Police Industrial Action
Now y'all see here!
The problem with guys like bugdevheli " Who lives on a Hill" is that they do not understand our pension scheme! OK Yes I agree we have a good pension scheme ( I am very happy drawing it!) But most of the critics really do not understand that we pay for it! How many of you are required to pay 11% of your pay each month into the pension scheme? And on top of that 11% you also have to pay all of the other deductions that everyone else has to pay too. It s bad enough when you have 20 years in, but just picture yourself as a probationer, Getting all of the Sh** dangerous jobs for very meager pay & still getting that 11% deducted. No choice by the way, - its compulsory!
So don't give me that crap about such a great pension. Yes it is! But we also pay through the nose for it!
Thats why the Police are so bitter. They do the job, - at the sh**** end of society, & then some smart A** comes along & suggests that somehow they don't deserve decent treatment, & are too well paid already!
I too agree that our Police observers need more consideration. What bloody idiot decided that they are not front line? I bet they've not flown on a dark, wet blowy night on a dodgy job, or been an important link in Bronze command saving the guys on the ground from getting encircled during a riot situation.
Why does Scotland value the services of their observers as true front line officers, but our guys in England doing the same job arn't?
This is the same Gov't that is happy to have RAF Nimrod's in their late 30's still flying in dangerous operations. Puma's that were bought by the RAF in 1971 refurbished rather than replaced like every other Country has done. The Navy cut back to half a dozen rowing boats, & the Army terribly overstretched? If you serve your country do NOT expect your government to repay you!
OK thats it, - Rant over! I feel better now!
Tigerfish
The problem with guys like bugdevheli " Who lives on a Hill" is that they do not understand our pension scheme! OK Yes I agree we have a good pension scheme ( I am very happy drawing it!) But most of the critics really do not understand that we pay for it! How many of you are required to pay 11% of your pay each month into the pension scheme? And on top of that 11% you also have to pay all of the other deductions that everyone else has to pay too. It s bad enough when you have 20 years in, but just picture yourself as a probationer, Getting all of the Sh** dangerous jobs for very meager pay & still getting that 11% deducted. No choice by the way, - its compulsory!
So don't give me that crap about such a great pension. Yes it is! But we also pay through the nose for it!
Thats why the Police are so bitter. They do the job, - at the sh**** end of society, & then some smart A** comes along & suggests that somehow they don't deserve decent treatment, & are too well paid already!
I too agree that our Police observers need more consideration. What bloody idiot decided that they are not front line? I bet they've not flown on a dark, wet blowy night on a dodgy job, or been an important link in Bronze command saving the guys on the ground from getting encircled during a riot situation.
Why does Scotland value the services of their observers as true front line officers, but our guys in England doing the same job arn't?
This is the same Gov't that is happy to have RAF Nimrod's in their late 30's still flying in dangerous operations. Puma's that were bought by the RAF in 1971 refurbished rather than replaced like every other Country has done. The Navy cut back to half a dozen rowing boats, & the Army terribly overstretched? If you serve your country do NOT expect your government to repay you!
OK thats it, - Rant over! I feel better now!
Tigerfish
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I am on shift now with 3 long serving policemen. They are furious with the government, but they all doubt that they would strike. They will however vote yes for the 'right to strike' and would take part in a work in accordance with the rules. At the minute, police in our force reluctantly accept illegal (yes, illegal!) working directives. ALL leave and rest days are cancelled over Halloween period, every year. New Year and many other times are compulsary also. In other words, if you are a Merseyside cop, you will never get those days off, ever. Happy New Year!! The management regularly (weekly) tell the support group to do compulsary overtime (ok, it is well paid), meaning if you have something booked, the ticket is lost and your partner grows more angry. When the prison officers went on strike recently, the bobbies were told their 10 hour shift had become a 20 hour shift, no notice. People grumbled, but they got on with it because they accept that they do as they are told. When the penny-pinching treasury took away this pay, this insensed rank and file. The average actual amount involved per officer is just over £40 a month, therefore a TOTAL of approx £130. Thats it...... 130 measly quid. The reason all this is blowing up is purely down to the PRINCIPLE. This government will regret many things when they lose the next election, this is another straw on the camels back. How many more to go??
