PHI Crash in Louisiana Jan 2009 - 8 Dead, 1 Injured

[griffothefog]

AirWon,
Look forward to your 43rd post..... Should we give up on discussion and put our heads in the sand? We ALL suffer from these events and ALL want to learn from the tragic events of other brothers in the industry...
Grow up man.....

[AirWon]

Hang on a minute, lofty. You make a post with one of those little blue icons "things", presumably to emphasise some lame point; and then tell me to grow up. Even my 7 year old doesn't draw little pictures when writing.........

Some of you fellas are posting on the wrong forum.

...and just incase my post goes completely over your head.

Yes, we learn from all this.
Yes, cockpit voice/data recorders make this easier.
One none-dead passenger might give us a few more clues.
We know this ALREADY!
All the above does not qualify as GOOD NEWS!

See what you did? Now I'm using capitals in my posts!

I'm done. Working early tomorrow.

[zalt]

It is rare that GOM accidents make national news, certainly more than the day after. This one has, as USA Today has picked up on the 406MHz ELT beacon sparked a search.

Pilots slow to buy new digital emergency beacons - USATODAY.com

Before anyone else states the obvious:
Good News: that in the event of this unfortunate accident one was fitted a one person was rescued
Bad News: so few other aircraft are equipped. - As usual - well done FAA for being a proactive regulator... At least as a marine regulator the Coastguard have the smarts and the balls.

Am I right in thinking that Shell's PHI aircraft have European style Automatically Deployable ELTs (ADELTs)?

[Outwest]

Am I right in thinking that Shell's PHI aircraft have European style Automatically Deployable ELTs (ADELTs)?

I sure hope not.

IMHO, the most useless piece of kit I have ever seen and a danger to ground and maintenance personnel as well.

[tottigol]

All Shell twin engined aircraft have deployable CPIs.
I believe those come standard in all new S-76s, AW-139 and larger helicopters.
All ours have them anyway, that led to some pretty interesting calls from the USCG early on.
With my thought to the families of the crash victims I am really looking forward to finding out what the various recorders were able to do for them, but it seems to me that something very very bad must have happened very very quick, too quick.
In our hearts most of us probably know and in this forum we are adult enough to keep it to ourselves.

[bast0n]

There should be a filter in here somewhere so that we can weed out almost all of apart from SASless, 212man, John and a couple of others. They talk unemotional, informed sound common sense, with the stress on unemotional. Too much trite on the sleeve stuff around here.

[Fareastdriver]

IMHO, the most useless piece of kit I have ever seen and a danger to ground and maintenance personnel as well.

I don't get pissed off that often but that statement does. Equipment that hits the water and tells the whole world that you have ditched and where you have done it without any input from the pilot must be manna from heaven.

The Adelt has been a compulsory fit in the North sea for twenty years and I cannot remember an inadvertant discharge.

Useless pilots and useless ground and maintenance personnel if they can't cope with it.

[CH274]

Originally Posted by zalt

It is rare that GOM accidents make national news, certainly more than the day after. This one has, as USA Today has picked up on the 406MHz ELT beacon sparked a search.

Pilots slow to buy new digital emergency beacons - USATODAY.com

Before anyone else states the obvious:
Good News: that in the event of this unfortunate accident one was fitted a one person was rescued
Bad News: so few other aircraft are equipped. - As usual - well done FAA for being a proactive regulator... At least as a marine regulator the Coastguard have the smarts and the balls.

Am I right in thinking that Shell's PHI aircraft have European style Automatically Deployable ELTs (ADELTs)?

From link given, it does indicates that the aircraft is equipped with a CPI which works on 406 Mhz. It is deployable, by a small spring, if trigger it'll probably drop by the side or at most spring about 5-6 feet away... and it can also be trigger by 'G' switch.
The old, 'shoot' out ADELT works on 121.5Mhz.

But more important the thoughts and prayers goes to all that are directly affected.

[Troglodita]

F.E.D. - Oh Really?

without any input from the pilot

So exactly what causes this piece of "magic" to deploy? Correct me if I'm wrong but does it not require arming and the pushing of a button in the cockpit to cause it to deploy?

Whilst not agreeing at all with Outwest that an ADELT is absolutely useless, I personnaly feel that a 406 MHz beacon that stays with and transmits from the actual (moving with wind & tides) ditched or crashed aircraft is more beneficial.

The statement "manna from heaven" also seems a bit OTT when referring solely to an ADELT.
A Company which fits ADELTS will (unlike most if not all GOM Operators) also usually provides Pilots with PLB's such as the SARBE transmitting on 121.5 and 243 MHz or with personal 406 MHz transmitters so a survivable crash/ditching will usually permit surviving crew members to summon assistance individually.

Unfortunately the Switlik or similar with a strobe and a whistle still seems to be considered perfectly acceptable to far too many Operators.

