Helicopter Crash In Bettystown Ireland
Join Date: Jul 2006
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No runway
"No Blades
"JAA CPL with FAA PPL working commercially within a JAA state on an FAA PPL on N reg aircraft would it not be considered a technicallity"
Are you for real?"
what do you think? (just fishing, aware it common claim of freelance brigade)
Was this aircraft managed by this pilot's company for long? If he was acting as a hired gun for management company, was any training given (CRM, etc), and if he was, surely he would have a legal comeback on his employer for lack of on the job training?
If builder put forklift driver at controls of crane without proper training, the builder would be held to account when something brown hits the fan?
"No Blades
"JAA CPL with FAA PPL working commercially within a JAA state on an FAA PPL on N reg aircraft would it not be considered a technicallity"
Are you for real?"
what do you think? (just fishing, aware it common claim of freelance brigade)Was this aircraft managed by this pilot's company for long? If he was acting as a hired gun for management company, was any training given (CRM, etc), and if he was, surely he would have a legal comeback on his employer for lack of on the job training?
If builder put forklift driver at controls of crane without proper training, the builder would be held to account when something brown hits the fan?
PVT Ops.
read Sasless's post.
"incidental" to the job.
Think of it as the house and forklift belong to builder. Builders bricklayer can drive the forklift but thats not his primary job just like most people can drive a car or truck.
Maybe this guy was the accountant or something, if NOT, it's a big problem.
The operation would still be Part 91 but you need an FAA CPL minimum.
The FAA these days will only give you a "based on" validation to PPL level. Otherwise you have to meet the requirements of a full CPL. Pretty common arrangement around the world.
read Sasless's post.
"incidental" to the job.
Think of it as the house and forklift belong to builder. Builders bricklayer can drive the forklift but thats not his primary job just like most people can drive a car or truck.
Maybe this guy was the accountant or something, if NOT, it's a big problem.
The operation would still be Part 91 but you need an FAA CPL minimum.
The FAA these days will only give you a "based on" validation to PPL level. Otherwise you have to meet the requirements of a full CPL. Pretty common arrangement around the world.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Dublin,Ireland
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I'm wondering...
Early in the thread, there was mention of marine regulations which would restrict operation of the helicopter on the beach, which has an obvious open area, and presumably a suitable arrival/departure path which would enabel safe flight. For reasons of his own, the pilot chose not to use the beach (I'm presuming, based upon what I've read here).
No Marine regs just permission to land from the local County Council which in this case is Meath Co Co as Bettystown falls under their control as a public area.
Both the beach and the car park are NOT excempt from rule 3.....the beach because its a public area and the car park due to its proximity to a built up area i.e. Bettystown Town centre.
Whatever about the accident the insurance company will have a field day with this one!!!!!
Again well done to the pilot for getting out alive
Early in the thread, there was mention of marine regulations which would restrict operation of the helicopter on the beach, which has an obvious open area, and presumably a suitable arrival/departure path which would enabel safe flight. For reasons of his own, the pilot chose not to use the beach (I'm presuming, based upon what I've read here).
No Marine regs just permission to land from the local County Council which in this case is Meath Co Co as Bettystown falls under their control as a public area.
Both the beach and the car park are NOT excempt from rule 3.....the beach because its a public area and the car park due to its proximity to a built up area i.e. Bettystown Town centre.
Whatever about the accident the insurance company will have a field day with this one!!!!!
Again well done to the pilot for getting out alive
Join Date: Aug 2004
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So what have the IAA done or have they being doing to regulate this clearly gray area?
Why does it always take an accident for OSD to start jumping around the place patching regs that they knew for so long being breached?
Is this an EASA problem now?
Why does it always take an accident for OSD to start jumping around the place patching regs that they knew for so long being breached?
Is this an EASA problem now?
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Maybe time to start doing things by the book....... Anytime i get land owners permission to land i get it in writing because when things happen verbal permission seems to cause confusion.
And for rule 3, always allow yourself time from the IAA! If an accident does happen at least the suit from the insurance co cant do much once all the paperwork is in place.
And for rule 3, always allow yourself time from the IAA! If an accident does happen at least the suit from the insurance co cant do much once all the paperwork is in place.
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It's the getting permission from the IAA thats the problem. (14 days I think) What happens on Saturday morning when you get a call from the boss who wants to go to the races in Fairyhouse?
Sorry Boss, cant go cause the IAA haven't replied?
This removes the entire use of a helicopter to do last minute work. Now I know you always do have the option of going to a site more then 1km from the event, but then, if there more then 3 helis using it (3 in 3 out) you need H1 fire cover.... oh boy, this is a head ache....