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The Police in Western Australia had a pay dispute during their last EBA and to win (or apply pressure to the govt), they stopped giving out speeding fines and only issued cautions. Cost - $2.5Milliion AUD (about five quid) per week to the govt.
Over in a month. Imagine how much you guys would cost the govt if you did the same.
Over in a month. Imagine how much you guys would cost the govt if you did the same.
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Police Action.
Now listen. My comments were not aimed at the people who have the ability to enter debate on a forum such as this. I thought the flying fraternity reference clarified that. I was refering to that element within the force and i am sure you know a few, who swing the lead. Its these particular ones that cast a shadow on the hard working chaps. How do i know. I know because i was married to one for thirty five years. Would you agree that there are a lot of people on your particular division who aint worth there salt
So you pay 11% out of your salary and get a really good pension. I can't see what the problem is. Wish I had a pension which would take care of me in old age (if I live that long) and only cost me 11%. As for the 'other' deductions, by these, I assume you mean the ones everyone pays?
I believe the government are on a road to nowhere now and hopefully will lose the next election purely to show the they can't take the p*ss.
The police could easily work to rule and one suggestion I have, is mentioned above. No speeding fines, only cautions. How much would the government lose in a short space of time?
DBChopper, your job sounds like fun! Was the corpse smelly? always wondered if the smell lingers
I believe the government are on a road to nowhere now and hopefully will lose the next election purely to show the they can't take the p*ss.
The police could easily work to rule and one suggestion I have, is mentioned above. No speeding fines, only cautions. How much would the government lose in a short space of time?
DBChopper, your job sounds like fun! Was the corpse smelly? always wondered if the smell lingers
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Quote : "The police could easily work to rule and one suggestion I have, is mentioned above. No speeding fines, only cautions"
That could exactly be the difference between "Industrial Action" and "Public Service Action". Would certainly not make you unpopular with some of your "customers".
d3, just a private citizen from a different country
That could exactly be the difference between "Industrial Action" and "Public Service Action". Would certainly not make you unpopular with some of your "customers".
d3, just a private citizen from a different country
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I dont actually understand why a Police thread has started on an aviation forum.
Firstly Pilots have nothing to grumble about as far as pay is concerned. All pilots are extremely well paid, and have the luxury of being able to retire at
60. Surely they can afford a decent pension, and would have planned that pension from an early age as they are all very intelligent people arent they?
The arguements on Police pay have been well aired by the media. Most agree the Police have been crapped on by the Home Secretary. However striking is not an issue. The pay could be sorted out very quickly just as soon as 1, all Firearms officers hand in their firearms authorisations ( just like they threatened to do a couple of years ago in the Met) 2, All Police drivers hand in their driving authorities stating that Pursuits are now so dangerous that they no longer feel capable of conducting them , or passing through red lights on the way to 999 jobs, 3, All officers withdraw their telephone numbers and go "ex dir" so they cannot be contacted other than by a personal visit. The list is endless...so striking isnt really needed...however the right to strike is, because next years pay battle is only 9 months away
Firstly Pilots have nothing to grumble about as far as pay is concerned. All pilots are extremely well paid, and have the luxury of being able to retire at
60. Surely they can afford a decent pension, and would have planned that pension from an early age as they are all very intelligent people arent they?
The arguements on Police pay have been well aired by the media. Most agree the Police have been crapped on by the Home Secretary. However striking is not an issue. The pay could be sorted out very quickly just as soon as 1, all Firearms officers hand in their firearms authorisations ( just like they threatened to do a couple of years ago in the Met) 2, All Police drivers hand in their driving authorities stating that Pursuits are now so dangerous that they no longer feel capable of conducting them , or passing through red lights on the way to 999 jobs, 3, All officers withdraw their telephone numbers and go "ex dir" so they cannot be contacted other than by a personal visit. The list is endless...so striking isnt really needed...however the right to strike is, because next years pay battle is only 9 months away
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Use Section 44 powers ad nauseam on every MP for the next six months - Stop & Search them at every opportunity, Stop them at 'random' in their cars and breathalyse them every time they get anywhere near a car, setup mobile speed cameras at the end of every MPs road - Make life a misery for them. It probably won't get you anywhere but it will sure make you feel better
I wonder if UNISON will allow the same shoddy tactic on police support staff?
