For existing AOC Helicopter OPS people
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For existing AOC Helicopter OPS people
Hi
I've just been landed the chance to study and qualify for the UK CAA helicopter Operations AOC certificate/qualification/person with badge/award. That's the good news (I think).
The problem is I need a brief from someone who holds the qualification about the remit, length of course, details of the exam type, duties, sort of pay you might expect etc.
This is not a wind up. My employer is moving into new territory with AOC helicopter operations and I've some limited experience in fixed wing (non-AOC) ops. I've got a PPL(A) with 140hours so I seem (aparently) best placed to feed through the system.
Can anyone throw any bones of advice my way?
Many thanks
I've just been landed the chance to study and qualify for the UK CAA helicopter Operations AOC certificate/qualification/person with badge/award. That's the good news (I think).
The problem is I need a brief from someone who holds the qualification about the remit, length of course, details of the exam type, duties, sort of pay you might expect etc.
This is not a wind up. My employer is moving into new territory with AOC helicopter operations and I've some limited experience in fixed wing (non-AOC) ops. I've got a PPL(A) with 140hours so I seem (aparently) best placed to feed through the system.
Can anyone throw any bones of advice my way?
Many thanks
Yes. 1) Dont do it.
2) Give me half the money you are planning on spending ......and i will have saved you half your money !!
But seriously ...your havin a laugh...arent you ???????
2) Give me half the money you are planning on spending ......and i will have saved you half your money !!
But seriously ...your havin a laugh...arent you ???????
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Clearly I'm missing the obvious here so please tell me what the issues, as you see them, are.
Like I said I have little experience of helicopters (desire to fly them or learn about them is no substitute) and - cap in hand - I've come in here to get peoples advice on the role of ground ops staff and the route to the CAA AOC qualification.
Like I said I have little experience of helicopters (desire to fly them or learn about them is no substitute) and - cap in hand - I've come in here to get peoples advice on the role of ground ops staff and the route to the CAA AOC qualification.
Ok, you need to work out what it is you need to hold in way of AOC etc. An AOC is just that, an Air Operators Certificate. You will need to produce a set of manuals as to how you're going to go about your business, guidelines available from the CAA website. There isn't any one such certificate as you would hold yourself as a qualification, unless i'm mistaken.
You'd need to nominate certain postholders in your company and have in place things like engineering and a Chief Pilot.
There is about 12 months of work and an absolute load of money required to set up your own AOC these days, and to be honest, unless you had so much work ready, it wouldn't really be worth the effort until the credit crunch etc is over. Not for the foreseeable future.
Check your Private Messages
You'd need to nominate certain postholders in your company and have in place things like engineering and a Chief Pilot.
There is about 12 months of work and an absolute load of money required to set up your own AOC these days, and to be honest, unless you had so much work ready, it wouldn't really be worth the effort until the credit crunch etc is over. Not for the foreseeable future.
Check your Private Messages
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Nibbler,
Did you step forward or did everyone else step back?
If your employer is large enough to hold an AOC, flying enough aircraft hours to make an AOC viable and wanting to take one on when others are looking (or being forced) to ditch theirs, then they would already know that they need an experienced person to implement an AOC.
Have they given you a budget, timescales and the aircraft they wish to operate?
I'd suggest your best option is to recommend that your employer take some consultancy from some of the more esteemed members of this forum who have helped others set up AOCs.
You've been handed a poison chalice, don't drink.
Did you step forward or did everyone else step back?
If your employer is large enough to hold an AOC, flying enough aircraft hours to make an AOC viable and wanting to take one on when others are looking (or being forced) to ditch theirs, then they would already know that they need an experienced person to implement an AOC.
Have they given you a budget, timescales and the aircraft they wish to operate?
I'd suggest your best option is to recommend that your employer take some consultancy from some of the more esteemed members of this forum who have helped others set up AOCs.
You've been handed a poison chalice, don't drink.
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There seems to be some confusion, for which I am sorry.
I am looking to become the Ops Manager for the AOC. Others are setting the AOC up (paying for it etc) I have been told there is a course and an exam the UK CAA require AOC Ops people to take and it this role / exam / training I am trying to find information about.
Cheers for your help so far.
I am looking to become the Ops Manager for the AOC. Others are setting the AOC up (paying for it etc) I have been told there is a course and an exam the UK CAA require AOC Ops people to take and it this role / exam / training I am trying to find information about.
Cheers for your help so far.
