Guimbal Cabri G2
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Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: italy
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G2 for cruise
Hello everybody, I think I've read everything that is actually on the internet but I still have some doubt about the performance of this aircraft.
Because I can maybe only manage to operate an helicopter of this size and due to the fact that the r22 scares me for some reasons, I would like to understand if this ship is ok for some vfr trips around italy. And because of this I'm mostly interested in cruise performance. Until now I cannot have a clear picture regarding this aspect of the aircraft. From what I can read on the website they say it cruise at 100kts, and that could be very good for me. But, are those 100kts achievable every time at for example 1500ft, isa+10, 2 light pax, some luggage and let's say 130liters in the tank? even the flight manual seems to have different reviews I think. Is it correct that the max cruise is at the yellow threshold and the economy is 10% less than the yellow threshold? What will the performance be in the load scenario above? Is it realistic to fly most of the time at for example 1-2% less than the yellow threshold without wear components? Is the aircraft seem to fly nicely at this setting or it screams and vibrate or something else?
Another point: with enough practice can I fly with 30kts of wind on the ground? is It safe to operate? start and stop the rotor an so on?
thanks if you are so kind to answer me, it's very appreciated.
best regards
Andrea
Because I can maybe only manage to operate an helicopter of this size and due to the fact that the r22 scares me for some reasons, I would like to understand if this ship is ok for some vfr trips around italy. And because of this I'm mostly interested in cruise performance. Until now I cannot have a clear picture regarding this aspect of the aircraft. From what I can read on the website they say it cruise at 100kts, and that could be very good for me. But, are those 100kts achievable every time at for example 1500ft, isa+10, 2 light pax, some luggage and let's say 130liters in the tank? even the flight manual seems to have different reviews I think. Is it correct that the max cruise is at the yellow threshold and the economy is 10% less than the yellow threshold? What will the performance be in the load scenario above? Is it realistic to fly most of the time at for example 1-2% less than the yellow threshold without wear components? Is the aircraft seem to fly nicely at this setting or it screams and vibrate or something else?
Another point: with enough practice can I fly with 30kts of wind on the ground? is It safe to operate? start and stop the rotor an so on?
thanks if you are so kind to answer me, it's very appreciated.
best regards
Andrea
Hello everybody, I think I've read everything that is actually on the internet but I still have some doubt about the performance of this aircraft.
Because I can maybe only manage to operate an helicopter of this size and due to the fact that the r22 scares me for some reasons, I would like to understand if this ship is ok for some vfr trips around italy. And because of this I'm mostly interested in cruise performance. Until now I cannot have a clear picture regarding this aspect of the aircraft. From what I can read on the website they say it cruise at 100kts, and that could be very good for me. But, are those 100kts achievable every time at for example 1500ft, isa+10, 2 light pax, some luggage and let's say 130liters in the tank? even the flight manual seems to have different reviews I think. Is it correct that the max cruise is at the yellow threshold and the economy is 10% less than the yellow threshold? What will the performance be in the load scenario above? Is it realistic to fly most of the time at for example 1-2% less than the yellow threshold without wear components? Is the aircraft seem to fly nicely at this setting or it screams and vibrate or something else?
Another point: with enough practice can I fly with 30kts of wind on the ground? is It safe to operate? start and stop the rotor an so on?
thanks if you are so kind to answer me, it's very appreciated.
best regards
Andrea
Because I can maybe only manage to operate an helicopter of this size and due to the fact that the r22 scares me for some reasons, I would like to understand if this ship is ok for some vfr trips around italy. And because of this I'm mostly interested in cruise performance. Until now I cannot have a clear picture regarding this aspect of the aircraft. From what I can read on the website they say it cruise at 100kts, and that could be very good for me. But, are those 100kts achievable every time at for example 1500ft, isa+10, 2 light pax, some luggage and let's say 130liters in the tank? even the flight manual seems to have different reviews I think. Is it correct that the max cruise is at the yellow threshold and the economy is 10% less than the yellow threshold? What will the performance be in the load scenario above? Is it realistic to fly most of the time at for example 1-2% less than the yellow threshold without wear components? Is the aircraft seem to fly nicely at this setting or it screams and vibrate or something else?
