Bristow & other Oz offshore pay deals
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Bristow & other Oz offshore pay deals
I'm in the offshore game in Oz but not with Bristow.
I've been informed by a couple of reliable sources that if management don't get their act together by the end of the year quite a few drivers will leave.
These aren't idle threats from disgruntled pilots but genuine plans to leave.
With all three offshore companies in OZ short of pilots how will Bristow manage to replace those that WILL leave, or will management finally come to the table?!
Don't they realise that there IS a shortage of multi-engine IFR helicopter pilots?!
I've been informed by a couple of reliable sources that if management don't get their act together by the end of the year quite a few drivers will leave.
These aren't idle threats from disgruntled pilots but genuine plans to leave.
With all three offshore companies in OZ short of pilots how will Bristow manage to replace those that WILL leave, or will management finally come to the table?!
Don't they realise that there IS a shortage of multi-engine IFR helicopter pilots?!
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Well, GG that’s a pretty emotive post, I have to say. Are you sure you are not in some way affected by this?
As I currently work for this Company, I can provide somewhat of an insight into what is currently occurring & perhaps offer my opinion on a few matters.................
The process has been long and not without hiccups, but a few things I must first point out……
I think overall, the vast majority of guys are happy to work for this Company (always exceptions). We have a pretty happy workforce on the whole (my opinion only).
Granted, most feel we are lagging the competition somewhat in the overall package, but I think most guys are committed to seeing the bargaining process through.
You must also understand that there is a process and we have not reached the end of it. Additionally (not supporting the management position, merely playing Devils advocate), they have a job to do in saying “NO” to what is being asked. When the process finally goes to vote (current EBA expires Feb 08) and, for example, a suitable package was not agreed upon, you may be correct in your assumption. Potentially & realistically, a percentage of pilots will no doubt leave. We have had 2 leave in the last 2 weeks and I do know that there others waiting like coiled springs for the Feb date. But, I have to say, I have faith in the body being united at present & I hope that it would not get to the point of good guys leaving. This however, is in the hands of the god’s. Let’s face it, the market has never been better for drivers.
As far as your comment “Don't they realise that there IS a shortage of multi-engine IFR helicopter pilots”. I am sure that they understand this, but to date, we have had a minimal number of pilots leave, therefore, they seem to be acting on the premise that “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” (ie. Why pay more if we don’t have to). I really hope that it does not get to a point that guys I respect and enjoy working with are forced to go elsewhere. We currently have a large number of middle aged, experienced pilots & I get the impression that for some, leaving for a better deal in Oz or overseas is not an issue. Only time will tell. We have after all heard that to get a secondment these days, resigning is the only avenue due to OZ shortages.
I guess the overall comment to your post would be, we know the jobs are out there, there may be guys considering it, but I feel we are united in applying the pressures that would see a better deal here rather than jumping the fence prematurely. But hey, that’s me & I could be way off the mark……
As I currently work for this Company, I can provide somewhat of an insight into what is currently occurring & perhaps offer my opinion on a few matters.................
The process has been long and not without hiccups, but a few things I must first point out……
I think overall, the vast majority of guys are happy to work for this Company (always exceptions). We have a pretty happy workforce on the whole (my opinion only).
Granted, most feel we are lagging the competition somewhat in the overall package, but I think most guys are committed to seeing the bargaining process through.
You must also understand that there is a process and we have not reached the end of it. Additionally (not supporting the management position, merely playing Devils advocate), they have a job to do in saying “NO” to what is being asked. When the process finally goes to vote (current EBA expires Feb 08) and, for example, a suitable package was not agreed upon, you may be correct in your assumption. Potentially & realistically, a percentage of pilots will no doubt leave. We have had 2 leave in the last 2 weeks and I do know that there others waiting like coiled springs for the Feb date. But, I have to say, I have faith in the body being united at present & I hope that it would not get to the point of good guys leaving. This however, is in the hands of the god’s. Let’s face it, the market has never been better for drivers.
