R44 Raven II vs Older 206
EN48, I just checked the NZ register and it appears there are *no* 480B's here!
On a related note, I hear that Enstrom are working on a stretched version of the 480B that will offer a more roomy 5 seats. Heard anything about that?
On a related note, I hear that Enstrom are working on a stretched version of the 480B that will offer a more roomy 5 seats. Heard anything about that?
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I fly charter and instruct on both R44 and JR, and honestly think the 44 does most things equally well if not better than JR. I have also got to say that the JR feels special still when I fly it but factoring in running costs vs performance and it would be R44 everytime for me.
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I hear that Enstrom are working on a stretched version of the 480B
Other rumors include a 200lb gross weight increase for the 480B, which makes lots of sense and I am told may be mostly a matters of testing and certification, not lots of new development. Also a return to elastomeric dampers for the MR, which Enstrom tried a few years ago, but had some problems with and withdrew from the market. Both of these would be meaningful improvements, but no "official" word yet.
Heh! I don't care what anyone sees me getting out of!
However I do like to have a decent view of where I am going and what the pilot is is up to.
But then again, I never claimed to speak for the poseurs of the world.
Now if I am sitting up front, then that is a different story.
However I do like to have a decent view of where I am going and what the pilot is is up to.
But then again, I never claimed to speak for the poseurs of the world.
Now if I am sitting up front, then that is a different story.
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You'll be in a 'class of 1' then, john. The majority of paying passengers (in my experience) would also rather be seen getting out of a JetBanger rather than an R44.
Give me a window seat anyday of the week.
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R44 versus B206
I've never heard so much bias on one thread for a long time.
I'd bet that the vast majority of the responders in favour of the 206 are all people who get paid to fly and/or have a background in the forces.
These types don't need to factor in economics.
Blimy, it's just tosh that the R44 should be "experimental". Why? On what basis?
Both the 206 and the 44 are great machines, and both do virtually the same thing if you are the person sitting in the right hand seat. They even feel similar to fly (yes I do fly both).
At least the 44 doesn't have the silly issues about parts marked "AB" not being compatible with parts marked "B". There are lots of horror stories about machines being grounded as unairworthy merely because some bits were made under licence in Europe.
As for the depreciation, you can buy a perfectly good R44 for GBP100k or less that has lots of years left. Buy one for (say) 90 grand with 500 hours and 8 years left and you've reduced your depreciation by over 50%.
For a private pilot that wants to own his or her helicopter and only flies 50 hours a year or less, then the depreciation pales into insignificance when you compare it to turbine costs, TT straps, fuel govenors, I could go on.
If anyone wants slighty less biased views, please PM me.
Big Ls.
I'd bet that the vast majority of the responders in favour of the 206 are all people who get paid to fly and/or have a background in the forces.
These types don't need to factor in economics.
Blimy, it's just tosh that the R44 should be "experimental". Why? On what basis?
Both the 206 and the 44 are great machines, and both do virtually the same thing if you are the person sitting in the right hand seat. They even feel similar to fly (yes I do fly both).
At least the 44 doesn't have the silly issues about parts marked "AB" not being compatible with parts marked "B". There are lots of horror stories about machines being grounded as unairworthy merely because some bits were made under licence in Europe.
As for the depreciation, you can buy a perfectly good R44 for GBP100k or less that has lots of years left. Buy one for (say) 90 grand with 500 hours and 8 years left and you've reduced your depreciation by over 50%.
For a private pilot that wants to own his or her helicopter and only flies 50 hours a year or less, then the depreciation pales into insignificance when you compare it to turbine costs, TT straps, fuel govenors, I could go on.
If anyone wants slighty less biased views, please PM me.
Big Ls.
The views that the R44 should be "experimental" is plain stupid - the best selling helicopter in the world DUHH 
. I own a Raven II, had a Raven 1 before that and as a private individual think it to be a great machine. NOW, if I was simply flying a machine for someone and they were picking up the costs and repairs then sure I think the JR wins hands down. I think it looks better and sounds better. I constantly look at the ads for 2nd hand or should that be 30th+ hand JR's but am put off by the maintenance costs. Lets face it your not going to get any crazy big surprises on the 44 but with the JR?? I do hate the Robinson 12 year thing, however, as biggles says, if you buy with the right hours/ years left it really doesnt matter. For what its worth, I had hoped the new 66 would have looked a bit more JR ish but alas not to be. Just remember, its always easy to sit in the side lines firing comments, you should really make sure only owners of either machine make comment. If you want any advice on the Raven II PM me.
