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SARH to go

Old 15th Jul 2009, 12:17
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Black, orange and white according to the picture in the Airknight promo material from Paris.

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/paris/...HT-PAS2009.pdf

and

PARIS 2009: AirKnight opens the SAR-H door | Shephard Group

Though still red and white on the Soteria release

Soteria team hails S-92 performance for UK's SAR-H deal
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Old 15th Jul 2009, 14:35
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and there's more.......

News from Lockheed Martin UK

and

http://www.vtplc.com/Media/Pressrele...ightadvancesS/
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Old 18th Jul 2009, 06:08
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SAR-H Colour Scheme

Hi SM (& others so interested).

A closer review of the AK colour scheme shows dark blue and orange with some red detailing. - Why? - not a chance choice for sure- they are the basics of the UK lifeboat scheme - SAR-H aircraft (in part) being the "lifeboats of the air" (I know -I can hear many saying that there are more overland jobs than sea these days... but that's not the point...).

The rationale was straight forward - choose a scheme that is different from all 3 present UK SAR operators (and avoid all the inevitable internecine warfare at senior levels that choice of any of the present ones will create (maybe?) - also help establish a new UK SAR-H corporate identity and ethos, and of course, in a very simplistic way, associate the similar rescue activites of the new UK SAR-H service with that of the RNLI given the long and continuing association of UK SAR helos and the RNLI over the last 6 decades. It might help create a unified identity to the UK public too.

Why do I know? - those of you who know me know why.....

Cheers
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Old 24th Jul 2009, 17:30
  #1084 (permalink)  
 
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Pumps

Local news have it that CHC operated Rescue Helicopters will not carry the current pumps to vessels because the pumps cannot be secured in the aircraft. New light weight pumps on order! MOD aircraft ops as normal.
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Old 25th Jul 2009, 06:50
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The way the country's finances are going, the choice of RNLI livery may well be appropriate since we might find ourselves needing charitable donations to maintain a service

Sonas - is that 139 and S-92? Seems rather strange it has taken this long for the issue to raise its head.
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Old 25th Jul 2009, 08:58
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It wasn't like that in my day..........

because the pumps cannot be secured in the aircraft
What! No P strops or lashing tape then?
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Old 25th Jul 2009, 10:51
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Hi Think its the S92's cause its Sumburgh and Stornoway been mentioned
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Old 25th Jul 2009, 12:32
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What! No P strops or lashing tape then?
Maybe a much better product was promised that would be cheaper and better than the old-fashioned military solution yet strangely failed to do the job asked of it so the whole pump-aircraft interface had to be completely redesigned
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Old 26th Jul 2009, 22:00
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Just another day in the life of procurement, looking at bottom line but not joining the dots, how often do you find the cheapest is not the best? plus read the small print
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Old 8th Aug 2009, 18:43
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Chivenor going down to day operations only?

BBC NEWS | UK | England | Devon | 'Day only' rescue helicopter plan

Should allow much more time for Ppruning, politicking and generally farting around on the internet!
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Old 9th Aug 2009, 05:59
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Mr Davies clearly doesn't understand the concept that 'no lesser service' implies when considering the new contract post 2012.

There is no way, even with the fastest helicopters in the world that you can meet, let alone exceed present or historical concurrency and surge incident levels at night with fewer bases. Once the aircraft from either Culdrose or Valley is tasked to an incident there is now no overlap cover or ability to manage concurrent SAROps for a huge area of the W of England and Wales.

For some reason Chivenor has been the target of several attempts to prove SAR bases can be reduced which, when you consider the size of our patch and the number of jobs we do (over 200 so far this year) is rather ridiculous and a good proportion of them are at night.

When you also consider how busy the flights at Valley and Culdrose are (also at night), how are they going to mop up the extra tasking from Devon, North Cornwall and S Wales without someone losing out and not getting a helicopter when they need it.

All the analysis of response times, range and job frequency conveniently ignores the fact that the W coast of UK is a busy place in terms of maritime, coastal and mountain activity and 2 aircraft at night for the whole area is not enough, especially as there is no second standby aircraft in the new contract.

The ability to use a SAR helicopter for a nighttime medtransfer (relatively common) to specialist hospitals in London and the Midlands would denude huge areas of UK if we are down to 9 bases an mean that those requests would simply have to be turned down or risk leaving massive holes in SAR cover.