As far as your comment “Don't they realise that there IS a shortage of multi-engine IFR helicopter pilots”. I am sure that they understand this, but to date, we have had a minimal number of pilots leave, therefore, they seem to be acting on the premise that “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” (ie. Why pay more if we don’t have to). I really hope that it does not get to a point that guys I respect and enjoy working with are forced to go elsewhere. We currently have a large number of middle aged, experienced pilots & I get the impression that for some, leaving for a better deal in Oz or overseas is not an issue. Only time will tell. We have after all heard that to get a secondment these days, resigning is the only avenue due to OZ shortages.
I guess the overall comment to your post would be, we know the jobs are out there, there may be guys considering it, but I feel we are united in applying the pressures that would see a better deal here rather than jumping the fence prematurely. But hey, that’s me & I could be way off the mark……
Last edited by AusWhirlyBusDriver; 12th Oct 2007 at 14:47.
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These blokes get paid too much for doing nothing anyway. Let em go!! Maybe then, we can get a go at it.
Greengrass, what do I need to get a job with you blokes? (CHC or Jayrow?)
Greengrass, what do I need to get a job with you blokes? (CHC or Jayrow?)
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Lack of logic from FTE
kwikenz,
Well said mate
. Sometimes I just don't get my fellow aviators...
FTE,
Your post suggests a complete lack of logic / knowledge on your part on a number of levels.
Firstly, I can only assume from what you've said that you haven't cracked it as far as making it into one of the better offshore operations and that you are indeed keen to do so.
However...
You already "know" that offshore chaps do nothing anyway. Does this mean you aspire to do nothing?
You dispute the fact that they should be paid better as they are already too well paid. Does that mean that if and when you do "get a go" you'll be happy to forgo any improvement in your ongoing conditions?
Despite not actually having made it to one of the more established offshore operators, you have already narrowed down your search to CHC and Jayrow (having struck Bristow's off your list) - a little presumtious don't you think?
Clearly you have no idea of the bigger picture here. It doesn't matter one iota who you work for, if salaries are on the up with ANY of the bigger operators, it has a flow on effect within the helicopter industry in Oz.
Those who are lucky enough to enjoy the conditions on offer from the major players owe a great debt of gratitude to those who have fought for those conditions. Currently, the environment for a significant improvement in those conditions is well established.
Would you prefer the conditions within the industry remain stagnant? If so, why not just stay where you are? Why would you want to work for CHC or Jayrow's? I believe their conditions are very attractive and as such probably wouldn't appeal to someone like yourself.
Anyway... based on all of this, I'm sure GG is just dying to get back to you in order to recommend you to management. Then again, maybe not... I hope during your interview you make a better first impression than in your post.
Despite all the above, good luck.
papa68
Well said mate
. Sometimes I just don't get my fellow aviators...FTE,
Your post suggests a complete lack of logic / knowledge on your part on a number of levels.
Firstly, I can only assume from what you've said that you haven't cracked it as far as making it into one of the better offshore operations and that you are indeed keen to do so.
However...
You already "know" that offshore chaps do nothing anyway. Does this mean you aspire to do nothing?
You dispute the fact that they should be paid better as they are already too well paid. Does that mean that if and when you do "get a go" you'll be happy to forgo any improvement in your ongoing conditions?
Despite not actually having made it to one of the more established offshore operators, you have already narrowed down your search to CHC and Jayrow (having struck Bristow's off your list) - a little presumtious don't you think?
Clearly you have no idea of the bigger picture here. It doesn't matter one iota who you work for, if salaries are on the up with ANY of the bigger operators, it has a flow on effect within the helicopter industry in Oz.
Those who are lucky enough to enjoy the conditions on offer from the major players owe a great debt of gratitude to those who have fought for those conditions.
Currently, the environment for a significant improvement in those conditions is well established. Would you prefer the conditions within the industry remain stagnant? If so, why not just stay where you are? Why would you want to work for CHC or Jayrow's? I believe their conditions are very attractive and as such probably wouldn't appeal to someone like yourself.
