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Guimbal Cabri G2

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Guimbal Cabri G2

Old 26th Dec 2019, 20:04
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
Well, you could have tried serving your country and then had lots of expensive helicopters to choose from to fly - you pays your money and makes your choice.
Flying military helicopters wasn't an option for me when I would have been eligible, my vision did not pass the requirements of the time. And I've served my country for 35 years and counting.
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Old 26th Dec 2019, 22:31
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Originally Posted by Robbiee
Most of the places I flew R22s seemed to just get rid of them at 2200 hours. I'm sure they didn't just throw them away (though who knows there certainly are enough of the little buggers around) but they did just replace them with another used (or freshly overhauled) one. Either way I never saw the same 22 twice at one school.
This has changed over the years as the overhaul policies have changed... When your only choice in the US was to ship the R22 back to California and wait six months, there was a cottage industry of people who would buy timed out hulls, overhaul them, and then sell them when the overhaul was complete. If I remember, a timed out hull was worth about $25K back then.

Now that just about anyone can buy the overhaul kit and have it ready on the shelf when the machine times out, I think it's a lot more common to keep the machine and just overhaul it as fast as you can. I suppose this depends a bit on your maintenance situation... One of the schools in our area has a single person maintenance facility... With private owners who need to be kept flying... Obviously they can't dedicate 100% of his time to an overhaul, so there is the question if you can afford to have the machine sitting there until he has the time to finish the overhaul.

At the school I teach at, with over 40 aircraft ( mostly fixed wing ) they have a big enough maintenance staff they can throw 3 mechanics at the task if they want.

The other obvious thing to consider is who owns the aircraft and who is paying for the overhaul. I imagine the equation is substantially different for a leaseback than for a school owned aircraft... ( assuming the school owns the maintenance department )
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Old 26th Dec 2019, 23:01
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Originally Posted by Bell_ringer
And that is the crux of every discussion on these topics.
Must be cheap, cheap, cheeeeeap (anyone else hear birdies?), because cheap = better.

The only real downside to the Cabri is that it's useless at high density altitude.
Chasing away a few punters who can't see beyond the nickels and dimes, seems like another pro to me
I realise some of what you said is sarcasm, but really, the downside in the US is indeed price. We gave up on R22s after our second rollover, and have been exclusively R44 since then. However we aren't in the competitive and very price sensitive professional track training business ( although certainly some of our students are professional track). We mostly cater to wealthier people who will buy a 44, 66, 206 or similar after they complete their training. So, they aren't as price sensitive as the kid who is borrowing money for his training.

If we tried to be competitive against pro track schools operating R22s we would quickly be out of business. Like it or not, the first, second, and third most important questions you get asked are "how much?". If you can't be within $25 to maybe $50/hr of the competition, you won't get that student.

I realize the economics in Europe are different, and it might not be so black and white, but trying to do a pro track school here with anything except R22s is extremely difficult. More specialized training, maybe, but standard private/commercial/instrument/instructor training really requires the R22 for you to not be at a huge disadvantage.

If it was just a "few punters" it would be different, but at least here it's just the opposite... A few people have the means to train in a "better" helicopter, but the majority of the potential student base is price sensitive enough that only the R22 works economically.
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Old 26th Dec 2019, 23:40
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In the end its the same line of ink on the same piece of pastic. You wanna pay more for it, that's between you and your wallet.

,...and maybe your psychiatrist
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Old 26th Dec 2019, 23:58
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Originally Posted by Robbiee
In the end its the same line of ink on the same piece of pastic. You wanna pay more for it, that's between you and your wallet.