Should OSD get more funding or a better directive or just re-write the regs to make them more understandable so we know clear as crystal what we can and can't do?
An EASA version of the FAR/AIM might be an idea? (could you imagine the size of it???)
Sorry Boss, cant go cause the IAA haven't replied?
This removes the entire use of a helicopter to do last minute work. Now I know you always do have the option of going to a site more then 1km from the event, but then, if there more then 3 helis using it (3 in 3 out) you need H1 fire cover.... oh boy, this is a head ache....
Should OSD get more funding or a better directive or just re-write the regs to make them more understandable so we know clear as crystal what we can and can't do?
An EASA version of the FAR/AIM might be an idea? (could you imagine the size of it???)
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Anyone see this?
They're using the word 'Hero' in parentheses now...
Crash 'hero' pilot Bill Curry comes under scrutiny - Times Online
The whole thing stinks if you ask me...
Crash 'hero' pilot Bill Curry comes under scrutiny - Times Online
The whole thing stinks if you ask me...
Chief Bottle Washer
From the Times Online:
"In fact the press may use it"
It's at the bottom of every page of PPRuNe
One anonymous pilot on the Professional Pilots’ Rumour Network said in a post last week: “Helicopters are being treated like taxis. [People are saying] Park her up in the car park there with the other cars. ’Twill be grand.”
"In fact the press may use it"
It's at the bottom of every page of PPRuNe
Join Date: Aug 2007
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I don't know where the idea that the IAA "can't touch" N-reg aircraft or their pilots who hold FAA licences comes from. There is ample legal provision for prosecution of any pilot in breach of legislation.
In summary, S.13 of the Air Navigation and Transport Act of 1946 makes it an offence to be in breach of any order or regulation made under any order made under the Act. This Section has not been repealed since then (so far as I can tell) and thus remains the legal basis upon which any prosecution can be brought for any one of a number of offences arising from breaches of the various Orders and Regulations.
The Irish Aviation Authority has become empowered by the Irish Aviation Authority Act, 1993 as the responsible authority for the enforcement of legislation.
So, if we take Rule 2 of the Irish Aviation Authority (Rules of the Air) Order as an example -
Rule 2. Negligent or Reckless Operation
An aircraft shall not be operated in a negligent or reckless manner so as to endanger life or property.
The Rule (or the Order itself) doesn't say anything about the nationality of the aircraft or the licence of the pilot.
The only reason prosecutions haven't been taken against offenders for breaches of this rule (and many others) would seem to be simply because the IAA haven't done it - not because they can't do it.
Why not, I wonder?
In summary, S.13 of the Air Navigation and Transport Act of 1946 makes it an offence to be in breach of any order or regulation made under any order made under the Act. This Section has not been repealed since then (so far as I can tell) and thus remains the legal basis upon which any prosecution can be brought for any one of a number of offences arising from breaches of the various Orders and Regulations.
The Irish Aviation Authority has become empowered by the Irish Aviation Authority Act, 1993 as the responsible authority for the enforcement of legislation.
So, if we take Rule 2 of the Irish Aviation Authority (Rules of the Air) Order as an example -
Rule 2. Negligent or Reckless Operation
An aircraft shall not be operated in a negligent or reckless manner so as to endanger life or property.
The Rule (or the Order itself) doesn't say anything about the nationality of the aircraft or the licence of the pilot.
The only reason prosecutions haven't been taken against offenders for breaches of this rule (and many others) would seem to be simply because the IAA haven't done it - not because they can't do it.
Why not, I wonder?
n administrator concerned with procedural correctness at the expense of people's needs
Well it looks like he's starting to hang out there, drying in the wind. If he qualified in 2006, how many hours do we think he has, especially on twins?
Anyone know, just purely out of interest. ??
Anyone know, just purely out of interest. ??
I have now been suitably enlightened, and will post no further on this thread, for fear of just being called plain mean!
PS, I have just realised, if he only had an US CPL then doesn't that allow you to fly anything within certain weight categories, rather than type?
PS, I have just realised, if he only had an US CPL then doesn't that allow you to fly anything within certain weight categories, rather than type?
if he only had an US CPL
Moderator
It has been recently reported that there was the violation and fining of a pilot for landing an R44 within the built up area of a town, somewhere in Quebec. The fine was in the order of $3500 for the single event. Fines seem to usually be in the low hundreds, not the mid thousands for a single event. It would appear that Transport Canada takes this very seriously!
It would appear that the event at Bettystown validates their concern!
Pilot DAR
It would appear that the event at Bettystown validates their concern!
Pilot DAR