Anyway... based on all of this, I'm sure GG is just dying to get back to you in order to recommend you to management. Then again, maybe not... I hope during your interview you make a better first impression than in your post.
Despite all the above, good luck.
papa68
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Well Papa, you sound like Bristow Management to me.
Don't get me wrong, I bet it's all sweet were you are, but why would I move to Perth in the current climate. I may have an attitude, but I'm not an idiot!
As far as guys jumping ship, I'm sure they would be well qualified, but are they too Bristowized after years with one Company? I'm sure their experience would be welcomed somewhere else, but from what I've heard, there is a lot of "we always do it this way, casue we've always done it this way, so it must be right!"
Just looking to stir things up bit. Look forward to the next post...........
Don't get me wrong, I bet it's all sweet were you are, but why would I move to Perth in the current climate. I may have an attitude, but I'm not an idiot!
As far as guys jumping ship, I'm sure they would be well qualified, but are they too Bristowized after years with one Company? I'm sure their experience would be welcomed somewhere else, but from what I've heard, there is a lot of "we always do it this way, casue we've always done it this way, so it must be right!"
Just looking to stir things up bit. Look forward to the next post...........
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FTE IS an idiot.
FTE,
Yes, you ARE an idiot! The biggest idiot I've come across in Rotorhead. Not only are you an idiot, you are a selfish idiot.
Moderators, please edit as you see fit.
Monk
Yes, you ARE an idiot! The biggest idiot I've come across in Rotorhead. Not only are you an idiot, you are a selfish idiot.
Moderators, please edit as you see fit.
Monk
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No - please leave the posts as they are.
The Flapping to Equity's idiocy will be preseved until he chooses to crawl back and delete them himself.
Never ceased to be amazed that the most controversial statements come from people with one or two posts.
The Flapping to Equity's idiocy will be preseved until he chooses to crawl back and delete them himself.
Never ceased to be amazed that the most controversial statements come from people with one or two posts.
Thread Starter
FTE,
You do have no idea.
As to your "too Bristowised" comment I'll assure you all three offshore operators are pretty much the same. They have to be, otherwise they would not be successful in winning contracts from the resource companies who all like it pretty much standardised. So I don't believe any of the offshore companies would be your cup of tea.
I totally agree with P68. If there was not an financially attractive goal at the end of the hard slog through the industry then I'm sure many would not have even considered aviation. However this goal is no longer as attractive when compared with other industries, particularly the ones we support. The lowest paid people on our aircraft are the two up front.
If the Guys/Gals at Bristow can work with management to improve their own conditions then it will have a positive flow on for all in the industry not just the other two offshore companies.
Remember oil is no longer $10-15 a barrel, it's around $80 a barrel, so the helicopter companies can't plead financial hardship, or tell us they can't afford payrises. The costs just get passed onto the resource companies. Also know that CHC/Bristow/Jayrow have never found it so difficult to attract qualified pilots.
AusWhirly I'll be watching you guys with keen interest.
GG
You do have no idea.
As to your "too Bristowised" comment I'll assure you all three offshore operators are pretty much the same. They have to be, otherwise they would not be successful in winning contracts from the resource companies who all like it pretty much standardised. So I don't believe any of the offshore companies would be your cup of tea.
I totally agree with P68. If there was not an financially attractive goal at the end of the hard slog through the industry then I'm sure many would not have even considered aviation. However this goal is no longer as attractive when compared with other industries, particularly the ones we support. The lowest paid people on our aircraft are the two up front.
If the Guys/Gals at Bristow can work with management to improve their own conditions then it will have a positive flow on for all in the industry not just the other two offshore companies.
Remember oil is no longer $10-15 a barrel, it's around $80 a barrel, so the helicopter companies can't plead financial hardship, or tell us they can't afford payrises. The costs just get passed onto the resource companies. Also know that CHC/Bristow/Jayrow have never found it so difficult to attract qualified pilots.