Trog

[SASless]

212Man might be a better source...but I do believe there has been one for sure loss of an Adelt on the North Sea....without anyone hearing of until the post flight by an Engineer who discovered the thing missing. It was not heard or ever found as I recall.

At a failure rate then of something like one of zillions...I suggest the Adelt is a very good thing.

Trog's post is spot on!

It was a great leap backward when I saw the American way of flotation devices having been spoiled by Bristow...it was comforting to know you had both a homing beacon and ability to communicate with SAR aircraft in your PFD.

There is only one way the wee orange whistle compares to the SARBE and that is cost....other than that....it is totally useless.

The USCG requires I have one on my inflatable dinghy I use to get to the beach from my sail boat....the whole hundred yards or so....thus I reckon they figure I can summons help from afar. They also require a PFD for each occupant.

Funny thing....I have a boat kit that includes a portable VHF radio, flares, mirror, and human lung operated HORN that can raise the dead along in addition to the inflatable PFD's I carry for each person.

The minimum requirement set by the USCG and FAA are just that.....minimums. Careful consideration usually suggests going beyond that minimum to be adequately prepared.

[Old Skool]

The ADELT can be activated from the cockpit, either deployed or just transmitting, it also has a frangible switch on the belly should that be broken by sea or land contact the ADELT is deployed.

[Outwest]

The following comments are directed to the ADELTs historically fitted to S61s, as they are the only ones I am familiar with. If there are newer, safer ones, then some may not apply.

There have been numerous cases of accidentally deployed ADELTs, not sure how many in flight, but I know of at least 2 on the ground, and if someone had been standing near they would have been seriously injured.

I have had maintenance personnel describe the scheduled maintenance to these things like working on a hand grenade. I know of one instance where the spring shot the ADELT thru the shop window while in for annual check.

As to effectiveness, if they do deploy as designed, where is it going to be when they come looking for you? 5 miles downwind/upwind? I would much sooner have them homing on me than a cork in the sea.

A PLB is the only way to be assured of finding all pax and crew on a dark and stormy night.

I don't get pissed off that often

Sorry for the thread drift......last comment from me on this.

[soggyboxers]

Our latest S76C+ is equipped with an ADELT as it was a North Sea SAR machine. We also used to have ADELT fitted on our S76Bs when I was with Schreiner. These operated on both 121.5 and 243.0 MHz and also had an "I" band radar transponder. I never heard of a problem with inadvertent deployment from an aircraft on the ground. The beacon can be deployed by the pilots in flight and the spring ensures that the beacon is deployed far enough away from the aircraft that it isn't damaged. If not activated by the crew it deploys automatically by either:
- Frangible switches when a fragile structure deforms - in the case of the S76 this is normally on a chin window.
- Inertia switches which activate at 6G or a velocity increase of 3 feet per second
- A hydrostatic switch which normally activates at 5 bars or 10 feet
There is no magic switch which deploys it automatically until it contacts either land or water.

As Trogs says all our aircraft are also equipped with 406 Mhz transmitters, crew jackets have some form of SARBE and most of our aircraft also have beacons with the dinghy (ies) and often crew deployable beacons close to the pilots.

It is useless to speculate as to the cause at this stage and with all the information sources available to the various agencies investigating it shouldn't be too long before there is some indication as to the cause. It is notable that there has been no requirement to ground the S76 fleet.

Whatever the cause, i extend my condolences to the families of all the victims.

[oheightvette]

PHI Status

I was scheduled to fly PHI offshore Monday however I was told the PHI fleet is grounded at Amelia. Does anyone know the status of the Sabine Pass helicopter accident on or around Dec 11th 2008?

Thanks

[zalt]

soggyb You are correct in the case of FAA but not in terms of PHI's customer.

oheightvette:- On Monday are you still going by helicopter or by boat?

I wonder how long Shell Oil can refuse to use the 76 before they have to give in and reintroduce it? But first will other PHI 76 customers follow suit (BP & BHP)?

And - without wishing to restart the 'news' debate - what 'good news' is possible from NTSB would allow them to reverse their current position?

Footnote: I asked about the ADELT because it could just have been a fixed 406 ELT. I hope others found all the information about but can some one actually confirm if PHI have fitted ADELTs or not?

[Revolutionary]

PHI's C++ models have ADELTs.

[zalt]

Thanks for a straight answer!

[leading edge]

Currently, Shell personnel are going to the nearest S-92 capable platform and then being shuttled by EC135 to their destination platform if its not S-92 capable.

[tottigol]

............or they are using the heck out of the competition's 139s.

[tottigol]

Yes, that's Louisiana south of I-10 for ya'll.
She just walked out of the mobile home that morning and someone read her the news from the local Times Picayune, so she called her lawyer cousin and got the thing started.

I love the first three words:"The estranged wife"...