Another point: with enough practice can I fly with 30kts of wind on the ground? is It safe to operate? start and stop the rotor an so on?
thanks if you are so kind to answer me, it's very appreciated.
best regards
Andrea
Its built for safety not performance, so I doubt you'd be able to get 100kts fully loaded,...but then I've never flown one. As for picking up in 30kts of wind (from what I've read about its tail rotor) your feet definitely need to be awake for that. I've hovered a 22 in that much wind and my feet were doing the Charleston!
Hello everybody, I think I've read everything that is actually on the internet but I still have some doubt about the performance of this aircraft.
Because I can maybe only manage to operate an helicopter of this size and due to the fact that the r22 scares me for some reasons, I would like to understand if this ship is ok for some vfr trips around italy. And because of this I'm mostly interested in cruise performance. Until now I cannot have a clear picture regarding this aspect of the aircraft. From what I can read on the website they say it cruise at 100kts, and that could be very good for me. But, are those 100kts achievable every time at for example 1500ft, isa+10, 2 light pax, some luggage and let's say 130liters in the tank? even the flight manual seems to have different reviews I think. Is it correct that the max cruise is at the yellow threshold and the economy is 10% less than the yellow threshold? What will the performance be in the load scenario above? Is it realistic to fly most of the time at for example 1-2% less than the yellow threshold without wear components? Is the aircraft seem to fly nicely at this setting or it screams and vibrate or something else?
Another point: with enough practice can I fly with 30kts of wind on the ground? is It safe to operate? start and stop the rotor an so on?
thanks if you are so kind to answer me, it's very appreciated.
best regards
Andrea
Because I can maybe only manage to operate an helicopter of this size and due to the fact that the r22 scares me for some reasons, I would like to understand if this ship is ok for some vfr trips around italy. And because of this I'm mostly interested in cruise performance. Until now I cannot have a clear picture regarding this aspect of the aircraft. From what I can read on the website they say it cruise at 100kts, and that could be very good for me. But, are those 100kts achievable every time at for example 1500ft, isa+10, 2 light pax, some luggage and let's say 130liters in the tank? even the flight manual seems to have different reviews I think. Is it correct that the max cruise is at the yellow threshold and the economy is 10% less than the yellow threshold? What will the performance be in the load scenario above? Is it realistic to fly most of the time at for example 1-2% less than the yellow threshold without wear components? Is the aircraft seem to fly nicely at this setting or it screams and vibrate or something else?
Another point: with enough practice can I fly with 30kts of wind on the ground? is It safe to operate? start and stop the rotor an so on?
thanks if you are so kind to answer me, it's very appreciated.
best regards
Andrea
Operating with 30kts of wind: I wouldn't recommend it, but it's possible. The 'maximum demonstrated' start-up / shut-down limits are 40kts wind according to the RFM. The issue however would be with a heavy helicopter, hovering out of wind will be very tricky. It's best to keep the nose into wind and avoid taxiing crosswind / downwind if possible. Also bear in mind it is a small helicopter, and at 30kts wind, even with small hills / terrain you will experience a lot of turbulence, so best to leave the flight for another day (in my opinion).
Regarding component wear if cruise power is consistently set close to MCP, I don't know, as that is rarely how the aircraft is flown by most operators. Maybe contact a large operator such as Swiss Helicopter in Switzerland and ask them for advice (or contact Guimbal directly, their customer service seems to be quite good according to surveys).
Finally, you might want to ask Mona Seeberger on her thoughts of the Cabri G2 in italy - she flew one around Italy a few years ago
I'd plan for 80 KIAS on cross country flights. Yes, 90 is doable with two people but your fuel burn will increase (80 KIAS is best range speed) and the vibrations/wind noise will increase as well. With the cyclic trimmed well the G2 is a very comfortable and easy aircraft to fly cross country. Not sure what the passenger/luggage weight is going to be for you but 2.5 hours of flight time shouldn't be much of a problem. A full tank would give you a little over 4 hours.
30 kts of winds I wouldn't recommend either. Especially at the private level and flying for pleasure, there is really no need to push the limits. It is definitely doable but requires very proactive pedal work, as well as some snug seatbelts as you will get kicked around quite a bit.
With component wear, I don't see an issue as long as you stay out of the yellow range in cruise. If you pull into the yellow in cruise the component that will start to wear is the TGB. But again, we don't usually push our G2s to 90 KIAS for extended periods of time because of ride comfort and fuel burn.
30 kts of winds I wouldn't recommend either. Especially at the private level and flying for pleasure, there is really no need to push the limits. It is definitely doable but requires very proactive pedal work, as well as some snug seatbelts as you will get kicked around quite a bit.