AusWhirly I'll be watching you guys with keen interest.
GG
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From the desk of Bristow Management - NOT!
FTE,
It appears you've made a lot of fans on this forum in a very short space of time. That's quite some doing! Clearly in your bookshop travels, you haven't as yet come across "How to Win Friends and Influence People". You might try chasing it up.
Again your logic is a little askew. You say your not an idiot but then follow it up with comments that suggest (prove?) otherwise. I'm quite sure that any of the major offshore operators would gladly employ a pilot from one of the other players provided they interviewed well etc.
Your assertion that such pilots might be too "Bristowized" (and therefore presumably the others would be too "CHCized" or "Jayrowized") is well...
... Hang on a sec, I'm just having a look to see if I can find any other posts on Rotorheads quite as ridiculous. Bugger - no joy. You win the award for silliest, off the cuff comment on Rotorheads.
About the only thing you've said that makes sense would be in regard to Bristow Australia's requirement to have new pilots move to Perth. Now as I'm NOT Bristow management, I have no power to change this.
I do agree with you that having someone move across the country as Bristow's currently require is off the mark. I'm sure plenty of good people (RTE - note I said good people) have bypassed Bristow's as a result. It is and will continue to be to Bristow's detriment.
Nothing wrong with having an attitude mate but you might want to channel it a little more effectively... you know, in order to win all those friends and influence people etc.
papa68
It appears you've made a lot of fans on this forum in a very short space of time. That's quite some doing! Clearly in your bookshop travels, you haven't as yet come across "How to Win Friends and Influence People". You might try chasing it up.
Again your logic is a little askew. You say your not an idiot but then follow it up with comments that suggest (prove?) otherwise. I'm quite sure that any of the major offshore operators would gladly employ a pilot from one of the other players provided they interviewed well etc.
Your assertion that such pilots might be too "Bristowized" (and therefore presumably the others would be too "CHCized" or "Jayrowized") is well...
... Hang on a sec, I'm just having a look to see if I can find any other posts on Rotorheads quite as ridiculous. Bugger - no joy. You win the award for silliest, off the cuff comment on Rotorheads.
About the only thing you've said that makes sense would be in regard to Bristow Australia's requirement to have new pilots move to Perth.
Now as I'm NOT Bristow management, I have no power to change this. I do agree with you that having someone move across the country as Bristow's currently require is off the mark. I'm sure plenty of good people (RTE - note I said good people) have bypassed Bristow's as a result. It is and will continue to be to Bristow's detriment.
Nothing wrong with having an attitude mate but you might want to channel it a little more effectively... you know, in order to win all those friends and influence people etc.
papa68
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Bristow Oz pay deal
Hi guys and girls,
I'm with the opposition and I'm wondering if there's any truth to the rumours of "massive pay rises" at Bristow Oz. I've heard that a casual coey can make $500 per day (not sure gross or net), and that they are moving guys to Karratha.
Anyone with accurate news?
Thanks.
I'm with the opposition and I'm wondering if there's any truth to the rumours of "massive pay rises" at Bristow Oz. I've heard that a casual coey can make $500 per day (not sure gross or net), and that they are moving guys to Karratha.
Anyone with accurate news?
Thanks.
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HLP,
You hear right (almost). There may be a massive payrise happening, but not with the full time guys!!
The deal is for a fixed 12 month contract, which can be extended by another 12 months. I figures it's the Companies attempt to attract North Sea guys. The rates are gross and are;
Capt: $720 day + DTA
SFO: $650 day + DTA
FO: $550 day + DTA.
Flights from anywhere in the world are also included in this.
Must come with an endorsment and suitable experince to fit into one of the categories. They were looking ofr 10 guys on each type (AS332L & S76). I am led to beleive that they are largly filled (7 X 76 and 7 by SP...roughly?)
