aswel!
BBC NEWS | Scotland | North East/N Isles | Helicopter crash black box found
BBC NEWS | Scotland | North East/N Isles | Helicopter crash black box found
All bodies recovered after crash
The bodies of Mr Menzies (left) and Mr Burnham were among those found
Those who died in North Sea crash
All 16 bodies and the black box flight recorder have been recovered from a helicopter that crashed in the North Sea, killing everyone on board.
The wreckage of the Super Puma was located on the sea bed by the Bibby Topaz salvage vessel.
The helicopter crashed off the Aberdeenshire coast on Wednesday.
By Monday morning, all bodies are expected to have been brought ashore. Grampian Police said that families of victims had been kept informed.
Provide clues
On Sunday evening, investigators said they found the last remaining body.
Earlier, Grampian Police said they believed two of the recovered bodies were the pilot and co-pilot, Paul Burnham, 31, from Methlick in Aberdeenshire, and Richard Menzies, 24, of Droitwich Spa in Worcestershire.
The force also said it would be setting up an incident support centre at Aberdeen's Hilton Treetops Hotel on Monday to provide assistance to those affected by the tragedy.
The Air Accident Investigation Branch (AAIB) said the cockpit voice and flight data recorder had been found and taken to its headquarters in Farnborough.
It was hoped the recorder - often referred to as the aircraft's black box - would provide clues to what caused the crash.
The AAIB said some helicopter wreckage had already been taken on board the Bibby Topaz, and efforts were ongoing to lift the remainder from the sea bed.
The helicopter was said to have been lying about 100m under the surface. It had been returning from BP's Miller oil platform when it crashed some 15 miles off Peterhead at 1400 BST on Wednesday.
It was operated by British firm Bond Offshore Helicopters. BP has said it had discontinued use of the helicopters for an unspecified period.
Diving teams had been working at the scene of the crash since Saturday afternoon trying to locate the wreckage and the cockpit voice and data recorder.
Prayers for the dead men were said at a special service at the St Nicholas Kirk in Aberdeen on Sunday morning.
'Learn lessons'
Rev Andrew Jolly, chaplain to the UK oil and gas industry, told the service: "We cannot begin to imagine the pain and sorrow their loved ones feel at their loss.
"The offshore world is a big industry but a small family. When any tragedy strikes, it is felt by all those who work offshore and onshore.
"This great city of Aberdeen has taken this industry to its heart and has stood in silence and shared its sorrow and pain over the years."
Rev Jolly also paid tribute to David Stephenson, who lost his life in a separate accident on the Well Servicer diving support vessel in the North Sea, also on Wednesday.
Scottish Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill said: "The recovery of more bodies is sad, but hopefully it can provide some little comfort and solace for grieving families.
"We know that it's vital that the helicopter is found to try and find out what caused the crash and to learn lessons and seek to avoid further tragedies.
"I know the emergency services have been working extremely hard and doing their absolute best to make sure all the bodies are recovered and identified as quickly as possible."
The Bibby Topaz is above the wreckage of the Super Puma
Grampian Police said on Saturday night they had identified all eight of the bodies which had been recovered by that stage.
The bodies of Brian Barkley, 30, of Aberdeen; James Edwards, 33, of Liverpool; Vernon Elrick, 41, of Aberdeen; and Mihails Zuravskis, 39, from Latvia, were identified on Saturday. All four men were employed by KCA Deutag.
Raymond Doyle, 57, from Cumbernauld; Nairn Ferrier, 40, from Dundee; Warren Mitchell, 38, of Oldmeldrum, Aberdeenshire; and Stuart Wood, 27, from Aberdeen, had been formally identified the previous day.
Mr Doyle and Mr Ferrier also worked for KCA Deutag. Mr Wood was employed by Expro North Sea, while Mr Mitchell was employed by Weatherford UK.
Among the other men who died were four further KCA Deutag employees - Nolan Carl Goble, 34, of Norwich; Gareth Hughes, 53, of Angus; David Rae, 63, of Dumfries and Leslie Taylor, 41, of Kintore, Aberdeenshire.
James Costello, 24, from Aberdeen, who worked for contractor PSN, and Alex Dallas, 62, also from Aberdeen, who was employed by Sparrow Offshores Services, also died.
The bodies of Mr Menzies (left) and Mr Burnham were among those found
Those who died in North Sea crash
All 16 bodies and the black box flight recorder have been recovered from a helicopter that crashed in the North Sea, killing everyone on board.
The wreckage of the Super Puma was located on the sea bed by the Bibby Topaz salvage vessel.
The helicopter crashed off the Aberdeenshire coast on Wednesday.
By Monday morning, all bodies are expected to have been brought ashore. Grampian Police said that families of victims had been kept informed.
Provide clues
On Sunday evening, investigators said they found the last remaining body.
