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SARH to go

Old 6th Dec 2009, 16:26
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"it's not a question of moving on from a golden age, all things change - I accept that as part of life. But when you get to my age and have seen some of the 'changes' that have been implemented, for what seems like all good reasons at the time, but are often the result of 'empire building' and ambitious individuals rather than through a real need for change, one can be rather cynical about claims made to support such change."
crab been there seen that then when X month, years, later another good idea is thought of !! it would appear they have thought of the old (NEW) way again Great if it did not cost, but every time more waste, of people, skills & resources.
Why reinvent the wheel? I have found the old adage if it aint broke no need to fix it! works well.
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Old 7th Dec 2009, 16:15
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...with 66 mil pers remaining in SAR all on pensionable service and plenty with kids at boarding school...
Oh so have the 66 been identified already then?

Or are you just hoping crab??!!

In fact same mate's wife's bird who heard the last rumour I mentioned also suggested that the 66 was looking a bit iffy and that the contractor may decide to go it alone......

rumours rumours got to love them really.....so when do we get to know who has won?
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Old 7th Dec 2009, 20:42
  #1263 (permalink)  
 
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66 mil pers on allowances......

66 pers = 3 SAR flights ? give or take? no engineers?

That saves 5 SAR flights plus support staff, that'll be a saving of about 250 pensions then?

Wonder when it'll go Pete Tong and be canx with GBs great big savings plan!!!!!

P'too
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Old 8th Dec 2009, 10:13
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Get with the program pasptoo - our engineers were civilianised 18 months ago so no pension savings there either.

Spanish - at my time of life the RAF are unlikely to retrain me to do anything else so I would hope to stay in SAR
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Old 8th Dec 2009, 10:51
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Spanish - at my time of life the RAF are unlikely to retrain me to do anything else so I would hope to stay in SAR
In Your dreams Crab In your dreams
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Old 8th Dec 2009, 10:55
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Do you honestly believe you will be able to play: Poacher turned gamekeeper?
Can you imagine the dilemma of keeping a moral hand grenade in amongst the great unwashed

I'd make plans if I was you..............
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Old 8th Dec 2009, 12:38
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Follow the leader?

Do you honestly believe you will be able to play: Poacher turned gamekeeper?
Can you imagine the dilemma of keeping a moral hand grenade in amongst the great unwashed
If the previous RAF SARF Commander, who was a fervent opponent of SARH, can take a job with one of the bidders then why can't Crab?
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Old 8th Dec 2009, 14:55
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SAR without Crab? unthinkable!!
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Old 8th Dec 2009, 17:03
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...and there was me thinking that the 66 mil in SAR-H was all about providing SAR experience back to the front line....silly me...so its actually all about providing the old boys of SAR who don't want to go civvy otherwise they lose their boarding school allowances somewhere to quietly retire....

please tell me I'm wrong
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Old 8th Dec 2009, 21:38
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Spanish - the 66 was supposed to be the minimum number required to allow for 'rest tours' and to keep a steady trickle of SAR experience going to SH. But no-one is going to be sent on rest tours (from SH anyway, the junglies might do it though) because of the cost of training guys onto a new aircraft type just for 3 years and then retraining them will be prohibitive - and that's just the pilots, the winchmen with all their paramedics hoops to jump through would be even less likely. Those 66 will also be spending a lot of time in the Falklands - I'm off there again at xmas - since the SARH contract doesn't seem to include that bit any more.

The lack of night capability in Cyprus of 84 Sqn and the miniscule number of SAROPs the Cypriots let them do means that capability could well be sh*tcanned to save more cash so they won't need SAR crews either. SAR experience is not really a requirement on SH, especially given their roles and theatres over the last few years.

Few guys and girls will be sent as first tourists to SAR because it will be a major career foul so the only people left to populate those 66 posts will be the more mature variety and those looking to get their licences and jump ship.

Not quite sure why there is such bitterness about boarding school allowance - it is and always has been a retention measure and works very well across all 3 services, a multitude of ranks and far more non-aviators than aviators.

If I can stay in, fly the new SAR aircraft and live somewhere decent then I will - if not, I will have to jump ship and see if my professional credentials are good enough to get me a job with the company (whoever wins).

Not quite sure how taking many years of SAR operational and instructional experience to civvy street is being a poacher turned gamekeeper - that was 20 years ago when I became a QHI
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Old 8th Dec 2009, 22:43
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1000hrs minimum to join SARH - compulsory requirement by sarh-pt.
No bow wave of pilots for converting to the new type.(sarh pt).
66 crew for SARH, of which 44 are RAF and 22 are RN. (sarh pt)
There will be a mix of flying limits, both civvy and mil, encapsulated by an appropriately named AOC.

Crab: Did I just read correctly what you just said:

"...see if my professional credentials are good enough to get me a job with the company..."