,...and maybe your psychiatrist
I mostly agree. I think our guys having all R44 time may have a slight advantage in the interview process for their first turbine job... Having 1,000 hours in the four seat aircraft arguably is an easier transition into a 5 or 7 seat aircraft than 1,000 hours in an R22... Maybe at least puts them a little higher up in the stack of resumes... But they probably paid a $20,000 premium during initial training, so, yeah. $$$
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Old 27th Dec 2019, 05:01
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Originally Posted by Robbiee
In the end its the same line of ink on the same piece of pastic. You wanna pay more for it, that's between you and your wallet.
I wouldn't choose my Doctor, Lawyer or accountant on cost.
I certainly wouldn't choose my training on that basis either.
It is unsustainable and corners get cut (or at best sharpened), it's great until it ends in tears.

Price is how people are wired in this consumer-driven world and it is putting many a business in the toilet.
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Old 27th Dec 2019, 08:00
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Angel Gee2 there's two of 'em

Why choose either these Ladies; Robust, Rugged, Reliable, Dependable, Trimmed correctly She's All Yours (sounds like an Enstrom..almost) Beautiful to look at & fun to fly. Heck in this market, why would You choose anything less & the runner up prize goes to Enstrom & the 47 (original Queen of the Sky)


Bell_Ringer stated it right! There is no compromise on Value & Quality, please don't compromise Your Safety to save a few pennies, especially with Family
Do the Right thing Go G2 (& Go Vegan, both will save Your Life)
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Old 27th Dec 2019, 10:46
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I wouldn't choose my Doctor, Lawyer or accountant on cost.
But most patients, litigants, tax payers do. Either because they are not doctors, lawyers or accountants and dont know any other way to choose, or because simply most people are cash poor.

And this is why IMHO, this repetitive thread is so silly. Most people struggle to pay for their flying and cant afford anything better. The ab initio student will end up with the cheapest option, or with the first school they are recommended because they have no way of assessing quality and safety, and the more experienced will fly the best ship they can afford. Hopefully by then they will have some idea about risk and the size of the envelope. It is a free world, just.
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Old 27th Dec 2019, 15:25
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Originally Posted by Bell_ringer
I wouldn't choose my Doctor, Lawyer or accountant on cost.
I certainly wouldn't choose my training on that basis either.
It is unsustainable and corners get cut (or at best sharpened), it's great until it ends in tears.

Price is how people are wired in this consumer-driven world and it is putting many a business in the toilet.
I did not chose my school based on cost, nor did I chose it based on which model of helicopter they used. There were two schools in my area, the chief pilot at the first school rubbed me the wrong way, so I went to the second school. The fact that they flew Robby was incidental.

After I became a pilot, I moved back to California to work with my father. When I looked for a place to rent a helicopter the first place I found had Schweizers, so I took one up. I was not thrilled by its performance and/or feel, so I went searching for another school to rent from.

Finally I did find another place to rent from, it was an hour and a half drive (due to the insane traffic out here) but they had Robby, and as a renter I found Robby much more fun to fly!

Fortunately for me the helicopter I liked better was also cheaper. I've often asked myself if Robby was more expensive would I have gone with Schweizer as a renter? I guess the answer depends on how much desposable income I had,...because I really didn't like flying Schweizer!

I've never flown a G2 as no school around me has one to rent. Now if a school opened up and had a G2 and a Robby for the same price, sure I'd check out the G2, but with 511 solo hours in Robby I've developed a fondness for the little guy so I'd probably still stick with him,...or perhaps alternate between the two every other month,...if, that is, I liked flying the G2. Thing is, I have actually flown a few different fully-articulated machines and personality prefer the feel of a semi-ridged rotor, so, that's also one more point on Robby's side for me.

Anyway, when I learned how to fly, I never said to myself, "I wish I was in a better helicopter". I was having too much fun flying Robby! The only schools around may have been using the cheapest option for them, but it in no way cheapened my training!

I have a lot of regrets in my life, learning how to fly in an R22, then renting one for sixteen and and a half years is not one of them!
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Old 27th Dec 2019, 15:37
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Originally Posted by Vertical Freedom
Why choose either these Ladies; Robust, Rugged, Reliable, Dependable, Trimmed correctly She's All Yours (sounds like an Enstrom..almost) Beautiful to look at & fun to fly. Heck in this market, why would You choose anything less & the runner up prize goes to Enstrom & the 47 (original Queen of the Sky)


Bell_Ringer stated it right! There is no compromise on Value & Quality, please don't compromise Your Safety to save a few pennies, especially with Family
Do the Right thing Go G2 (& Go Vegan, both will save Your Life)
You definitely win the prize for best fear propaganda poster!