With component wear, I don't see an issue as long as you stay out of the yellow range in cruise. If you pull into the yellow in cruise the component that will start to wear is the TGB. But again, we don't usually push our G2s to 90 KIAS for extended periods of time because of ride comfort and fuel burn.
I am rated on both Cabri and R22. I can confirm what Verticalspin reports. 80, not 90 KT.
i wouldn’t worry about the wind too much. Unless it results in significant turbulence. And in that case, in the Cabri you are in a very good place!
i wouldn’t worry about the wind too much. Unless it results in significant turbulence. And in that case, in the Cabri you are in a very good place!
Join Date: Jan 2022
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Thanks to all!!
So I pretty much understood that yes, it will cruise at 100kts only empty and alone and yes I can cruise at 90 with two light pax (well two on) and 3/4-half tank but it seem to push a little.
at 11:20 min of the Mona's video in fact I can see 90kts (which is 93 of tas) at 1500ft and 92% on the MLI and later 73kts at 100% at 7500, so around 85 tas. I think that they were pushing to reach Venice before the night. Of course I can't see if they were flying leveled or in a light climb or descent, so mine are only assumptions.
So the typical mission which is for me 220 nm can be done but it will take around 2h30'-2h40' where an r44 will do that in 2 hours. But al least it can be done talking about fuel and reasonable real life wind.
can be said 80% 80kts, 90% 90kts, low and half loaded and 2 onboard?
An other question come in my mind: If you have to fly over water for 20/30 min during this mission, do you necessarily wear floats? I know that would be better for sure but I don't know how helicopter world thinks about that. I'm in the fixed wing world as you can imagine (+3000hours, but around 3hrs in heli) and with a light plane like a cirrus, for example, I would certainly have no problem to do that flight with an emergency dinghy (and sometimes without). But since there's no space in a cabri for a dinghy and since it's an helicopter I would like to have your opinion.
By the way all the 3hrs are In a r22, so it scares me a little, not when flying to be true (it's really nice to fly) but more when reading... And I think I will enjoy more, in a long term, the no mast bumping option of the cabri and the newer design.
thanks again
Andrea
So I pretty much understood that yes, it will cruise at 100kts only empty and alone and yes I can cruise at 90 with two light pax (well two on) and 3/4-half tank but it seem to push a little.
at 11:20 min of the Mona's video in fact I can see 90kts (which is 93 of tas) at 1500ft and 92% on the MLI and later 73kts at 100% at 7500, so around 85 tas. I think that they were pushing to reach Venice before the night. Of course I can't see if they were flying leveled or in a light climb or descent, so mine are only assumptions.
So the typical mission which is for me 220 nm can be done but it will take around 2h30'-2h40' where an r44 will do that in 2 hours. But al least it can be done talking about fuel and reasonable real life wind.
can be said 80% 80kts, 90% 90kts, low and half loaded and 2 onboard?
An other question come in my mind: If you have to fly over water for 20/30 min during this mission, do you necessarily wear floats? I know that would be better for sure but I don't know how helicopter world thinks about that. I'm in the fixed wing world as you can imagine (+3000hours, but around 3hrs in heli) and with a light plane like a cirrus, for example, I would certainly have no problem to do that flight with an emergency dinghy (and sometimes without). But since there's no space in a cabri for a dinghy and since it's an helicopter I would like to have your opinion.
By the way all the 3hrs are In a r22, so it scares me a little, not when flying to be true (it's really nice to fly) but more when reading... And I think I will enjoy more, in a long term, the no mast bumping option of the cabri and the newer design.
thanks again
Andrea
Thanks to all!!
So I pretty much understood that yes, it will cruise at 100kts only empty and alone and yes I can cruise at 90 with two light pax (well two on) and 3/4-half tank but it seem to push a little.
at 11:20 min of the Mona's video in fact I can see 90kts (which is 93 of tas) at 1500ft and 92% on the MLI and later 73kts at 100% at 7500, so around 85 tas. I think that they were pushing to reach Venice before the night. Of course I can't see if they were flying leveled or in a light climb or descent, so mine are only assumptions.
So the typical mission which is for me 220 nm can be done but it will take around 2h30'-2h40' where an r44 will do that in 2 hours. But al least it can be done talking about fuel and reasonable real life wind.
can be said 80% 80kts, 90% 90kts, low and half loaded and 2 onboard?
