Bristow & other Oz offshore pay deals
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Well, my sources say that the deal of 15% as of May then 5% Jan 09, 5% Jul 09 were accepted by CHC management.
Additionally, 2 extra weeks of leave (6 total per year) has been sought & management is going to Canada for approval. Interesting indeed.
Combine this with a captial city domicile policy & it makes for a good industry standard. Glad to see the boys are having a win in negotiations.
Has got to be good for pilot's on the whole one would think.
Additionally, 2 extra weeks of leave (6 total per year) has been sought & management is going to Canada for approval. Interesting indeed.
Combine this with a captial city domicile policy & it makes for a good industry standard. Glad to see the boys are having a win in negotiations.
Has got to be good for pilot's on the whole one would think.
Thread Starter
Chc Deal
Oz Whirly,
Just confirm: in total that's 25% from May 08 to Jul 09 (just over a year)! If that's true lets see what the other companies have to offer. There are only a certain amount of multi-engine IFR drivers around. They will naturally be drawn to the highest bidder.
GG
Just confirm: in total that's 25% from May 08 to Jul 09 (just over a year)! If that's true lets see what the other companies have to offer. There are only a certain amount of multi-engine IFR drivers around. They will naturally be drawn to the highest bidder.
GG
Last edited by GreenerGrass; 15th Jan 2008 at 18:09.
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Great News for the industry
Wow that is excellent news for the industry in general. I guess folks will gravitate towards employers of choice that combine sustainable work routines with adequate leave cycles and industry standard coin.......
As Bob Dylan wrote....."The times they are a changing!"
Max
As Bob Dylan wrote....."The times they are a changing!"
Max
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Chc Eba
Hi guys,
AWBD,
You are quite correct in your assertions re the pay deal on offer. The question is, will their PC and pilots go for it?
All,
It's become abundantly clear that CHC is making a move to be the preferred off-shore employer in Oz. Have they got a massive expansion plan on? Given their pay is already 6 - 11% better than it's nearest rival, the recent domicile re-think and the pay offer on the table, they'll be streets ahead.
For example - a mid-level CAPT with the competition who lives on the east coast, it'll be an increase of over $36,000 before tax (ah... that's $1800 / month for the mathematically challenged). That kind of difference kills off any kind of loyalty one might have.
My sources from CHC tell me that a CAPT from BHA is already making serious enquiries but no details obviously. I expect there will be more to follow.
P68
AWBD,
You are quite correct in your assertions re the pay deal on offer. The question is, will their PC and pilots go for it?
All,
It's become abundantly clear that CHC is making a move to be the preferred off-shore employer in Oz. Have they got a massive expansion plan on? Given their pay is already 6 - 11% better than it's nearest rival, the recent domicile re-think and the pay offer on the table, they'll be streets ahead.
For example - a mid-level CAPT with the competition who lives on the east coast, it'll be an increase of over $36,000 before tax (ah... that's $1800 / month for the mathematically challenged). That kind of difference kills off any kind of loyalty one might have.
My sources from CHC tell me that a CAPT from BHA is already making serious enquiries but no details obviously. I expect there will be more to follow.
P68
it'll be an increase of over $36,000 before tax (ah... that's $1800 / month for the mathematically challenged)
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Papa, I think you maybe behind the times.
I think you will find the following is factual:
Bristow’s pay the least with an attitude to boot!, but with a more than reasonable superannuation system.
CHC pays straight down the line, with both a reasonable superannuation system and Salary Protection Insurance
Jayrow have lead the race in the last three years, and if the rumors are true about their small touring force living anywhere they want and the other rumor about paid family holidays, they should stay in that position.
The bottom line boys, the big three will all be within a few % of each other when the final calculations are compared.
Bristow’s pay the least with an attitude to boot!, but with a more than reasonable superannuation system.
CHC pays straight down the line, with both a reasonable superannuation system and Salary Protection Insurance
Jayrow have lead the race in the last three years, and if the rumors are true about their small touring force living anywhere they want and the other rumor about paid family holidays, they should stay in that position.
The bottom line boys, the big three will all be within a few % of each other when the final calculations are compared.
Last edited by High Nr; 16th Jan 2008 at 08:44. Reason: Edited for double wording and poor spelling....sorry.
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Tax correction
212 Man,
Apologies old chap - I should have explained it a bit better. It was indeed meant to be $1800 / month after tax. For most, the bottom line is what really matters and given the tax brackets we're talking about, 40% of any additional salary will be taken by the ATO. It's possibly one of the reasons the salaries here need to be increased so substantially - tax.
News to hand - my sources tell me that CHC have apparently approved the extra 2 weeks of leave for the CHC off-shore guys in Oz. I don't have anything concrete at this stage in the way of proof but these are interesting times indeed...
High NR,
Your point is taken but the latest initiatives from CHC have actually widened the gap to a point where the disparity has become tangible. Just my thoughts.
P68
Apologies old chap - I should have explained it a bit better. It was indeed meant to be $1800 / month after tax. For most, the bottom line is what really matters and given the tax brackets we're talking about, 40% of any additional salary will be taken by the ATO. It's possibly one of the reasons the salaries here need to be increased so substantially - tax.