This letter is, I suspect, a precursor to the SARH announcement and discussions with probably the cheapest bidder because both consortia have expressed concerns that the contract can't be achieved within the prescribed budget. All the worries that this whole process would produce a less capable and profit-driven service are coming to pass

All UK SAR needs is some new aircraft, not a huge new empire and a £5BN contract but the politicians and the MoD leadership can't or won't see this. In the face of present public spending defecits how on earth can you justify £5Bn for less aircraft and poorer cover?

It is like suggesting that having fewer but faster ambulances or fewer but fitter policemen will improve NHS service or reduce crime rates and giving the taxpayer an even bigger bill to deal with - frankly it's criminal.

And finally, having just had an early call-in because the overnight crew have done nearly 7 hours of night SAROPs, I think the minister really ought to look carefully at what he is suggesting.

And having gone through the job book this mornin, 45 of our jobs since Jan 1 09 have been at night after 2100 - who will be doing those then?

Last edited by [email protected]; 9th Aug 2009 at 10:59.
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Old 9th Aug 2009, 11:34
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Welcome to the world of civil aviation. SAR is not the sacred cow that you seem to think it is and SARH will probably go to the lowest bidder who will possibly not provide the current level of service and cover. But change is coming and you will have to learn to live with it. You may even have to take your own laptop to work.
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Old 9th Aug 2009, 12:37
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What I don't understand is, We as Tax payers are going for a Private SAR service with less aircraft,crews,& cover, Cost £5 bn ? over 5 years, if I have read things correctly.
We are still going to have to pay the Mil crews to train on top of this cost where is the saving ???, still the powers that make the decisions will be OK, when it goes wrong they will have lessons to learn, it was the correct decision at the time, we will have a s tragic review etc. etc. so many questions no real answer
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Old 9th Aug 2009, 13:16
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Epiphany - I accept the point that change is coming but what is driving that change is the real issue. The taxpayer has to pay for the Govt to discharge its responsibility for SAR in the UK region whichever way you cut it; the Military element of SAR would not cost £5Bn to provide for the next 25 years (25 years for the SARH contract 500e) so why is the taxpayer being asked to cough up that amount to replace it (and the 4 existing civsar flts) which I don't think costs £200 million per year.

That works out (with 12 SAR flts) at £16.5 million per flight per year - what is the price of a new aircraft? For less than 2 years expenditure you could provide all 12 flights with new aircraft and retain the present Mil/civ crewing and have aircraft that would last a least 10 years.

The whole point of SARH was that it would provide a better service (or at least as good) with value for money for the UK taxpayer - it looks as if it will fail on both counts. It is utter madness.

Just like privatising the utilities companies we will be writing a blank cheque to the service providers and allow them to take big profits when things go well and come crawling to the chancellor for cash when unforseen (well by them anyway) circumstances affect their bottom line.

Before long we will have 'EASY-SAR' provided by the very cheapest bidder where every rescue is charged to the rescuee (and they will charge extra if they have to rescue your bags as well).
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Old 9th Aug 2009, 16:10
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'EASY-SAR'
is that why Air Knight have orange as part of the paint scheme.
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Old 9th Aug 2009, 16:27
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It is utter madness.
That seems to be a prerequisite for decisions made by the present government unfortunately.
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Old 9th Aug 2009, 19:33
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EasySAR? Does that mean they tell you they're taking you to the N Devon District Hospital but drop you at the Rock Park Park and Ride instead because the landing fees are cheaper and there's a convenient bus service?
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Old 10th Aug 2009, 08:31
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So let's think Culdrose to Bristol is what...180 miles?,Lee to Gloucester is say 80 miles??
Picture this ....Drunks go paddling at night at Weston super Mare and get lost in the mud as the tide turns (second highest rise and fall in the world ).No helicopter at Chivenor so Lee ,Culdrose or Valley the only option.How much longer will it take to get there,how long can it stay on scene and will it be too late ?
OR ..more floods in Gloucestershire as river burst its banks at 8pm at night and all helicopters needed to rescue residents.How many can actually get there within the hour and do the job ?
Above based on real scenarios recently ......two people going for an early morning swim and even the Chivenor Sea King failed to find them in time ....floods in Cornwall and Gloucestershire/Worcester.
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Old 10th Aug 2009, 09:38
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So let's think Culdrose to Bristol is what...180 miles?,
think you are a bit over try 120nm
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Old 10th Aug 2009, 10:54
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Easy Sar

Crab

EasySAR might not be to bad. However if the idea gets out it could be RYANSAR and that would be something to worry about. Meters on the oxygen and Entonox and 30 quid extra for each broken limb.
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