I wonder if UNISON will allow the same shoddy tactic on police support staff?
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huntnhound
Rotorheads forum and the question, "Any of the Police Units out there affected yet or perhaps going to be..??"
Isn't this primarily an observer, sorry, passenger thing.
I don't hear pilots grumbling about this police pay issue..yet, besides, aren't pilots pay and the current dispute different issues?
Work to rule and I reckon there will be a few people waiting in the wings to take your place!
Bonus payments, overtime, free public transport etc make some bobbies happy boys and girls...don't they? Pilots don't get those perks!
I dont actually understand why a Police thread has started on an aviation forum.
Rotorheads forum and the question, "Any of the Police Units out there affected yet or perhaps going to be..??"
Pilots have nothing to grumble about as far as pay is concerned.
I don't hear pilots grumbling about this police pay issue..yet, besides, aren't pilots pay and the current dispute different issues?
Work to rule and I reckon there will be a few people waiting in the wings to take your place!
Bonus payments, overtime, free public transport etc make some bobbies happy boys and girls...don't they? Pilots don't get those perks!
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HH
"Firstly Pilots have nothing to grumble about as far as pay is concerned. All pilots are extremely well paid, and have the luxury of being able to retire at
60."
I take issue with your statement. Our pilots, with 5 years seniority, have recently been offered a measly pay rise which is less than the the starting salary of some other police asu's.
On one hand the force wastes thousands of pounds every day but can't look after their staff. it isn't just the warranted police officers who are being taken advantage of.
"Firstly Pilots have nothing to grumble about as far as pay is concerned. All pilots are extremely well paid, and have the luxury of being able to retire at
60."
I take issue with your statement. Our pilots, with 5 years seniority, have recently been offered a measly pay rise which is less than the the starting salary of some other police asu's.
On one hand the force wastes thousands of pounds every day but can't look after their staff. it isn't just the warranted police officers who are being taken advantage of.
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"Firstly Pilots have nothing to grumble about as far as pay is concerned. All pilots are extremely well paid........"
No, they're not!
Phil
No, they're not!
Phil
There are no limits
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With 25 years seniority I am not well paid but I am rich.
If you want to be well paid, don't work in the public sector or for someone else.
If you want to be well paid, don't work in the public sector or for someone else.
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marco
re "...I take issue with your statement. Our pilots, with 5 years seniority, have recently been offered a measly pay rise which is less than the the starting salary of some other police asu's..."
1. They can go on strike.
2. They can always draw on their millitary pension
3. They can leave and go and work on the rigs.
4. They can leave and work for a better paid ASU
HnH
re "...I take issue with your statement. Our pilots, with 5 years seniority, have recently been offered a measly pay rise which is less than the the starting salary of some other police asu's..."
1. They can go on strike.
2. They can always draw on their millitary pension
3. They can leave and go and work on the rigs.
4. They can leave and work for a better paid ASU
HnH
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huntnhound
That's my problem, never been to bed with an ugly woman.....woken up with a few though!! 
Anyway, I thought it was my reply that was casting the bait.
Just to put a different look at things, Adam Applegarth, the chief executive of Northern Rock has quit today, I wonder what his Golden Handshake will be out of the money we have put into Northern Rock via El Gordo et al.
But I suppose that payment won't be affecting inflation!!
Sid...you`re too easy
Anyway, I thought it was my reply that was casting the bait.
Just to put a different look at things, Adam Applegarth, the chief executive of Northern Rock has quit today, I wonder what his Golden Handshake will be out of the money we have put into Northern Rock via El Gordo et al.
But I suppose that payment won't be affecting inflation!!
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... Backdated ?
.... Just to clear up a couple of points that are regularly being quoted in the media, and even here on 'Prune which are factually incorrect
1) - "Police are angry that the recent pay award is not being backdated to 1st September"
The Police Pay rise was DUE on 1st September. Therefore the phrase "backdated" does not reflect the true situation, where the award made earlier this month has been DELAYED by the Government, who refused to implement it from the due date, effectively reducing the pay award by 3/12 - for September, October and November. ( Except in Scotland where the arbitrators recommendations were implemented in full - obviously the English and Welsh Police Officers are not as worthy
)
2) - The pay award is NOT 2.5%. This is the amount that the arbitrators decided should be paid - from 1st September - but by failing to implement from the due date, the amount is effectively reduced by the 3/12 mentioned above, in other words a 25% reduction on the 2.5% award.