They can never be in doubt - those who know you would all agree on that......that's not the problem though is it? Senior SARH management read this forum often. 'Bridges' and 'Burning' come to mind. Perhaps you could train the new paramedic aircrew?
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Old 9th Dec 2009, 07:12
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Crab,

The winning bidder would be silly to knock back an experienced body like yourself. As one who has come from the military where good training is just a way of life, you just have to smile and bear it when you see all the silly things happening around you (remembering that as you are in the service, you have seen some absolute stupidity as well). Remember, at the end of the day, it's just a job and the main thing is to get home to your family post shift.

And if you are lucky enough to remain in uniform whilst playing with new aircraft, you will still have to maintain a diplomatic stance if you wish to get anywhere. You never know, you might learn something from someone and teach something to someone, all whilst doing a job you like.

No matter what you think, the light at the end of the tunnel might not be a train (or might be). Just have to be quick on your feet both ways.
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Old 9th Dec 2009, 07:29
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Sunnywa
You never know, you might learn something from someone and teach something to someone, all whilst doing a job you like.
I'm already doing exactly that At the moment I am a flt pilot doing shifts, a flight QHI doing training and mentoring, the Sqn QHI doing catchecks and upgrades and an OCU doing Mk3A refresher and conversion - keeps me busy!!

Seniortrooper
Senior SARH management read this forum often. 'Bridges' and 'Burning' come to mind.
I have never been and never will be a 'yes' man - if I think something is wrong I will say so - living in a climate of fear and being scared of your own shadow is no way to exist. If the future management were that petty I really don't think I would want to work for them anyway
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Old 9th Dec 2009, 10:06
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sarh

Hi Crab,
Bad news i'am afraid, OHHHHHH how they LOVE yes men, the truth is often ignored, and yes they are that petty!!
Many worries you have are spot on, having said that, the professionalism amoungst the coalface workers is equal to any military unit ( after all 70% of the crews in most civ bases are ex mil), and the them and us Civ v Mil debate is almost non existant, its a job we do to the best of our ability, with the kit supplied with at the time, thankfully, we all appear to get the same results at the end of the day I for one would not give a damn as to what colour, type, or mil/civ rescue helicopter , that would come to my aid if in trouble. Compared to many other parts of the world, we are very lucky to have this excellent service around the British isles and Ireland. Lets just hope it stays that way.
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Old 9th Dec 2009, 19:22
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Spamalot

How do you know what senior SARH senior management like or dislike? Do you work for Soteria or Air Knight???
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Old 10th Dec 2009, 15:19
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Spamalot

One of the bidders definitely does NOT like yes men. Trust me, I know
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Old 23rd Dec 2009, 08:59
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Off track a little, but can anyone confirm if the MCA CNIS / SAR Islander has been pulled from Manston early? Have been hearing rumours!
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Old 4th Jan 2010, 13:56
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And the SAR-H winner is.......

The end is apparently in sight!

Ministry of Defence and Department for Transport officials will choose between two bids – believed to be very closely matched on price – by the end of the month.
The first team, called Soteria, is made up of French defence company Thales, the Royal Bank of Scotland, and helicopter operator CHC, which is already doing search and rescue from four UK bases, under an interim contract with the Maritime and Coastguard Agency. Soteria plans to use the S92 helicopter made by Sikorsky of the US.
The second bidder, called AirKnight, is composed of VT Group, US defence giant Lockheed Martin and British International Helicopters. That team will use the Eurocopter EC225 helicopter, made by EADS.
There are currently 40 Sea Kings carrying out Britain's coastal and inland search and rescue from 12 bases, but it is expected the new fleet of aircraft will be reduced to between 25 and 30, because they will be faster and require less maintenance.
Search and rescue is carried out by either the Navy, the RAF or the coastguard, which each run different bases. After the PFI comes in, most staff will be employed by the private contractor with a small number of Navy and RAF personnel.
After choosing the preferred bidder in January, the Government will aim to get a contract signed by April in order to give the winning team enough time to get ready to take over in 2012. However, people familiar with the process expect the signing of the contract to be put off until after a general election.
The preferred bidder will also have to get its financing in place between January and the contract date. RBS is an equity partner in the Soteria bid, but will not necessarily be the lead bank in the financing. AirKnight is expected to use three or four banks.
The role of RBS in the bid has raised concerns of a conflict of interest, with the bank almost wholly owned by the state and bidding for government work.
The MoD insists the involvement of RBS does not raise a conflict of interest and the winner will be chosen after a "competitive process conducted in accordance with the European Union procurement regulation".
Search-and-rescue helicopter £5bn PFI deal nears take off - Telegraph
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Old 5th Jan 2010, 11:26
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Not before bl**dy time either - the final result will be interesting especially if the IPT's 'favourite' bidder turns out to be the official preferred one!
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Old 5th Jan 2010, 16:33
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Don't hold your breath!
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