News to hand - my sources tell me that CHC have apparently approved the extra 2 weeks of leave for the CHC off-shore guys in Oz. I don't have anything concrete at this stage in the way of proof but these are interesting times indeed...
High NR,
Your point is taken but the latest initiatives from CHC have actually widened the gap to a point where the disparity has become tangible. Just my thoughts.
P68
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I note that there is a lot of talk about percentages on this thread but what do the proposed new CHC wages for P1 & P2 add up to in hard currency, on-shore and off-shore. How far behind are the rest?
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With the increase in pays for those who don't fly 'offshore' I think there are more pilots asking themselves 'why live in a +*&^%hole half my life when one can get a good/well rewarded job closer to home'. It's getting to the point where unless the renumeration increases guys will 'move on' where as a few years ago they probably thought this was a job 'for life'
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John,
I could not agree with you more and am currently asking myself the same question. If I could be home with my family every night on slightly less money it really is a no-brainer.
I could not agree with you more and am currently asking myself the same question. If I could be home with my family every night on slightly less money it really is a no-brainer.
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Touring vs flying closer to home
movin' up,
Mate, it's all about the shirts - how many times do we need to go through this??? Sure AWBD wants to talk about pay and conditions etc (and he's perfectly entitled to his view of course) but that's just his view! It's clear to everyone else that attire is key here and CHC and the rest wear nice flying suits. It's a no brainer. AWBD - not a peep out of you thanks with your extremist and contrary views!
John Galt & 206L Driver,
Your views are noted but I don't think they're necessarily correct. Whilst there may be a couple of jobs that involve staying at home on pay similar to that of tourers, they are v few and far between. Most of the good jobs still pay well under $100,000 or thereabouts whilst a tourer will be paid approx $15,000 to $30,000+ more.
Some points to note when comparing the two types of employment:
1. If we take that difference to be approx $1,125 (average take home pay after tax at 40%), then it can (and does) make a difference to a lot of helo guys.
2. Many tourers don't pay for their food whilst on tour.
3. Most off-shore positions (if not all) have 4 weeks of leave (CHC has reportedly moved to 6 weeks). This means you should only be away for 5 months of the year.
4. Field leave is in 2 to 3 week blocks which allows tourers a lot of freedom to do other things in their spare time e.g. study, take o/s holidays, seek additional work etc.
5. The ability and potential for salaries to increase in the off-shore sector I believe are far greater than for that in EMS in the short to medium term. An ability to pay is one issue but a major factor I suspect is the inundation of ex-military types working in EMS using their pensions to top up what are otherwise lower salaries. When those eligible for pensions from the military dry up, then EMS salaries might improve somewhat, esp if they want to attract ex-mil types.
6. The off-shore sector has a "progression system" that brings in young and relatively inexperienced pilots and grooms them for command positions. Which EMS operator in Oz employs 500-1000 hr guys with no night or IFR experience, let alone multi-engine turbine time? For many entering the "big time", the off-shore operators provide the best intial and perhaps long term prospects.
Ultimately, it is an individual choice which depends v much on your circumstances and priorities. However, I don't think there is a case that there are plenty of jobs out there that pay like the off-shore sector but involve staying at home. If there were, we'd all be after them.
Just my thoughts...
P68
Mate, it's all about the shirts - how many times do we need to go through this??? Sure AWBD wants to talk about pay and conditions etc (and he's perfectly entitled to his view of course) but that's just his view! It's clear to everyone else that attire is key here and CHC and the rest wear nice flying suits. It's a no brainer. AWBD - not a peep out of you thanks with your extremist and contrary views!
John Galt & 206L Driver,
Your views are noted but I don't think they're necessarily correct. Whilst there may be a couple of jobs that involve staying at home on pay similar to that of tourers, they are v few and far between. Most of the good jobs still pay well under $100,000 or thereabouts whilst a tourer will be paid approx $15,000 to $30,000+ more.
Some points to note when comparing the two types of employment:
1. If we take that difference to be approx $1,125 (average take home pay after tax at 40%), then it can (and does) make a difference to a lot of helo guys.
2. Many tourers don't pay for their food whilst on tour.
3. Most off-shore positions (if not all) have 4 weeks of leave (CHC has reportedly moved to 6 weeks). This means you should only be away for 5 months of the year.
4. Field leave is in 2 to 3 week blocks which allows tourers a lot of freedom to do other things in their spare time e.g. study, take o/s holidays, seek additional work etc.
5. The ability and potential for salaries to increase in the off-shore sector I believe are far greater than for that in EMS in the short to medium term. An ability to pay is one issue but a major factor I suspect is the inundation of ex-military types working in EMS using their pensions to top up what are otherwise lower salaries. When those eligible for pensions from the military dry up, then EMS salaries might improve somewhat, esp if they want to attract ex-mil types.
