What is your helicopter carbon footprint?
And don't forget that its not that long ago the scientists were forecasting another ice age
From 1958 to 1978 the average global temperature dropped some 0.25[1]C while human emission of CO2 from fossil fuels tripled. This CO2 emission did not contribute to global warming over that period – eliciting suggestions of a coming ice age. Data from 1910 to 1940 indicate a similar increase in temperature as for 1970 to 2000 despite fossil fuel production at that time being around five times lower than it is today! In 1929, the production of fossil fuels was 1.17 gigatons of carbon per year. Following the stock market crash and the depression, human production decreased to 0.88 gigatons per year – a 30% drop. Yet during that same period both atmospheric CO2 and temperature continued to rise at around the same rate as before and in 1934 the ‘dust bowl’ began when US temperatures climbed higher than they have been since.
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Because a greenhouse prevents convective cooling, it doesn't magically heat up the inside by retransmitting radiation.
A very thin glass layer permits this, if science permitted, you could use an impossibly thin piece of glass for the same effect.
CO2 and other byproducts form a similarly thin barrier in the atmosphere preventing some of the heat being radiated outwards.
Most of this additional heat is absorbed by the oceans as is some of the excess CO2 which changes the ph.
The sea can only absorb so much, which is why ice levels/depth are relevant.
This subtle affect is what is driving the now (regular) extreme weather events.
We have detailed recordings from different studies of ice, land and tree cores that shows the varitations of CO2 over quite some time almost all of the increases attributed to industrialisation in modern times.
Very few sceptics deny the relevance of CO2 or the increase thereof, they usually just dispute the cause.
regardless, what do we have to lose by being more efficient, greener and kinder to the environment?
You don't have to go Uber-vegan and start wearing a hemp flightsuit.
Worst case is your grandkids get to breathe clean air and not have their downstairs turning into a swimming pool twice a year.
Fortunately it's all just one big hoax so nothing to see here, move along.
So
This is from the British Geological Society web site. Sure their are deviations from this curve and the average temperature curves due to the buffering of oceans for dissolved gasses and as a thermal sink. That does have its limits. Do any of you sceptics who don't believe humans are contributing to global warming have an explanation for this ( please, other than that thousands of scientists and their data points are lying for some totally unknown compelling conspiracy). If you are unfamiliar with the term "industrial revolution" this may not mean much to you. Even deniers understand that the over production of greenhouse gasses, not to mention other forms of industrial pollution is not good ( the way we farm is a huge one) so why not do what little we can to tone it down? Too bad our collective memories seem to last for about a generation and a half. Of course, the heart of the problem that nobody really talks about is population growth and the reasons behind why nobody thinks that is their problem.
This is from the British Geological Society web site. Sure their are deviations from this curve and the average temperature curves due to the buffering of oceans for dissolved gasses and as a thermal sink. That does have its limits. Do any of you sceptics who don't believe humans are contributing to global warming have an explanation for this ( please, other than that thousands of scientists and their data points are lying for some totally unknown compelling conspiracy). If you are unfamiliar with the term "industrial revolution" this may not mean much to you. Even deniers understand that the over production of greenhouse gasses, not to mention other forms of industrial pollution is not good ( the way we farm is a huge one) so why not do what little we can to tone it down? Too bad our collective memories seem to last for about a generation and a half. Of course, the heart of the problem that nobody really talks about is population growth and the reasons behind why nobody thinks that is their problem.Join Date: Apr 2010
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The planet has been this warm many times before with no human inputs to the climate. Similarly it has been a lot colder. To blame all of climate change on only human activities defies logic.
The air inside is warmed by the sun in the usual manner but is kept inside by the glass barrier, preventing it mixing with outside air which cools.
A very thin glass layer permits this, if science permitted, you could use an impossibly thin piece of glass for the same effect.
CO2 and other byproducts form a similarly thin barrier in the atmosphere preventing some of the heat being radiated outwards.
A very thin glass layer permits this, if science permitted, you could use an impossibly thin piece of glass for the same effect.
