Mike Barnard

A good friend of mine in the UK has a 2 year-old R44 which is already showing signs of corrosion from beneath the paint in the tail area. No chips, always hangared, regularly used and serviced, personal use only etc. Has anyone else experienced a similar problem?

belly tank

Mike,
You beat me to the thread!!.......im so glad youve raised this because we are experiencing the exact same problem....we run a few machines here on the east coast of australia and some being R22 / R44's we have a 18 month old
R44 R1 which the tailboom is riddled with signs of corrosion and at the next 100 inspection we are forced to remove the tailboom due to this problem, for a complete strip down.
We are going to have to do a proper job through our maintenance dept......our R22 is 10 months old since brand new and has signs of the same...we have written to our distributer who informs us that Robinson is none the less interested and states buy another product if your not happy...well we are not happy at the slightest..........imagine you bought a 500,000 dollar motorcar and after 10 months corrosion starts popping through the paintwork..........you would tell them to go to h%ll.
we will not cop the cost of this as ive stated to our distributer......unfortunately Mr Robinson has the monopoly on the range and his product is slipping in quality......his machines 10 years ago were much better..........look out heli expo next year i will get my own back at the robinson party via copious amounts of beer
same as Mike.our aircraft are always hangared, regularily washed and shamied, and only corrosion in the tail area

havick

Only in the tailboom? that's really bizarre.. Are the tailbooms manufactured at a different plant to the rest of the airframe?

206Fan

Bellytank, do yous use that corosionX i think its called provided by robinson? Im going to austrailia in april to work for a year and do my CPL hopefully with PHS helicopters!

belly tank

Are you telling me they are addmiting to the problem........surely not.......
Maybe robinson should provide a product called Proper preparation X.....wonder if that comes in a spray can.....sorry can't help but be synical

HAVICK.........To answer your question..NO same plant......just the paint is thinner

206Fan

Wel its been mentioned to me breifly before and its mentioned on this forum also http://flyinginireland.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2724

turboshaft

It looks like R44 deliveries are significantly down on last year. Is this a further sign of quality issues at Torrence, or just a change in demand?

BHenderson

We left our Raven outside in the rain one day. When it came to put it away a substantial amount of water drained from the tail when it was lowered. Could this be part of the problem?

InducedDrag

It is an option to have the Clipper corrosion protection on any 44. It can be ordered even if you aren't getting floats. It is recommended for ships based in coastal areas. All the alum panels are zinc chromated before assembly. It adds a small amount of weight but provides a lot of protection.

Before you blame Robinson, maybe some owners should consider equipping the ship for the environment in which it will be operated. Some may fire back and say it should be standard.... Well not all owners want the weight or have a need for it. As far inland as I am.....It would be a waste of money and just dead weight.

ericferret

If you have a substantial outflow of water on lowering the tail that suggests there is someting amiss with the aircraft drains. Either something is blocked or the design is wrong.

I have seen corrosion problems with R22 in the past. We had a one year old aircraft where the transmission support frame was a write off due to corrosion. Every inch of the frame was affected. It looked like something out of a car scrap yard.

Graviman

I get very annoyed about corrosion. An organisation serious about it's reputation would dedicate resource to investigate and test the many different options that exist in the market to avoid corrosion. There is just no excuse in 2007.

Corrosion is caused by a galvanic cell between the metal and oxygen, and is catalysed by small pH differences in each water droplet contacting the metal. Factory applied high temperature wax is makes an effective barrier to stop water contacting the metal. These guys might be a good place to start investigating solutions:
http://www.waxoyl.com/en/produkte/index.htm

After market WaxOyl (available from Halfords in UK), should be applied with extremely careful consideration. It is an oil based product, so can cause deterioration in rubber hoses, bushes, belts etc. Also it will lubricate so should not be used in between bolted joints (since clamping friction will be reduced). It will also be flung off from rotating components, and melts in a warm environment. In the right conditions it may support combustion.

There are cold processes for electrolytic zinc coat. If i was trying to find a solution i would search the yellow pages, then discuss options with the OEM. Water in the UK is a fact of life, and the design just should cater for it.
Yellow page search for UK Anodisers

Hope this helps - the OEM should have done all this...

slowrotor

My thoughts as a retired aircraft paint shop owner are this:

The fancy modern polyurethane paints can trap moisture and corrosive salts between the paint and the skin. Urethane is more waterproof than the old enamels. Water will get in, but the moisture cannot get out.
The only fix is a layer of primer. Alodine without primer might work but alodine with epoxy primer is best to protect the aluminum from the topcoat.