Thing that really sucks about this, is that the Company keeps telling the full time guys (many of whom have showed 'committment' by moving to Perth, or moved back East, but still pay for airfares) that there is no more money to pay us, we have the best deal possible. Looks like a pretty big slap in the face when a deal is put on the table right in the middle of pay negotiations.
When Grassisgreeener made his post, it was intially about BHA pilots leaving. The biggest affect of this deal has been to damage morale. A few guys have started looking elsewhere, not only in Oz, but overseas. The say they are waiting for the vote. If it doesn't come off, time to punch out.
My concern, as someone who enjoys working for the Company, is that we will loose good people that we shouldn't have to for something so trivial.
I just hope all of our guys stick to their guns.
You hear right (almost). There may be a massive payrise happening, but not with the full time guys!!
The deal is for a fixed 12 month contract, which can be extended by another 12 months. I figures it's the Companies attempt to attract North Sea guys. The rates are gross and are;
Capt: $720 day + DTA
SFO: $650 day + DTA
FO: $550 day + DTA.
Flights from anywhere in the world are also included in this.
Must come with an endorsment and suitable experince to fit into one of the categories. They were looking ofr 10 guys on each type (AS332L & S76). I am led to beleive that they are largly filled (7 X 76 and 7 by SP...roughly?)
Thing that really sucks about this, is that the Company keeps telling the full time guys (many of whom have showed 'committment' by moving to Perth, or moved back East, but still pay for airfares) that there is no more money to pay us, we have the best deal possible. Looks like a pretty big slap in the face when a deal is put on the table right in the middle of pay negotiations.
When Grassisgreeener made his post, it was intially about BHA pilots leaving. The biggest affect of this deal has been to damage morale. A few guys have started looking elsewhere, not only in Oz, but overseas. The say they are waiting for the vote. If it doesn't come off, time to punch out.
My concern, as someone who enjoys working for the Company, is that we will loose good people that we shouldn't have to for something so trivial.
I just hope all of our guys stick to their guns.
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There was talk that Jayrow management were heard to casually comment that they would give their guys whatever Bristow got plus some... I find it an unlikley anecdote but it might finally signal good times for the industry.
Maybe some of the prosperity will filter down and we might get paid as much as an offshore cleaner!? Heres hoping
Maybe some of the prosperity will filter down and we might get paid as much as an offshore cleaner!? Heres hoping
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No contractors, more money....
Thing that really sucks about this, is that the Company keeps telling the full time guys (many of whom have showed 'committment' by moving to Perth, or moved back East, but still pay for airfares) that there is no more money to pay us, we have the best deal possible. Looks like a pretty big slap in the face when a deal is put on the table right in the middle of pay negotiations
Fortunately, our CLA doesn't allow the company to hire contractors, so all the salary increase is invested into people committed to a career within. As a result we get a more stable workforce, which is good for both the pilots and the company.
Excuse me if I've missed the point. Can't imagine for a second Bristow will bring in any of our North Sea friends as foreign contractors, whatever the daily rates? Foreign doctors and nurses etc, for sure, shortages of occupants in those professions are desperately needed here. But there are so many helicopter pilots in Australia not working who should be working that it would be inconceivable that the necessary visa for foreign helicopter pilot contractors would be granted.
I thought on recent form that Bristows were putting on low experience local hires and nuturing them through their training systems, and for which they should be commended. Is that still not the case??
$500/day + DTA for FO's is a good rate, better money than working as a P1 in PNG.
I thought on recent form that Bristows were putting on low experience local hires and nuturing them through their training systems, and for which they should be commended. Is that still not the case??
$500/day + DTA for FO's is a good rate, better money than working as a P1 in PNG.
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flungdung & gulliBell,
Hate to rain on your parade, but there are a few North Sea guys (OK contractors, not full timers) arriving tomorrow to start in Karratha on these rates.......
It's actually not that bad for them. OK granted, Karratha may not be the best place to work/live (consider Shetlands/Nigeria/etc...can't comment on them as I have not been there, but Karratha does have a bit to offer.....), but the rate is not too different to what they are currently on as contractors. Let me elaborate....