CO2 and other byproducts form a similarly thin barrier in the atmosphere preventing some of the heat being radiated outwards.
Now if you said water vapour was responsible for trapping heat when it makes vast layers of reflective cloud then you might have an argument but your CO2 molecules are arranged in a random fashion not in neat layers or a shield or a blanket.
Lets minimise water vapour - we could all stop breathing, that would help but it would be inconvenient.
The oceans contain far more CO2 than the atmosphere and when the temperature of the water rises, more is given off into the atmosphere but the temperature rise is the driver for the CO2 release, not the other way round.
As I have said, I have no argument that we are polluting the planet - of that there is no doubt - but that pollution is a very minimal part of the climate change and the greenhouse argument simply does not hold water - it's a simple argument that seems sort of sensible if you don't look too deeply which is why politicians like it.
aa777888 -
Roscoe1 - if there is direct correlation between fossil fuel burning and atmospheric temperature, why was the earth less than a degree warmer than it is now in 1200 - 1300AD?
So, I'm open to other explanations. Perhaps you can give me other reasons besides " it's been this warm before", which isnt really a reason to begin with. The folks who insist that we are not the primary cause of this round of planetary warming should check out NASA's website where even with the US current administration it spells it out quite clearly. Pay particular attention to the CO2 level versus total solar radiation graph. It really isn't worth discussing because nobody ever really examines the evidence and none of us are capable of developing our own accurate statistics, so nobody changes their mind on issues like this. It's just that the hard science is ignored by one group that makes this debateable. In all honesty, can you point to any climate studies that were put together by reputable universities, or government agencies, that were peer reviewed and published in actual scientific journals? What possible gain is there for the huge percentage of geochemical climate experts to push what you consider to be bogus science. Has there ever been scientific quackery before? Of course there has but on a scale like this? Pehaps it is vaccines that are really causing warming.
When NASA or any other "expert" can show me a mathematical model that fully explains every nuance and detail of the behavior of the Sun and its every effect upon the Earth then perhaps I might listen to this AGW baloney.
Folks....the Human Species has a very long way to go before it can claim with any credibility to accurate understand the Universe we live in.
I look out the window and cannot tell you what the weather shall be tomorrow morning when I hope to be able to go out in the boat to go fishing on the Ocean.
So....you AGW Cultists give up trying to convince me you got it all figured out.
Folks....the Human Species has a very long way to go before it can claim with any credibility to accurate understand the Universe we live in.
I look out the window and cannot tell you what the weather shall be tomorrow morning when I hope to be able to go out in the boat to go fishing on the Ocean.
So....you AGW Cultists give up trying to convince me you got it all figured out.
Understanding Planet Earth is not the same as understanding the universe. We've been studying the oceans and atmosphere for centuries. We put measurement probes adrift in both media. We use remote sensing from space to make incredibly accurate and precise measurements. We can even do regression analysis that lets you plug in as many variables as you wish into the mathmatical model you dismiss because you haven't seen it, that results in numerical proof of the weight each factor carries to get us where we are. The sad part is you want it in a trifold brochure that has bold face bullet points that somehow you think you would understand ( I know I wouldn't) to appear before you say ah ha. The models are, in fact, out there and that is wy 95% of climate experts believe we are pushing this phenomenon. You try to diminish expertise by putting it in quotes. I guess you don't believe in expertise either. Once again, how am I part of a cult and what is my motivation? I know the oil companies and coal industry have a powerful reason to get folks to believe we aren't the cause of global warming. I guess there is also this big university and government agency cult thing, kind of like the deep state, eh.
Understanding Planet Earth is not the same as understanding the universe. We've been studying the oceans and atmosphere for centuries. We put measurement probes adrift in both media.
The IPCC only allows science it approves of and is on message to be published - you can peer review as much as you like but if the data and studies you review are flawed or skewed then you won't get a true result.
The issue of past temperature variations is exactly the point - how can you claim to know what is happening now if you can't explain what happened in the past?
The greenhouse gas argument allows governments to tax more and show how green they are by pushing eco-friendly alternatives - the push to electric cars is a classic, let's rape the earth of rare minerals to make more batteries that we can't re-cycle and forget we have to generate the electricity to put in the batteries in the first place.
