Rocker Tommy Lee's Helicopter Forced to Land by Police
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Rocker Tommy Lee's Helicopter Forced to Land by Police
Rocker Tommy Lee's Helicopter Forced to Land by Police
A helicopter carrying rocker Tommy Lee was forced to land at Van Nuys Airport Sunday after it flew too close to an LAPD chopper over Glendale.
A helicopter carrying rocker Tommy Lee was forced to land at Van Nuys Airport Sunday after it flew too close to an LAPD chopper over Glendale.
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Interesting. Very curious as to how this goes and what makes the Police able to "force" other aircraft out of the sky.
NOTAM, I can understand, maybe even an emergency operation, but the rules are equal for all and sometimes these guys think their badges are big enough to slingload.
NOTAM, I can understand, maybe even an emergency operation, but the rules are equal for all and sometimes these guys think their badges are big enough to slingload.
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Reminds me of the LA Secret Service agent who cut off a guy who then gave the agent the hand pistol gesture we all do when playing cowboys and indians. Anyway, the SS agent arrested the guy for communicating a threat.
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Yea I'm interested about the legality too. I was cut off by a police helicopter in Philly ones, they even followed me into the surface Class B and requested with the tower that I should come up on 123.025 to receive a lecture why I wasn't monitoring that very frequency... I was actually talking to Philly approach/tower, receiving flight following (since I was operating in an out of the class B) on my only (operable) radio when they tried to contact me! 
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Is it the same in the States as it is in the UK?
i.e. Heli pilots are just commercial pilots and not police officers? Or do some states have police officer/commercial pilots all wrapped up into one big bundle of joy....
But which ever, why do they think they can "pull" people up or ....... pull people down... lol.
Tommy Lee's helicopter flew to close to them, why is it not that they flew too close to Tommy Lee's helicopter?
i.e. Heli pilots are just commercial pilots and not police officers? Or do some states have police officer/commercial pilots all wrapped up into one big bundle of joy....
But which ever, why do they think they can "pull" people up or ....... pull people down... lol.
Tommy Lee's helicopter flew to close to them, why is it not that they flew too close to Tommy Lee's helicopter?
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That varies from city to city. Some have civil pilots and police officers as copilot.
In New York and LA you have to be a police officer first, before they train you to become a pilot (I think Philadelphia too).
Nevertheless, as long as there is no TFR in effect, they have the same rights and obligations as you and can only ask you to do things (stay away from a pursuit or crime scenes etc.). All that of course applies as long as you don't break the law, but even then, "intercepting" another aircraft by regular police is questionable in my opinion.
In New York and LA you have to be a police officer first, before they train you to become a pilot (I think Philadelphia too).
Nevertheless, as long as there is no TFR in effect, they have the same rights and obligations as you and can only ask you to do things (stay away from a pursuit or crime scenes etc.). All that of course applies as long as you don't break the law, but even then, "intercepting" another aircraft by regular police is questionable in my opinion.
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Tommy Lee's helicopter flew to close to them, why is it not that they flew too close to Tommy Lee's helicopter?
Do police helicopters have any of the requisite jurisdiction over airspace to intercept and detain a civilian pilot? If so, what kind of probable cause/burden of proof requirements do they operate under? Would be very interested to hear some legal opinions on this.
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From what a heard about the incident the helicopter in question busted some airspace and caused a go-around at one of the airports and the tower requested the assistance of the LAPD. The LAPD only responded at the request of the tower.
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Once again this particular pilot is in the news for all the wrong reasons. He was the guy who landed in the street in front of Tommy Lee's house in 2006 and was subsuquently charged and had his certificate pulled.
Before everyone blasts the policemen who tracked him down it is a matter of time before this guy takes someone out. I say good on 'em.
Anyone who has flown in the LA basin and San Diego will know of several more interesting stories..........
Before everyone blasts the policemen who tracked him down it is a matter of time before this guy takes someone out. I say good on 'em.
Anyone who has flown in the LA basin and San Diego will know of several more interesting stories..........