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It's been some time since I held that position both in a rotary and then fixed wing charter firms. Both occasions involved interviews with the CAA FOI responsible for each Company and they seemed more interested in experience gained in those types of field (ops) and the support available within the Company for ensuring safe and legal operations.
I suppose for someone who has never been involved in charter ops and AOC's it could be worthwhile going on an ops specific course covering all AOC legislation etc, however as a nominated position I don't know if the CAA would still require you to have some hands on experience, I would do as Mighty Gem suggests and phone them, it is they who have to sign you off.
I suppose for someone who has never been involved in charter ops and AOC's it could be worthwhile going on an ops specific course covering all AOC legislation etc, however as a nominated position I don't know if the CAA would still require you to have some hands on experience, I would do as Mighty Gem suggests and phone them, it is they who have to sign you off.
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Yes I think the suggestion to contact the CAA is a fair one. I was planning to arrive at the phone call with a little more than no knowledge, in an effort to avoid looking like a kiwi fruit.
firebird_uk made the point about being handed a poison chalice, I'm beginning to wonder!
firebird_uk made the point about being handed a poison chalice, I'm beginning to wonder!
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There is a course run by the British Helicopter Association (formerly the BHAB)to help to make commercial pilots suitable to act as a Chief Pilot. I think this runs for a week or so, but you should check.
However, you need to be a commercial helicopter pilot to do that course.
I don't think it is "do a certain course" which then guarantees the CAA will accept you. They look at past experience and knowledge - and from what you say you have very little.
In practice more than one person will be required to fulfil all the postholder roles required for an AOC. I am sure that the CAA will look at the qualifications and expereience of ALL those nominated postholders in determining acceptability.
There are no short cuts. If you want to take on the role you suggest, you will need to be familiar with the regulations themselves and CAA advice on setting up an AOC. Once you have read those you will have a much better idea of what is involved - a LOT of work and a massive admin burden AND a rapidly increasing membership fee - curtesy of new CAA proposals on charges.
My advice - do whatever it is you want to do some other way than having an AOC.
However, you need to be a commercial helicopter pilot to do that course.
I don't think it is "do a certain course" which then guarantees the CAA will accept you. They look at past experience and knowledge - and from what you say you have very little.
In practice more than one person will be required to fulfil all the postholder roles required for an AOC. I am sure that the CAA will look at the qualifications and expereience of ALL those nominated postholders in determining acceptability.
There are no short cuts. If you want to take on the role you suggest, you will need to be familiar with the regulations themselves and CAA advice on setting up an AOC. Once you have read those you will have a much better idea of what is involved - a LOT of work and a massive admin burden AND a rapidly increasing membership fee - curtesy of new CAA proposals on charges.
My advice - do whatever it is you want to do some other way than having an AOC.
I suspect that you are after a 'Nominated Post Holder' Course. Info is available on the JAA Website
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excrewingbod - thank you the link is proving very imformative.
I would, if anyone is currently in the job, like to have a chat about the job/role in gereral terms. Please PM me if you prefer.
Thank you!
I would, if anyone is currently in the job, like to have a chat about the job/role in gereral terms. Please PM me if you prefer.
Thank you!
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Nibbler,
I don't think there is any course as such that will qualify you to do Ops for an AOC operation. As an ex-employer of a number of Ops people, and a current Chief Pilot common sense and an ability to listen to your CP will probably serve perfectly well.
The CP should have been around and will have to be acceptable to the CAA. It is his responsibility to write the Ops Manual. You will need a maintenance guru who can look after your Continued Airworthiness - a whole seperate can of worms, cunningly designed by the CAA engineering hierarchy to dilute engineering safety (This is not a joke)
Go and visit an AOC operation (perhaps in a part of the country where you won't be a competitor!) and chinwag with the staff. Most of us are pretty quiet between now and February!
Lastly, I hope your boss has LOTS of money
Feel free to PM me for further
I don't think there is any course as such that will qualify you to do Ops for an AOC operation. As an ex-employer of a number of Ops people, and a current Chief Pilot common sense and an ability to listen to your CP will probably serve perfectly well.
The CP should have been around and will have to be acceptable to the CAA. It is his responsibility to write the Ops Manual. You will need a maintenance guru who can look after your Continued Airworthiness - a whole seperate can of worms, cunningly designed by the CAA engineering hierarchy to dilute engineering safety (This is not a joke)
Go and visit an AOC operation (perhaps in a part of the country where you won't be a competitor!) and chinwag with the staff. Most of us are pretty quiet between now and February!
Lastly, I hope your boss has LOTS of money
Feel free to PM me for further