LIMIT NOT TARGET

I think Frank should leave California, where he is being restricted with pollution requirements for that state. Either that or slow production down to increase quality. Another option would be to release the helicopters in a very thin primer, to which it can be painted properly to the owners requirements at his or hers country, or state if it staying in the USA.
I have seen this corrosion problem on numerous Robinsons and it is manufacturing problem that needs to be rectified.

Graviman

What annoys me is that there are solutions. Corrosion is every bit as important as fatigue on component durability. I understand the need to keep production volumes up, but there should be a corrosion task force set up to cure this problem. It should consist of a very small handful of design, test and manufacturing engineers.

One machine would need to be sacrificed for continuous salt spray testing - it is the best way to get accelerated corrosion results. It needs to be driven from within the organisation, so that the processes fit in with production techniques, and do not affect the performance of an otherwise good bit of design.



PS: Interesting comment about emissions, LNT. Is the light aviation industry about to be bitten by the emissions bug? That Lycoming 0-320-B2C engine could probably have valves modified to run on unleaded, but the combustion chamber design is getting dated now...

thekite

I do believe that I used to work for your distributor, and well believe your account of his reaction (Hi Lindsay)

However, Frank is a totally different matter and will go for a fix, if I know him.
Yes, seems there is a problem there, but neither the problem nor the fix are exactly rocket science.

But he can hardly do recalls, so resign yourselves to doing a very low-tech fix yourselves to this mundane matter.

thekite

ericferret

Paint problems with american manufactured aircraft are nothing new. When easyjet took delivery of its 737-700's virtually every aircraft was subject to a warranty respray.

Aircraft arrived on their delivery flight with paint missing and gradually they developed cases of measles as the rivet heads shed their paint.

Whether this was due to poor surface prep or the type of primer they are forced to use I do not know.

scooter boy

My 4 year old clipper II lives inside a converted cowshed hangar in a very damp humid (humidity up to 100% most days occas dropping to about 65% in the height of summer) corner of the UK (Cornwall).
I have a (2nd hand) industrial dehumidifier (£250) on in the winter 24/7 and it extracts 3-5 gallons of water every 24hrs between Nov and Feb.
I went for the clipper partly because of the extra corrosion-proofing and it seems to be holding up well.
The only parts showing corrosion are the extra night kit brackets that the CAA require for night flying in the UK (Non-Robinson parts) and the very tip of the candy-cane at the tail.
I think the dehumidifier helps and would strongly recommend it for sucking the dampness right out of your hangar and protecting your machine.

SB

Gaseous

My Enstrom lives outside with a cover on. The cover is breathable but it is often wet with condensation inside. Corrosion on the tailcone used to be a problem and it has had to have the paint touched up.
A few years ago I started to use Lear ACF50 inside the tailcone (and everywhere else) . It is 'misted' using a fine spraygun so it penetrates everywhere. It works by neutralising the corrosion cell. It has solved the problem.
It is expensive at around £100 for 4 litres but this will last for ages. Fantastic stuff. Doesn't seem to harm anything and protects everything.
Just a very satisfied customer.
Check with your engineer before applying to your aircraft.
PS I do mine 4 times a year. It takes about 50cc and 10 minutes to do the whole aircraft. Wear a mask. Its bloody awful if you breathe the spray.

PPS The aircraft is 32 years old and was last painted in 1988.

rotorvision98

Hi Our R22 is showing the same signs of corrosion it is due to a reaction with incorrect self etch primer proir to painting (machine less than 3 years old). I also know of a less than 2 year old R44 with the same problem. The Distributor tried to say it was down to the area in which its used which is a load of bollock! Does your Bentley Or Aston have to have a different coat of primer for use in damp conditions? I think not likewise If your Bentley or Aston developed this type of corrosion you would play balls with the dealer Not the manufacturer additionally all the dealer would do is put in a warranty claim. I think we are being shafted here? There is something in the sale of goods act which says " Fit for the propper purpose for which it was intended" More people should shout a lot louder about this afterall its these people that are making the dealers (Worldwide) and the manufacturer a lot of money by spending their $$ with them. Isnt the customer right? well some of the time anyway

airbourne1

Was just wondering how many other people out there are finding their aircraft riddled with corrosion? My machine has not got signs of corrosion on every tailcone joint plus the stabs and a couple of places on the fuel tanks it has always been hangared etc and nearly 18 months old.
I suppose weve got to fight for warrany now?

would appreciate your views.