3) - The pay award is NOT 1.9% either - that is the figure that has been conveniently "rounded up" from the actual figure of 1.875% !
I support the Police in their campaign to let the government know how angry they are about the treatment they have received.
To just sweep aside the existing pay negotiations / agreement, and then ignore the results of the arbitration and apply their own interpretation, show that the Government never had any intention of allowing any more than a 2% pay rise, no matter what the abitrators decided - if they had awarded more, then the Government would probably have fudged the figures for staged payments to make sure it was still less than 2%, making a complete mockery of the whole saga.
The Police Officers I have spoken to would have no problem if the formula used for negotiating their pay were changed, provided the changes were FAIR and reflected both the nature of the work they do, and their peculiar personal circumstances - where they cannot strike, have restrictions placed on their private lives, and face ever increasing levels of danger on a daily basis.
Having said all of the above, I would not support the Police going on strike, and believe they would lose Public support if they did so.
On the brighter side I assume that all English and Welsh Police Officers can look forward to their Council Tax bills, and all their other bills for that matter, rising by a percentage no more than the cost of their wage increase, due to the prudent financial handling of the economy by Golden Brown and his party.
1) - "Police are angry that the recent pay award is not being backdated to 1st September"
The Police Pay rise was DUE on 1st September. Therefore the phrase "backdated" does not reflect the true situation, where the award made earlier this month has been DELAYED by the Government, who refused to implement it from the due date, effectively reducing the pay award by 3/12 - for September, October and November. ( Except in Scotland where the arbitrators recommendations were implemented in full - obviously the English and Welsh Police Officers are not as worthy
)2) - The pay award is NOT 2.5%. This is the amount that the arbitrators decided should be paid - from 1st September - but by failing to implement from the due date, the amount is effectively reduced by the 3/12 mentioned above, in other words a 25% reduction on the 2.5% award.
3) - The pay award is NOT 1.9% either - that is the figure that has been conveniently "rounded up" from the actual figure of 1.875% !
I support the Police in their campaign to let the government know how angry they are about the treatment they have received.
To just sweep aside the existing pay negotiations / agreement, and then ignore the results of the arbitration and apply their own interpretation, show that the Government never had any intention of allowing any more than a 2% pay rise, no matter what the abitrators decided - if they had awarded more, then the Government would probably have fudged the figures for staged payments to make sure it was still less than 2%, making a complete mockery of the whole saga.
The Police Officers I have spoken to would have no problem if the formula used for negotiating their pay were changed, provided the changes were FAIR and reflected both the nature of the work they do, and their peculiar personal circumstances - where they cannot strike, have restrictions placed on their private lives, and face ever increasing levels of danger on a daily basis.
Having said all of the above, I would not support the Police going on strike, and believe they would lose Public support if they did so.
On the brighter side I assume that all English and Welsh Police Officers can look forward to their Council Tax bills, and all their other bills for that matter, rising by a percentage no more than the cost of their wage increase, due to the prudent financial handling of the economy by Golden Brown and his party.
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As a cop , part time agreed pax and almost CPL when it comes to pay yes we are well paid ,but if you think about it how many of the pilots for any of the ASU's are paid anything like a PC ? NOt many , if any I would suggest . Bear in mind a top pay scale PC with in excess of ten yrs service draws 32 grand per yr . How many pilots are on that . So as an ASU pilot you may be earning a lot less than other industry heli guys , but remember when your hovering above the aforementioned officers being encircled and routinely assaulted your earning a lot more than they are without any risk to your person (Inherent aviation dangers aside ) but the observers run those risks too .
And just to set the record straight on pensions , if you have over two years service in the police then you are paying 11% if you joined recently you're only paying 9% and have to work 35 years to get the same deal as those paying 11% , I cannot see there being many takers for 35 yrs in this appalling job . And those on mil pensions didnt do 30 yrs to get it
And just to set the record straight on pensions , if you have over two years service in the police then you are paying 11% if you joined recently you're only paying 9% and have to work 35 years to get the same deal as those paying 11% , I cannot see there being many takers for 35 yrs in this appalling job . And those on mil pensions didnt do 30 yrs to get it