. I own a Raven II, had a Raven 1 before that and as a private individual think it to be a great machine. NOW, if I was simply flying a machine for someone and they were picking up the costs and repairs then sure I think the JR wins hands down. I think it looks better and sounds better. I constantly look at the ads for 2nd hand or should that be 30th+ hand JR's but am put off by the maintenance costs. Lets face it your not going to get any crazy big surprises on the 44 but with the JR?? I do hate the Robinson 12 year thing, however, as biggles says, if you buy with the right hours/ years left it really doesnt matter. For what its worth, I had hoped the new 66 would have looked a bit more JR ish but alas not to be. Just remember, its always easy to sit in the side lines firing comments, you should really make sure only owners of either machine make comment. If you want any advice on the Raven II PM me.
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Don't agree with the statement, "......you should really make sure only owners of either machine make comment".
In my experience, it's the owners and operators who are often the least impartial, as they usually want to justify what they own or offer.
In my experience, it's the owners and operators who are often the least impartial, as they usually want to justify what they own or offer.
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Reality check
The difference is eating your breakfast, if you can open a bill for an unexpected 25K without choking on your cornflakes, you can afford the JR!
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EN480,
i can't wait to hear the reasons that justify the 4 times higher JR price....and why we can't compare the 2 machines.
Bring it on......!! Maybe i can learn something today!!
i can't wait to hear the reasons that justify the 4 times higher JR price....and why we can't compare the 2 machines.
Bring it on......!! Maybe i can learn something today!!
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Rotorspin - We haven't heard from you since the first post. Any of this coming in handy? I think some have forgotten that you wanted to use this machine privately, but still it makes a good arguement to compare things from a commercial view.
I know of a few private users that can afford JRs, squirrels, 500s; but they have a 44.
Never flown a JR myself, but fly a squirrel and 44. 44s are fast, economical, and good performance for what they are. Medium inertia blades give a good, safe auto. I have heard the JR also has a good auto. Lots said about blade issues with 44s, but how many are out there, and how many have issues? I don't know.
As far as the cyclic thing goes - sure it's ugly, but great for slopes when your knee would stop a traditional cyclic travel.
I know of a few private users that can afford JRs, squirrels, 500s; but they have a 44.
Never flown a JR myself, but fly a squirrel and 44. 44s are fast, economical, and good performance for what they are. Medium inertia blades give a good, safe auto. I have heard the JR also has a good auto. Lots said about blade issues with 44s, but how many are out there, and how many have issues? I don't know.
As far as the cyclic thing goes - sure it's ugly, but great for slopes when your knee would stop a traditional cyclic travel.
Depends what you want to do with it.
For private use a 44 makes a lot of sense, relatively cheap to operate, good vis, nice to fly with air-con for warmer climates.
The Jet-ranger adds a boot, extra seat, been around for ever so no surprises maintenance wise, very reliable, but comes with increased costs.
Commercial operations are a different story. As always it depends on the majority of work you do. We operate both, including a 120, Squirrel's, and others.
Jet-ranger wins hands down if you do a wide verity of work. You can pretty much do anything with one. Do you think you will ever see a 13,000 hour+ 44?
Don't see many using the Enstrom for commercial work though ...
For private use a 44 makes a lot of sense, relatively cheap to operate, good vis, nice to fly with air-con for warmer climates.
The Jet-ranger adds a boot, extra seat, been around for ever so no surprises maintenance wise, very reliable, but comes with increased costs.
Commercial operations are a different story. As always it depends on the majority of work you do. We operate both, including a 120, Squirrel's, and others.
Jet-ranger wins hands down if you do a wide verity of work. You can pretty much do anything with one. Do you think you will ever see a 13,000 hour+ 44?
Don't see many using the Enstrom for commercial work though ...
But if your private use Robbie only does 100 hours a year you are still forced to rebuild a half-lifed ship after 12 years? I bet many private owners get less than 100 a year too.