An other question come in my mind: If you have to fly over water for 20/30 min during this mission, do you necessarily wear floats? I know that would be better for sure but I don't know how helicopter world thinks about that. I'm in the fixed wing world as you can imagine (+3000hours, but around 3hrs in heli) and with a light plane like a cirrus, for example, I would certainly have no problem to do that flight with an emergency dinghy (and sometimes without). But since there's no space in a cabri for a dinghy and since it's an helicopter I would like to have your opinion.
By the way all the 3hrs are In a r22, so it scares me a little, not when flying to be true (it's really nice to fly) but more when reading... And I think I will enjoy more, in a long term, the no mast bumping option of the cabri and the newer design.
thanks again
Andrea
So I pretty much understood that yes, it will cruise at 100kts only empty and alone and yes I can cruise at 90 with two light pax (well two on) and 3/4-half tank but it seem to push a little.
at 11:20 min of the Mona's video in fact I can see 90kts (which is 93 of tas) at 1500ft and 92% on the MLI and later 73kts at 100% at 7500, so around 85 tas. I think that they were pushing to reach Venice before the night. Of course I can't see if they were flying leveled or in a light climb or descent, so mine are only assumptions.
So the typical mission which is for me 220 nm can be done but it will take around 2h30'-2h40' where an r44 will do that in 2 hours. But al least it can be done talking about fuel and reasonable real life wind.
can be said 80% 80kts, 90% 90kts, low and half loaded and 2 onboard?
An other question come in my mind: If you have to fly over water for 20/30 min during this mission, do you necessarily wear floats? I know that would be better for sure but I don't know how helicopter world thinks about that. I'm in the fixed wing world as you can imagine (+3000hours, but around 3hrs in heli) and with a light plane like a cirrus, for example, I would certainly have no problem to do that flight with an emergency dinghy (and sometimes without). But since there's no space in a cabri for a dinghy and since it's an helicopter I would like to have your opinion.
By the way all the 3hrs are In a r22, so it scares me a little, not when flying to be true (it's really nice to fly) but more when reading... And I think I will enjoy more, in a long term, the no mast bumping option of the cabri and the newer design.
thanks again
Andrea
Though, to be frank, flying over water as regularly as I did, I really with my R22 had floats.
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You'll be a lot more comfortable, have gobs more power margin, go faster, and easily fit 2 plus bags in an R44, and for not that much more an hour compared to a G2. Having flown all three machines including the R22, I'd venture the transition into the R44 from the G2 is likely to be relatively easy, although you will miss the very nice engine instrumentation of the G2. If an R44 Clipper is available to you then you will also have pop-out floats for the over-water leg. An R44 has plenty of tail rotor authority for 20-gust-30, but operations in that sort of wind must be very cautious in all phases of flight. You will most likely not be allowed to train in those winds initially.
I fly an R44 Clipper 2 and for any trip with significant over water operations I use inflatable life vests even with the pop-out floats.
I fly an R44 Clipper 2 and for any trip with significant over water operations I use inflatable life vests even with the pop-out floats.
Last edited by aa777888; 10th Jan 2022 at 21:00.
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Don't warry! I will follow every step of the training with no rush at all. The goal will be those vfr trips but it's just an idea for the future. But this idea could maybe drive better the training from the start; if I will ever be convinced enough about the cabri there's no reason to train in a r22. Otherwise thinking in long terms about an r44 will make the r22 better for sure. In the end I managed to fly single pilot a light jet, aerobatics, gliders and parachutes so I know what you mean by having experience that now isn't there for sure.
What you think about this: "Lycoming, who had required the O-360 engines to be run rich (from concern about cooling the shrouded engine) have now reduced that requirement, for a saving close to 10 liters per hour of fuel burn, and of course a subsequent increase in available power."
There's no mention in the Poh about running the engine lean. Is this a normal procedure?
Of course the 44 will be more capable, but the 12 year overhaul and the operating cost seems to be much higher.
What you think about this: "Lycoming, who had required the O-360 engines to be run rich (from concern about cooling the shrouded engine) have now reduced that requirement, for a saving close to 10 liters per hour of fuel burn, and of course a subsequent increase in available power."
There's no mention in the Poh about running the engine lean. Is this a normal procedure?
Of course the 44 will be more capable, but the 12 year overhaul and the operating cost seems to be much higher.