Current captain rate: $720 Aus + DTA = around $820.
Current BIAGL rate: 320 pounds, no DTA = $736.
It is no coincidence that the $720/day kinda works out to $736 once converted from British Pounds. It's the additional DTA that get them over the line here, therefore putting the onto a better deal than BIAGL.
Keep in mind that when the rate is so close, throw into the deal the fact that a year in OZ might be a good thing/nice holiday or change, I can tell you. IT'S A FACT: There are guys coming from the UK, as much as I F#@%ing hate it!! Unfortunately, we don't have that nice little protection clause over here, even though it has been fought with the federation!
All we can do is stick to our guns & work hard to come up with the best deal we can get. If it has a flow on affect to the industry...you beauty!! Let's grow together!
Also:
Good point, you are partially correct. This is kind of the case, except that the Company is growing at such a rate (including turning contracts down, as I'm sure the other 2 operators are doing due to manpower shortages) that the system simply cannot keep up.
If suitable applicants were there & the trainers could train them, they would be filling seats, trust me. There was a time not too long ago when the main shortage was lack of hardware (aircraft). With the new types being introduced into Bristow the world over (I hope we get them one day
) and the old equipment is being sent here to squeeze the final years out, now software (pilots) is now the main limitation.
Hate to rain on your parade, but there are a few North Sea guys (OK contractors, not full timers) arriving tomorrow to start in Karratha on these rates.......
It's actually not that bad for them. OK granted, Karratha may not be the best place to work/live (consider Shetlands/Nigeria/etc...can't comment on them as I have not been there, but Karratha does have a bit to offer.....), but the rate is not too different to what they are currently on as contractors. Let me elaborate....
Current captain rate: $720 Aus + DTA = around $820.
Current BIAGL rate: 320 pounds, no DTA = $736.
It is no coincidence that the $720/day kinda works out to $736 once converted from British Pounds. It's the additional DTA that get them over the line here, therefore putting the onto a better deal than BIAGL.
Keep in mind that when the rate is so close, throw into the deal the fact that a year in OZ might be a good thing/nice holiday or change, I can tell you. IT'S A FACT: There are guys coming from the UK, as much as I F#@%ing hate it!! Unfortunately, we don't have that nice little protection clause over here, even though it has been fought with the federation!
All we can do is stick to our guns & work hard to come up with the best deal we can get. If it has a flow on affect to the industry...you beauty!! Let's grow together!
Also:
I thought on recent form that Bristows were putting on low experience local hires and nuturing them through their training systems, and for which they should be commended. Is that still not the case??
If suitable applicants were there & the trainers could train them, they would be filling seats, trust me. There was a time not too long ago when the main shortage was lack of hardware (aircraft). With the new types being introduced into Bristow the world over (I hope we get them one day
) and the old equipment is being sent here to squeeze the final years out, now software (pilots) is now the main limitation.
Last edited by AusWhirlyBusDriver; 15th Oct 2007 at 14:23.
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Jayrow sets the Mark I think
I always have been a Great Supporter of this local underdog, and Yes you would be suprised James.
Didn't Jayrow bring in the 3 week roster and live anywhere in Oz that you want?....Whilst CHC pushed you to Darwin and BH to Perth.
And you had to fund your own passage to home if home was not in those two capital cities.
And now with a C++ to play with and 2 x 139's or order?
My informant also says he now gets his family around the world on holidays free, because of the new managements viewpoint of not screwing staff as hard as the rest seem to do.
Didn't Jayrow bring in the 3 week roster and live anywhere in Oz that you want?....Whilst CHC pushed you to Darwin and BH to Perth.
And you had to fund your own passage to home if home was not in those two capital cities.
And now with a C++ to play with and 2 x 139's or order?
My informant also says he now gets his family around the world on holidays free, because of the new managements viewpoint of not screwing staff as hard as the rest seem to do.
