Guimbal Cabri G2

[Robbiee]

Originally Posted by Bravo73

Probably for a similar reason as to why some people want to spend £/$10,000 on a 2 seater car whilst others are happy to spend £/$100,000.

That's a bit of a stretch. If the R22 were say a $12k Saturn the Cabri is certainly not a $100k Corvette. Especially since they have the same engine!

​​​​​​From what I've seen, its basically a luxury version of the 300. So that's essentially comparing a $10k car from the 60's to the same $10k car made today,...but with the same level of engine performance and still without air conditioning.

In other words, you're charging me $100 bucks more an hour than your R22 to fly this thing, but I can't take more people, its not faster, it (apparently) doesn't HOGE as well, and it doesn't come with air conditioning. So, why do you want more money for it?

[Bravo73]

Originally Posted by Robbiee

…the Cabri is certainly not a $100k Corvette.

I didn’t say that it was. You are reading too much into the analogy.

To you, the price or cost would appear to be the single most important factor. To lots of others, it isn’t.

[Robbiee]

Originally Posted by Bravo73

I didn’t say that it was. You are reading too much into the analogy.

To you, the price or cost would appear to be the single most important factor. To lots of others, it isn’t.

Not just price. The difference in quality of a $10k car and a $100k car is not comparable to the difference between the Cabri and its two-seat piston competition,...nor is the performance difference, especially given that an R22 is faster. Its not even avionics as R22's also have glass cockpit options.

So what's left,...body style?

[aa777888]

Actually, you can get AC in a Cabri. It's a catalog option. It'll cost you 24 lbs of payload that you can't afford to lose, and $23,000USD.

While I was perusing their online configurator, I priced a similarly equipped G2 and Raven I. Both can be had with a G500 panel, GTN navigator, GTX345, heated pitot, some USB outlets, nice paint (included on the Raven), leather, and fire extinguisher, i.e. both are super nice inside.

Cabri = $473K USD
Raven I = $508K USD.

Not sure why anyone would buy a G2 at that price point.

[Robbiee]

Originally Posted by aa777888

Actually, you can get AC in a Cabri. It's a catalog option. It'll cost you 24 lbs of payload that you can't afford to lose, and $23,000USD.

While I was perusing their online configurator, I priced a similarly equipped G2 and Raven I. Both can be had with a G500 panel, GTN navigator, GTX345, heated pitot, some USB outlets, nice paint (included on the Raven), leather, and fire extinguisher, i.e. both are super nice inside.

Cabri = $473K USD
Raven I = $508K USD.

Not sure why anyone would buy a G2 at that price point.

That close to a Raven, huh. Kinda makes me wonder why they didn't skip the two-seater and just start out with a four seat Cabri?

[helonorth]

Originally Posted by Bravo73

I didn’t say that it was. You are reading too much into the analogy.

To you, the price or cost would appear to be the single most important factor. To lots of others, it isn’t.

It's a bad analogy is the problem as it helps if the two things you are comparing are analogous.

[n5296s]

So to finish the story... flew an R44 today. What a pleasure! I know people say a lot of bad things about Robbos, but compared to the G2 it is a dream to fly. It was a super flight too, all along the coast from Cannes to the Italian border at 500 feet, including a low pass along the runway at Nice - clearance very willingly given by Nice tower. Then a quick climb to 4500 feet over the mountains to an off-airport landing in the snow in the middle of nowhere, and return to Cannes.

[Agile]

Originally Posted by n5296s

So to finish the story... flew an R44 today. What a pleasure! I know people say a lot of bad things about Robbos, but compared to the G2 it is a dream to fly. It was a super flight too, all along the coast from Cannes to the Italian border at 500 feet, including a low pass along the runway at Nice - clearance very willingly given by Nice tower. Then a quick climb to 4500 feet over the mountains to an off-airport landing in the snow in the middle of nowhere, and return to Cannes.

I know this flight outing pattern, its a beauty!, you forgot ot mention the flyby above monaco before heading to the mountain.
I did this similar flight right after I got my AS350B2 type rating from them, it makes you absolutly forget anything about the G2, R44 and anything in between performance wise.
the quick climb you pointed out would go straight to 10,000ft at 2000ft per minute just by slowing from 100 knots to 80 knots (for most of the initial climb)

It's a bad analogy is the problem as it helps if the two things you are comparing are analogous.

just keeping on making bad analogies, every aircraft its own purpose and applicability.

[HeliHenri]

.
First Cabri reaching the 10 000 hours.
First flight 13 years ago (2010).
Only things overhauled during these 13 years and 10 000 hours : engine and transmission.
From the always interesting website HeliHub : https://helihub.com/2023/12/18/first-cabri-g2-reaches-10000-flight-hours/
.

[hargreaves99]

G2s don't seem very popular in the UK. Almost as expensive as an R44 to train on, underpowered compared to the R22, and no obvious bigger 4 seater to to transition onto.

[Hughes500]

Hargreaves99 probably due to the expense and the fact it is not a great training helicopter. I looked at them 10 years ago would have had serial numbers 32 and 33 but didnt like the fenestron for students. Most maintenance companies dont seem to like them eg have to take engine out if alternator fails

[admikar]

Originally Posted by HeliHenri

.
First Cabri reaching the 10 000 hours.
First flight 13 years ago (2010).
Only things overhauled during these 13 years and 10 000 hours : engine and transmission.
From the always interesting website HeliHub : https://helihub.com/2023/12/18/first-cabri-g2-reaches-10000-flight-hours/
.

How much would it cost in overhaul if it was a R22?

[hargreaves99]

Originally Posted by Hughes500

Hargreaves99 probably due to the expense and the fact it is not a great training helicopter. I looked at them 10 years ago would have had serial numbers 32 and 33 but didnt like the fenestron for students. Most maintenance companies dont seem to like them eg have to take engine out if alternator fails

I don't think the fenestron per se is an issue for students who start on the Cabri at the beginning. The issue is when they get their PPL and want to fly a 4 seater to actually go places with people, they have the R44 to get used to, with all it's quirks, and the handling is so much different from the Cabri it's not unusual for people to take 10-15 hours to get their R44 rating. Whereas R22 to R44 is pretty easy.

[Agile]

Originally Posted by admikar

How much would it cost in overhaul if it was a R22?

Simple: USD 114,000 (cost of R22 overhaul) x 5 ( 5x2000h) = USD 570,000

When I read the article linked, I get served the HX50 ad

[hargreaves99]

If you are a uk flight school and you intend to buy a new two seater trainer and keep it for 10-20 years then the Cabri probably works out to be cheaper

But students just look at the hourly rate (ie Cabri is more than R22) and very few UK flight schools can afford the high upfront Cabri purchase cost and don't look more than two weeks ahead.

[Petit-Lion]

It's as if the accounting strategies in use in this industry prioritize consumable materials (including airframes) over high capital assets...