All the while the hydrogen fuel cell is sidelined because it isn't fashionable.
Pretending we can cool the planet by going vegan and taking less holidays is the height of futility and is a result of those with other agendas jumping on the AGW bandwagon.
All the while the hydrogen fuel cell is sidelined because it isn't fashionable.
Pretending we can cool the planet by going vegan and taking less holidays is the height of futility and is a result of those with other agendas jumping on the AGW bandwagon.
Ok, you are just flat out wrong if you think we know more about the moon than we do the sea floor. Just because you say that doesn't make it plausable. If the undersea volcanos were heating up the oceans there would be warmer water at depth. The fact is that surface waters warming is accelerating and deep water warming has remained constant. Heat budgets for the oceans are out there published and with what we know about ocean mixing it is true that surface waters are rising at rates not explained by heat exchange from depth.
Roscoe,
The Sun and the Earth are bound together thus to understand the either one must understand the other.
The Earth's Seas are a pretty big and complex bit of water and life forms.
Are you going to try to tell us that Man has these Oceans all figured out....we don't even know what we don't know about the extent of life forms in the oceans.
We probably know more about the surface of the Moon than we do the bottom of the deepest parts of the Earth's Seas.
After all we can ponder the Moon....like last night for instance as it shined so bright and clear.
It is cloudy today and I KNOW the Moon is still out there because of the Tide Levels in front of my house....that can only be estimated because of the Wind Effect from water being pushed or pulled from the Bay. Uneven heating of the Earth causes the Wind....right?
How you you measure that effect?
You just keep thinking Man has it all figured out....see how that works for you.
By the way....where is Al Gore....off enjoying his Millions from Carbon Offsets or something?
I hope he invested well as if he is still ticking.....so is the Earth despite his dire forecasts in the past when he gave us...what was it ....Ten or Twelve Years?
The Sun and the Earth are bound together thus to understand the either one must understand the other.
The Earth's Seas are a pretty big and complex bit of water and life forms.
Are you going to try to tell us that Man has these Oceans all figured out....we don't even know what we don't know about the extent of life forms in the oceans.
We probably know more about the surface of the Moon than we do the bottom of the deepest parts of the Earth's Seas.
After all we can ponder the Moon....like last night for instance as it shined so bright and clear.
It is cloudy today and I KNOW the Moon is still out there because of the Tide Levels in front of my house....that can only be estimated because of the Wind Effect from water being pushed or pulled from the Bay. Uneven heating of the Earth causes the Wind....right?
How you you measure that effect?
You just keep thinking Man has it all figured out....see how that works for you.
By the way....where is Al Gore....off enjoying his Millions from Carbon Offsets or something?
I hope he invested well as if he is still ticking.....so is the Earth despite his dire forecasts in the past when he gave us...what was it ....Ten or Twelve Years?
Nobody said we know all.
Most of the oceans are not the "deepest parts". I might mention I have an MSc. Degree in biological oceanography. I've been on scientific cruises on Canadian CG CGS Hudson multiple times in the North Atlantic. We know a heck of a lot about pelagic life in the oceans, especially in those zones that receieve sunlight. I came to helicopters late in life.
Moon, convective heating, tides, yeah we know a lot about that too. We do a pretty good job of weather forecasting in my book. No earth science is as exact as you are insisting it be.
Where is Al Gore? He has written 4 books since 2006, has an active Facebook page and heads the Climate Reality Project. At his age of 72 I could only hope to be as activist and active. He isn't in your world because you didn't look for him.
10 or 12 years....what is that about and where did it come from? There were climate experts warning us to what is likley to happen 40 years ago. You can't deny the melting ice caps at rates way beyond what people 10 or 12 years ago thought we'd see.
Enjoy the moonlight, it'll be there for thousands of years but the beach front property won't be where it is now.
Most of the oceans are not the "deepest parts". I might mention I have an MSc. Degree in biological oceanography. I've been on scientific cruises on Canadian CG CGS Hudson multiple times in the North Atlantic. We know a heck of a lot about pelagic life in the oceans, especially in those zones that receieve sunlight. I came to helicopters late in life.