Earlier, Grampian Police said they believed two of the recovered bodies were the pilot and co-pilot, Paul Burnham, 31, from Methlick in Aberdeenshire, and Richard Menzies, 24, of Droitwich Spa in Worcestershire.
The force also said it would be setting up an incident support centre at Aberdeen's Hilton Treetops Hotel on Monday to provide assistance to those affected by the tragedy.
The Air Accident Investigation Branch (AAIB) said the cockpit voice and flight data recorder had been found and taken to its headquarters in Farnborough.
It was hoped the recorder - often referred to as the aircraft's black box - would provide clues to what caused the crash.
The AAIB said some helicopter wreckage had already been taken on board the Bibby Topaz, and efforts were ongoing to lift the remainder from the sea bed.
The helicopter was said to have been lying about 100m under the surface. It had been returning from BP's Miller oil platform when it crashed some 15 miles off Peterhead at 1400 BST on Wednesday.
It was operated by British firm Bond Offshore Helicopters. BP has said it had discontinued use of the helicopters for an unspecified period.
Diving teams had been working at the scene of the crash since Saturday afternoon trying to locate the wreckage and the cockpit voice and data recorder.
Prayers for the dead men were said at a special service at the St Nicholas Kirk in Aberdeen on Sunday morning.
'Learn lessons'
Rev Andrew Jolly, chaplain to the UK oil and gas industry, told the service: "We cannot begin to imagine the pain and sorrow their loved ones feel at their loss.
"The offshore world is a big industry but a small family. When any tragedy strikes, it is felt by all those who work offshore and onshore.
"This great city of Aberdeen has taken this industry to its heart and has stood in silence and shared its sorrow and pain over the years."
Rev Jolly also paid tribute to David Stephenson, who lost his life in a separate accident on the Well Servicer diving support vessel in the North Sea, also on Wednesday.
Scottish Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill said: "The recovery of more bodies is sad, but hopefully it can provide some little comfort and solace for grieving families.
"We know that it's vital that the helicopter is found to try and find out what caused the crash and to learn lessons and seek to avoid further tragedies.
"I know the emergency services have been working extremely hard and doing their absolute best to make sure all the bodies are recovered and identified as quickly as possible."
The Bibby Topaz is above the wreckage of the Super PumaGrampian Police said on Saturday night they had identified all eight of the bodies which had been recovered by that stage.
The bodies of Brian Barkley, 30, of Aberdeen; James Edwards, 33, of Liverpool; Vernon Elrick, 41, of Aberdeen; and Mihails Zuravskis, 39, from Latvia, were identified on Saturday. All four men were employed by KCA Deutag.
Raymond Doyle, 57, from Cumbernauld; Nairn Ferrier, 40, from Dundee; Warren Mitchell, 38, of Oldmeldrum, Aberdeenshire; and Stuart Wood, 27, from Aberdeen, had been formally identified the previous day.
Mr Doyle and Mr Ferrier also worked for KCA Deutag. Mr Wood was employed by Expro North Sea, while Mr Mitchell was employed by Weatherford UK.
Among the other men who died were four further KCA Deutag employees - Nolan Carl Goble, 34, of Norwich; Gareth Hughes, 53, of Angus; David Rae, 63, of Dumfries and Leslie Taylor, 41, of Kintore, Aberdeenshire.
James Costello, 24, from Aberdeen, who worked for contractor PSN, and Alex Dallas, 62, also from Aberdeen, who was employed by Sparrow Offshores Services, also died.
Last edited by Senior Pilot; 5th Apr 2009 at 21:41. Reason: Add text as quote
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Maybe I have been out of the loop during my travels over the last few days. Have the operators made any statement or held a press conference? Have they made any meaningful comment? Have the authorities given an informed comment? Can we expect an update soon?
Guess the system of no information still rules, I really wish the UK authorities would join the real world.
Guess the system of no information still rules, I really wish the UK authorities would join the real world.
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Have the authorities given an informed comment? Can we expect an update soon?
Guess the system of no information still rules, I really wish the UK authorities would join the real world.
Guess the system of no information still rules, I really wish the UK authorities would join the real world.
Indeed, how can you expect them to comment on the crash in any detail when they are still in the process of recovering the aircraft wreckage and flight recorders ? As has happened in previous accidents, an initial report will be made public when the evidence has been examined, but not before.
Are you saying that other countries would have recovered the wreckage in a more timely manner from an environment like the North Sea, and would have already published a report ?? Of course not.
Outhouse,
RADAR's comments are fair with regard to an official verdict. However, I believe the operator has still not retracted or re-assessed their view that there is no evidence of mechanical failure of the airframe. I await to be corrected on this by those closer to the incident.
RADAR's comments are fair with regard to an official verdict. However, I believe the operator has still not retracted or re-assessed their view that there is no evidence of mechanical failure of the airframe. I await to be corrected on this by those closer to the incident.