6. The off-shore sector has a "progression system" that brings in young and relatively inexperienced pilots and grooms them for command positions. Which EMS operator in Oz employs 500-1000 hr guys with no night or IFR experience, let alone multi-engine turbine time? For many entering the "big time", the off-shore operators provide the best intial and perhaps long term prospects.
Ultimately, it is an individual choice which depends v much on your circumstances and priorities. However, I don't think there is a case that there are plenty of jobs out there that pay like the off-shore sector but involve staying at home. If there were, we'd all be after them.
Just my thoughts...
P68
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Papa 68,
You raise some good points, but I dont understand the , "only 5 months away " bit. Normally tourers are not on 6on 6 off ,or 4 on 4 off, as such. Its 42/42 days or 28/28 days, on site and any travel incurred to and from work is taken in your leave time. This equates to being away from home a little over 6 months a year.
Is it true that in Australia a company will give you leave in addition to this ??!!
Cheers.
You raise some good points, but I dont understand the , "only 5 months away " bit. Normally tourers are not on 6on 6 off ,or 4 on 4 off, as such. Its 42/42 days or 28/28 days, on site and any travel incurred to and from work is taken in your leave time. This equates to being away from home a little over 6 months a year.
Is it true that in Australia a company will give you leave in addition to this ??!!
Cheers.
Thread Starter
LEAVE
Tribal,
Yes to your question. In Australia if you tour you also receive an extra 4 weeks annual leave(soon to be 6 for CHC). The field leave associated with each tour is only to compensate you for time away from home. Fixed base guys get to be home every night/day. All pilots should be entitled to industry standard annual leave. If fixed base pilots receive 6 weeks per year then tourers should receive the same.
And you're right it's not really equal time away or home anyway as the actual roster is 15 on/ 13 off.
GG
Yes to your question. In Australia if you tour you also receive an extra 4 weeks annual leave(soon to be 6 for CHC). The field leave associated with each tour is only to compensate you for time away from home. Fixed base guys get to be home every night/day. All pilots should be entitled to industry standard annual leave. If fixed base pilots receive 6 weeks per year then tourers should receive the same.
And you're right it's not really equal time away or home anyway as the actual roster is 15 on/ 13 off.
GG
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Touring cycles in Oz
To explain the whole touring cyle thing in Oz.
tribal - the touring cycles you speak of really relate to intenational touring cycles as I know it. Most have gone to 'equal' time in either 4, 6 or 8 week blocks of on / off time. I say 'equal' as travel is conducted in your own time. I did actually mention the extra 4 to 6 weeks of annual leave in my post so I'm not sure how you couldn't deduce that equates to approx 5 months at work?!??
However, to explain more fully, GG is quite correct in saying that in Oz you get additional leave. The reasons for this, I wasn't fully aware of to be honest but it makes sense I guess. And GG is quite correct in saying that in Oz it is strictly a 15 on / 13 off touring cycle. One could do the maths to figure out the exact time spent at home but I for one can't be bothered. For the train spotters out there, you would do 12 touring cycles a year if you take your 4 weeks of leave, less (obviously) if you get 6 weeks off.
High Nr - close but no cigar old chap. Neither BHA or CHC Oz have ever had 6 weeks of additoinal leave, just the 4. CHC have some wierd wording in their EBA that suggests that they have had 6 weeks but the fine print says it includes 2 weeks of field leave. The net result was 4 weeks. This I believe has recently been changed to 6 weeks of actual annual leave.
Gets complicated doesn't it?
P68
tribal - the touring cycles you speak of really relate to intenational touring cycles as I know it. Most have gone to 'equal' time in either 4, 6 or 8 week blocks of on / off time. I say 'equal' as travel is conducted in your own time. I did actually mention the extra 4 to 6 weeks of annual leave in my post so I'm not sure how you couldn't deduce that equates to approx 5 months at work?!??
However, to explain more fully, GG is quite correct in saying that in Oz you get additional leave. The reasons for this, I wasn't fully aware of to be honest but it makes sense I guess. And GG is quite correct in saying that in Oz it is strictly a 15 on / 13 off touring cycle. One could do the maths to figure out the exact time spent at home but I for one can't be bothered. For the train spotters out there, you would do 12 touring cycles a year if you take your 4 weeks of leave, less (obviously) if you get 6 weeks off.
High Nr - close but no cigar old chap. Neither BHA or CHC Oz have ever had 6 weeks of additoinal leave, just the 4. CHC have some wierd wording in their EBA that suggests that they have had 6 weeks but the fine print says it includes 2 weeks of field leave. The net result was 4 weeks. This I believe has recently been changed to 6 weeks of actual annual leave.
Gets complicated doesn't it?
P68
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Papa 68,
How I came to the 5 month figure, is from your earlier quote as such:
3. Most off-shore positions (if not all) have 4 weeks of leave (CHC has reportedly moved to 6 weeks). This means you should only be away for 5 months of the year.
Cheers Tribal
How I came to the 5 month figure, is from your earlier quote as such:
3. Most off-shore positions (if not all) have 4 weeks of leave (CHC has reportedly moved to 6 weeks). This means you should only be away for 5 months of the year.
Cheers Tribal