Moon, convective heating, tides, yeah we know a lot about that too. We do a pretty good job of weather forecasting in my book. No earth science is as exact as you are insisting it be.
Where is Al Gore? He has written 4 books since 2006, has an active Facebook page and heads the Climate Reality Project. At his age of 72 I could only hope to be as activist and active. He isn't in your world because you didn't look for him.
10 or 12 years....what is that about and where did it come from? There were climate experts warning us to what is likley to happen 40 years ago. You can't deny the melting ice caps at rates way beyond what people 10 or 12 years ago thought we'd see.
Enjoy the moonlight, it'll be there for thousands of years but the beach front property won't be where it is now.
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Don't forget to follow the money, folks. Only politically acceptable research gets money, both public and private. And it's the media that decides what's politically acceptable, not scientists. Not a minor consideration. You'll note we are going through the same sh*t right now in a more acute way with COVID 19, which promises to kill merely a tithe of what H1N1 accounted for in its first year, but where was the media then?
For those who are more conspiratorial you can peel however many layers off that as you wish, but on the surface that's all it takes.
For those who are more conspiratorial you can peel however many layers off that as you wish, but on the surface that's all it takes.
Sad, you assume nobody has a soul or a conscience to go with it. When I was in the sciences I was as apolitical as could be. The science led me to what was worthy.
So now we have woven in the Corona virus outbreak. What you didn't say is that we now have BOTH the run of the mill flu, which basically disappears every spring ( not that that helps the poor folks who die from it every year) AND a new virus that we know next to nothing about in terms of epidimiology because we've not seen it in humans before. Sure, the press shapes what most folks think but we really do not know how this will play out. I say better safe than sorry.
So now we have woven in the Corona virus outbreak. What you didn't say is that we now have BOTH the run of the mill flu, which basically disappears every spring ( not that that helps the poor folks who die from it every year) AND a new virus that we know next to nothing about in terms of epidimiology because we've not seen it in humans before. Sure, the press shapes what most folks think but we really do not know how this will play out. I say better safe than sorry.
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I am making no assumptions. I live, breath and work in that exact environment, although not in the bio or eco-sciences area specifically. I have colleagues that sell their very souls every single day for a dollar.
Thanks Blackdog. Roscoe was actually a much beloved black dog I had a couple of dogs ago. I kind of consider myself a dinosaur in some regards ( I have no Facebook account) but I am not foolish enough to think that that giant meteors don't exist that might hit the earth.
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But.....what if all the world's scientific community is right, and we armchair experts are wrong? By the time anyone can prove that we are frying because of our 3 litre cars rather than sunspots, it just might be too late to do anything about it!
So, those who can ignore Kyoto and the advice of the best-informed on the subject can admire the emperor's new clothes and carry on looking after number one until a possibly? reversible situation has become irredeemable and we are all screwed.
Rant nearly over - I just think its supremely arrogant for people with massive cars, business jets or a hugely polluting economy to think that its perfectly OK to crack on, because its in their personal (short-term) interest to let someone else save the world. Before I invite a massive slagging-off from everyone else, I will just say that 99% of my flying has been in the service of the public, and the fuel I have burned was (mostly) justified.
Thats the blue touch-paper lit, now just getting my flak jacket & helmet on, and crouching under my desk.....incoming!!
So, those who can ignore Kyoto and the advice of the best-informed on the subject can admire the emperor's new clothes and carry on looking after number one until a possibly? reversible situation has become irredeemable and we are all screwed.
Rant nearly over - I just think its supremely arrogant for people with massive cars, business jets or a hugely polluting economy to think that its perfectly OK to crack on, because its in their personal (short-term) interest to let someone else save the world. Before I invite a massive slagging-off from everyone else, I will just say that 99% of my flying has been in the service of the public, and the fuel I have burned was (mostly) justified.
Thats the blue touch-paper lit, now just getting my flak jacket & helmet on, and crouching under my desk.....incoming!!