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The vast majority of police pilots in the USA are fully sworn police officers. All the pilots at LAPD are sworn officers. If a law enforcement pilot sees an aircraft being operated in a reckless manner in violation of the law and ignoring air traffic control creating a hazard to air navigation, the officers have every right to request the person land and investigate the pilots fitness for flight. In fact, they would be derelict in their duties for not doing so. If they ignored this guy & mid aired someone, people would all be bitching how lazy & negligent the cops were.
As soon as this guy landed, he took off for the closest bar and had a few belts before the cops caught up with him. This was most likely done to cover up the fact he had been drinking. His defense is that he only started drinking when he arrived at the bar. Possibly difficult to prove otherwise. Certainly not the actions of an innocent person or any professional I'd want in the sky around me.
I'm amazed at how easily some people can ignore the big picture for the sake of bashing the police. If law enforcement "asks" you to do something, it may just be a request but on the other hand there may be some facts you are not aware of behind that request & it could very well carry the full force of the law.
As soon as this guy landed, he took off for the closest bar and had a few belts before the cops caught up with him. This was most likely done to cover up the fact he had been drinking. His defense is that he only started drinking when he arrived at the bar. Possibly difficult to prove otherwise. Certainly not the actions of an innocent person or any professional I'd want in the sky around me.
I'm amazed at how easily some people can ignore the big picture for the sake of bashing the police. If law enforcement "asks" you to do something, it may just be a request but on the other hand there may be some facts you are not aware of behind that request & it could very well carry the full force of the law.
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Stan,
you seem to know your way around police aviation and I don't mean that sarcastically; do you have any reference of the law you point me to? Maybe in the Electronic Code of Federal Regulations: ?
Its just my personal interest, not some beef with the police department.
In the contrary, I taught a few state police guys how to fly - one is now a good friend of mine. I also know a couple of guys from the NYPD Aviation - even flew with one gentlemen.
If it turns out to be true, that in this case ATC asked for assistance, fair enough - but still, can local police (or even state police) pursue federal law? My understanding is, that the airspace is federal territory? You could argue an emergency resulting from the reckless endangerment, but who is liable if the subject crashes during the interception?
I stand to be corrected.
FWIW: If half the stories about the pilot in question are true, he certainly should be grounded I think.
you seem to know your way around police aviation and I don't mean that sarcastically; do you have any reference of the law you point me to? Maybe in the Electronic Code of Federal Regulations: ?
Its just my personal interest, not some beef with the police department.
In the contrary, I taught a few state police guys how to fly - one is now a good friend of mine. I also know a couple of guys from the NYPD Aviation - even flew with one gentlemen.
If it turns out to be true, that in this case ATC asked for assistance, fair enough - but still, can local police (or even state police) pursue federal law? My understanding is, that the airspace is federal territory? You could argue an emergency resulting from the reckless endangerment, but who is liable if the subject crashes during the interception?
I stand to be corrected.
FWIW: If half the stories about the pilot in question are true, he certainly should be grounded I think.
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Phil,
Federal law and state laws often intersect here in the USA. I'll give you an example of an incident I was involved in around the early 1980's.
I was flying around turning avgas jet into noise late one night. A person in another county committed a grand theft of a small fixed wing aircraft. Not only is it a federal crime but it is a violation of state law. The pilot was also later determined to be under the influence of alcohol and drugs.
After buzzing around southern California he works his way through my jurisdiction. In the process busts the airspace at my home airport and at the same time makes some aggressive maneuvers toward another law enforcement helicopter. Under federal law that would be along he lines of a 'reckless operation." Under state law we would call it assault with a deadly weapon on a police officer, a felony.
The pilot continues on and busts the Class B (we called it a TCA then) at LAX forcing numerous passenger jets to divert. Eventually this guy has had enough fun & decides to land at my home airport. Of course he lands without talking to anyone causing another passenger jet on final to go around.
My question is do we in law enforcement ignore all this just because some federal crimes are involved? Did you know bank robbery is a federal crime? Local police are the first responders. Local police have every right in fact a duty to enforce ALL laws.
As another less extreme example, local law enforcement sees an aircraft land at an airport, less than an hours flying time from the Mexican border, no lights, no communication, should they be suspicious and investigate? Under the law, you have every right to investigate.
