Skycop9

I Fly a Bell 407 which has the Chelton EFIS system in it. If you would be interested in photo's email me and I will include digital phot's. I also fly a 407 with the standard flight and engine instruments.
Just provide me with an email address.

HeliRoute

Has anyone tried X-Plane as a useful trainer?
I've been using it the las three months to play with, using the Bell 430 and Augusta A109.

slowrotor

I used X-Plane to learn hovering. Was able to hover the R22 and S300 on the first lesson because of the X-plane practice.
Did not help for approaches, I found the real thing more challenging in that case.

Horror box

I found it very useful as a procedural trainer when i was doing my IR as most of the radio navaids are accurately portrayed, and you can use actual weather/wind. Didnt bother trying to handle it, just used a generic aircraft with autopilot to fly the thing with some stability and concentrated on the procedures. The IOS facitlity is also very useful for seeing how you tracking/holding/point to point etc works out, but that is about it. Havent used it since though. Definitley NOT worth trying to practice/learn any handling on it. Learning to hover on a computer game - definitely not, unless you have a full control set up with hydraulic motion!

Hilico

I have to agree with Slowrotor and disagree with HorrorBox - you can make useful progress with a desktop sim. With gaps of years between rides, it was all I had, and I could see the difference when it got to hovering.

EDIT: Just talked to Fast at Thruxton - they've got a proper sim (fixed but that's not a prob) and the word on the street is, they're thinking of having a day for low/no time heli drivers sometime soon. I had a go at Helitech last year and it's fackin brill. I hope this isn't advertising, and I have no connection with the company blah blah blah.

Horror box

Sorry Hilico we have to agree to disagree on this one. The flight characteristics of a desktop and a helicopter are so different, I think you are really kidding yourself if you think you can learn to handle from a desktop computer sim. Basic handling is far more about feel and and real visual cues, including all the kinaesthetics that go with actually being in the machine, allowing your senses to enable you to learn muscle memory and coordination. Even full motion level D sims do not accurately represent hover charateristics. They provide a more realistic simulation, but they are still very different from the real thing. You can actually get into some very bad habits early on from learning to fly a sim. I have yet to fly a simulator that can actually portray the low level/low speed/hover characteristics of the real helicopter. Some of the newer one are getting closer though.

helimutt

The 'sim' that Fast will be using is a one used by a few operators for IR training. It is overly sensitive, usually based on a Jet ranger etc, runs on Microsoft Flight Sim2002 and is only a FNPT2. (Procedural Trainer) It is not intended to teach you to fly so I wouldn't call it a simulator as such, but I guess it can't hurt. For what you pay per hour, it'd not cost much more to use the real thing (cheap R22)

I speak from experience having spent 40 hours in one of those boxes!!!

MSP Aviation

I think that you are quite wrong. With no experience other than dedicated use of Microsoft's Flight Sim I was hovering and making pedal turns after forty minutes in my first lesson w/ 14kt winds.

HeliRoute

Thanks for your thoughts and replies.
I spent many hours practising hovering on x-plane, purely for hand/pedal/eye co-ordination. As it is difficult to get proper reference with the ground on a 2d sim I had to rely on the instruments. That said, my second lesson in an r22 concentrated on hovering due to poor weather conditions.
I had it hovering maintaining position and direction in a couple of mins and put that down to the co-ordination practise in x-plane.

2papabravo

X-plane better than Flight Sim X for the rotary side?

MSP Aviation

Anything is better than Flight Sim X for anything but eye candy. Go with Flight Sim 2004. Using the default B206, be sure to set the "general" realism slider to 90% or else it is unrealistically uncontrolable.

HeliRoute

The robbo is really twitchy in X-Plane. The S61 is nice to fly. I bought Jason Chandler's add on Augusta 109 and Bell 430.
The benefit with X-plane is the additional feature of equipment/instrument/engine failure sim. If you try to cut the engine in FS2004 the chopper just spins, whereas in X-plane, it reacts as best as you'd expect from any sim.
Loads of fixed wing opportunities as well but havent really had a go with them properly.

Shawn Coyle

As one who did the flying to get several of the sims certified in the UK, I can probably say with some certainty that you can use the sims to learn to hover. It's a question of how the instructor does it, just like in the real helicopter.
I had the manufacturer set up a special area for teaching hovering, with lots of vertical cues, and it really did make a difference in teaching someone how to learn the basics of hovering.
There have been several people who have spent considerable time in the sims and then gone straight out and hovered nearly perfectly.
That having been said, I know of two helicopter pilots who taught themselves how to fly a helicopter - without any instruction - in real helicopters....
(if that doesn't get the thread going, I don't know what will)

zerospeedit

I have used x-plane to brush-up on particular procedures prior to an IR test. I've dabbled with x-plane helicopter models, but prefer to fly it on the Flight Director of the King Air as I don't really rate the handling aspects as worthwhile and I want to concentrate on the procedure and the mental arithmetic.
As for hovering, I find even multi-million pound dynamic simulators provide a fairly rudimentary likeness of true hovering so are of limited value IMO until you're in forward flight. Even so, if a bit of time on x-plane prior to your flying lesson gives you that bit more confidence then that can only be a good thing.

helimutt

anyone know of an addition to flight sim using an RD-650 HSI and also an AD-650H ADI.??

EN48

I have had great success with a desktop sim (Elite ver 8) for maintaining instrument proficiency in airplanes. However, I found that to make this work really well, it was necessary to add a fairly complete set of external airplane controls/radios. In other words, flying with a keyboard dosesnt cut it. I am about to begin training for an Instrument-Helicopter rating and would like to give X Plane or FS a try. Just wondering if anyone is using external helicopter like controls with this software, and, if so, which are recommended?

Simon853

I've recently finished writing a program that runs alongside MS Flight Sim and plays with the flight dynamics at run-time, adding in a lot of missing behaviours.

The default coefficients are tuned to give a roughly half-decent response to the standard Flight Simulator X Bell 206. (For Flight Simulator 2004 you should set the general realism in the sim to about 90% and use my default settings.)

If anyone wants to give it a go, you can download it here: http://www.mediafire.com/?9zjcu5zeenc

You'll also need to google for and download FSUIPC.dll. (Note that you don't need the registered version.)

Since my program is free to use (for non-commercial use) I hope this doesn't constitute advertising!

Regards,

Si

TiPwEiGhT

Even a full motion simulator is hard to hover, and that's after you have got over the motion sickness on your first go... then you start getting the hang of it! TiP

EN48

"Even a full motion simulator is hard to hover"

I have tried three different 206 FTD's (sims without motion) and found all a challenge to hover compared tyo the real deal. Shawn Coyle has pointed out that hovering is made more difficult by the absence of certain "vertical" cues, and I think that this may be the problem with these sims. As one approaches to hover height, the detail (texture) of ground objects begins to blur on the visual diaplay, and the hovering goes to hell.

Saud J.

Hi all,
I'm looking for simulator that can be connected to the internet (like the network game). Helicopter prefered.

Your responce and information are highly treasured.