This one put a huge smile on my face,...thanks!
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Old 31st Jan 2020, 13:25
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.
For whom who like to Watch TV instead of outside :

Garmin G500 TXi (10' Touchscreen)




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Old 31st Jan 2020, 18:18
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That's the 7" display; I have the exact same one in my R44.
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Old 31st Jan 2020, 18:50
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Originally Posted by CGameProgrammerr
That's the 7" display; I have the exact same one in my R44.
Hello CGP,

Can we make a deal at 8.5' ?!

You're absolutely right, that's the 7' !
.
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Old 15th Feb 2020, 07:09
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Are you still about Fluffy??

Originally Posted by fluffy5
Well you lovers of this aircraft mark my words, in a few years time the nasty little problems will emerge due to unforeseen maintenanace issues of a new airframe on the market, and with students clanking it down on the ground, and then you will see how expensive it will be to rectify.
I will shut up for now, but I will revive this thread and laugh whole heartedly when the time comes.
Just to get a few in for now .......

Fluffy
Just read thru this thread from the start, there has been some interesting debates over the time this machine has been available. I wonder if Fluffy has started laughing yet???
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Old 9th Mar 2020, 20:33
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Originally Posted by CGameProgrammerr
That's the 7" display; I have the exact same one in my R44.
Keep in mind that the EPM just below is a 6,5" screen.
I think that the Garmin is a 10,6" version... even though a 7" version is available.
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Old 3rd May 2020, 09:40
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I was just wondering how the lockdown and virus will affect Flight Training Schools especially ones with Cabris?
Due to the extra cost of flying the Cabri, will students just disappear or will they now decide to train on the cheaper R22?
Will FTOs reduce the Cabri Training rate to entice students in, will they increase the training rate to cover the lost revenue during the pandemic or will they simply get rid of the Cabri and concentrate on the R22.
I’m not sure which way the training industry will go.
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Old 3rd May 2020, 14:38
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Originally Posted by KNIEVEL77
I was just wondering how the lockdown and virus will affect Flight Training Schools especially ones with Cabris?
Due to the extra cost of flying the Cabri, will students just disappear or will they now decide to train on the cheaper R22?
Will FTOs reduce the Cabri Training rate to entice students in, will they increase the training rate to cover the lost revenue during the pandemic or will they simply get rid of the Cabri and concentrate on the R22.
I’m not sure which way the training industry will go.
I suppose the same could be asked of the schools who only use the R44, as well as the ones with all the "extra" stuff, like long line training, NVG training, and turbine transitions added in to make their entry level CFIs "extra" hireable?

Then again, helicopters have always been for for those with rich parents, GI money, and/or who qualify for heafty student loans,...so nothing may change at all?
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Old 3rd May 2020, 19:08
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Then again, helicopters have always been for for those with rich parents, GI money, and/or who qualify for heafty student loans,...so nothing may change at all?
... and for those who were following their childhood dream, never gave up no matter what hurdle they had to take, worked hard, saved every cent they earnt in whatever job they could get their hands on and finally succeeded.
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Old 4th May 2020, 03:41
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Originally Posted by Spunk
... and for those who were following their childhood dream, never gave up no matter what hurdle they had to take, worked hard, saved every cent they earnt in whatever job they could get their hands on and finally succeeded.
If the industry had to rely on people who could both pay their way through life and save enough for training,...?

,...there'd be like ten pilots in the whole world! Seriously, when I was living in my car working two jobs I still couldn't afford flight school!
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Old 4th May 2020, 07:40
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Or, serve your country, join the military and get paid to learn to fly
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