In my home state of California, (I'd guess it's the same all over the USA) police officers can enforce all laws when they have probable cause to believe a crime has been committed. It's a simple matter of filing the case in the appropriate court. Violation of state laws is filed in superior court with the district attorneys office. Federal charges are filed in federal court with the US Attorneys office..
Just because a crime may be a federal crime, it doesn't mean the local police have to say "Kings X." Nothing could be further from the truth. It is only under very rare circumstances a police aircrew going to ask or direct you to do anything. If they ask you to land and wait by your aircraft, wait for the nice men in the blue uniforms, my advice would be to comply, not run to the bar down the street & have a few belts. Chances are good that both the people in that law enforcement aircraft are fully sworn police officers with years of training in enforcing the law. The likely know your rights better than you do. In fact they have to.
Bottom line is some common sense, courtesy and cooperation can go a long way toward clearing up an incident. Of course you can ignore my advice, get cocky, get an attitude, tell the officer they cant touch you under federal law and see what happens. My guess is you will not like the results. I hope this answers your question.
Federal law and state laws often intersect here in the USA. I'll give you an example of an incident I was involved in around the early 1980's.
I was flying around turning avgas jet into noise late one night. A person in another county committed a grand theft of a small fixed wing aircraft. Not only is it a federal crime but it is a violation of state law. The pilot was also later determined to be under the influence of alcohol and drugs.
After buzzing around southern California he works his way through my jurisdiction. In the process busts the airspace at my home airport and at the same time makes some aggressive maneuvers toward another law enforcement helicopter. Under federal law that would be along he lines of a 'reckless operation." Under state law we would call it assault with a deadly weapon on a police officer, a felony.
The pilot continues on and busts the Class B (we called it a TCA then) at LAX forcing numerous passenger jets to divert. Eventually this guy has had enough fun & decides to land at my home airport. Of course he lands without talking to anyone causing another passenger jet on final to go around.
My question is do we in law enforcement ignore all this just because some federal crimes are involved? Did you know bank robbery is a federal crime? Local police are the first responders. Local police have every right in fact a duty to enforce ALL laws.
As another less extreme example, local law enforcement sees an aircraft land at an airport, less than an hours flying time from the Mexican border, no lights, no communication, should they be suspicious and investigate? Under the law, you have every right to investigate.
In my home state of California, (I'd guess it's the same all over the USA) police officers can enforce all laws when they have probable cause to believe a crime has been committed. It's a simple matter of filing the case in the appropriate court. Violation of state laws is filed in superior court with the district attorneys office. Federal charges are filed in federal court with the US Attorneys office..
Just because a crime may be a federal crime, it doesn't mean the local police have to say "Kings X." Nothing could be further from the truth. It is only under very rare circumstances a police aircrew going to ask or direct you to do anything. If they ask you to land and wait by your aircraft, wait for the nice men in the blue uniforms, my advice would be to comply, not run to the bar down the street & have a few belts. Chances are good that both the people in that law enforcement aircraft are fully sworn police officers with years of training in enforcing the law. The likely know your rights better than you do. In fact they have to.
Bottom line is some common sense, courtesy and cooperation can go a long way toward clearing up an incident. Of course you can ignore my advice, get cocky, get an attitude, tell the officer they cant touch you under federal law and see what happens. My guess is you will not like the results. I hope this answers your question.
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Police in aviation in California are also backed up by a small document called 'The Public Utilities Code'.
I'm in no expert, but I understand that gives them considerable clout.
I'm in no expert, but I understand that gives them considerable clout.
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You may be making reference to this? http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/planning/ae.../puc051107.pdf
The PUC is just another code or tool such as the penal code or vehicle code. There are 29 codes in California. A police officers authority to enforce the law is governed by the penal code.
As I said before, the police may also enforce federal law. It is just a mater of filing the cases with the proper agency, DA or US Attorney.
The PUC is just another code or tool such as the penal code or vehicle code. There are 29 codes in California. A police officers authority to enforce the law is governed by the penal code.
As I said before, the police may also enforce federal law. It is just a mater of filing the cases with the proper agency, DA or US Attorney.