R44 Safety Alert - Avoid Flying Out of Trim
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Surprise, surprise, what you cant fly side ways for a photo shoot anymore in a Robbie? The Robinson helicopter is the dodgiest bucket of puss or should I say death trap machine ever built. Its the helicopter that has killed more pilots than any other machine on the planet, some blades delaminate even in the box prior to installation, sad & very scary. Many young (time wise) pilots blindly worship them as if they were the best thing since a trusty ole' Jetbox, sadly though the wrecks of machines & wrecked families lives paint a different story. Ask on honest L.A.M.E. who has worked on a variety of machines for a few years for their appraisal of a Robinson. If we all got together boycotted flying these rickety hazardous contraptions, maybe, just maybe Mr Robinson may build something descant.
I'm kind of on the fence about the whole 'Robinson bashing' thing. Aircraft treated with a bit of respect should be relatively safe but there are always going to be problems during production. This isn't a perfect world we live in. Normal aircraft surely shouldn't be flown out of trim. Unless the instructors I flew with over the years, (and myself when trying to instruct) were all wasting breath telling me to 'get my feet working'!
Many of us 'professional pilots' wouldn't be where we are today if it wasn't for the Robinsons. A lot of us weren't born with silver spoons in our mouth, endless funding to fly B206's etc for training.
Many of us weren't in a position to fly in the army/Navy/Air Force etc
Yes R22/44 have some problems but to keep saying they are dangerous isn't really fair. IMHO. Would I want to fly one again now i've moved onto bigger and better things? No thanks.
Many of us 'professional pilots' wouldn't be where we are today if it wasn't for the Robinsons. A lot of us weren't born with silver spoons in our mouth, endless funding to fly B206's etc for training.
Many of us weren't in a position to fly in the army/Navy/Air Force etc
Yes R22/44 have some problems but to keep saying they are dangerous isn't really fair. IMHO. Would I want to fly one again now i've moved onto bigger and better things? No thanks.
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My experience is that if you fly out of the envelope in most machines, bad things happen.
Also, the alert is clear, hides nothing and is quite easy to understand. I think it is good for the manufacturer to stand up and make notice so clearly.
Having written my share of such notices for another manufacturer, I think Robinson is to be commended.
Also, the alert is clear, hides nothing and is quite easy to understand. I think it is good for the manufacturer to stand up and make notice so clearly.
Having written my share of such notices for another manufacturer, I think Robinson is to be commended.
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tin spoon more likely
Helimutt,
I certainly didn't have a silver spoon in my mouth...I just had to work hard and pass the military entrance requirements, and commit to years of interesting, but tough flying.
Come to think of it, I didn't work with any silver spoon types in the military...if you stuffed up in training, you got the arse...no argument... whereas in civvy street, `daddy's money' could keep paying for the training until you eventually passed, I guess. More silver spoon guys out there!
I know that a lot of guys have come through the school of hard knocks, mustering, bush stuff etc, but don't knock the military guys...they earn every hour they get....
Happy landings...
I certainly didn't have a silver spoon in my mouth...I just had to work hard and pass the military entrance requirements, and commit to years of interesting, but tough flying.
Come to think of it, I didn't work with any silver spoon types in the military...if you stuffed up in training, you got the arse...no argument... whereas in civvy street, `daddy's money' could keep paying for the training until you eventually passed, I guess. More silver spoon guys out there!
I know that a lot of guys have come through the school of hard knocks, mustering, bush stuff etc, but don't knock the military guys...they earn every hour they get....
Happy landings...
Delta Torque, please don't misunderstand me. I meant that there are many paths to getting to professional level. The ones I mention are either paying for it yourself. ( daddy helping you out). ie silver spoon.
OR
Joining the armed forces.
Don't confuse the issue.
I fly with ex-mil guys and wish i'd had the chance to fly heli's in the Mil.
Basically the R22/44 brigade, (myself included) use this route because of it's cost effectiveness when compared to other aircraft for training. Probably why the majority of schools use this type too. I didn't even have a pot to p*ss in never mind a silver (or tin) spoon.
800hrs in Robbos is enough for me though, but I did enjoy flying them at the time because I knew no better.
Only thing now is, Nick L has a lot to answer for. LOL. Just joking Nick.
OR
Joining the armed forces.
Don't confuse the issue.
I fly with ex-mil guys and wish i'd had the chance to fly heli's in the Mil.
Basically the R22/44 brigade, (myself included) use this route because of it's cost effectiveness when compared to other aircraft for training. Probably why the majority of schools use this type too. I didn't even have a pot to p*ss in never mind a silver (or tin) spoon.
800hrs in Robbos is enough for me though, but I did enjoy flying them at the time because I knew no better.
Only thing now is, Nick L has a lot to answer for. LOL. Just joking Nick.
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Just what I've been saying for years...R22????, R44!!!! but getting better.
One has to remember that these helicopters were originally designed as a peoples helicopter(VW of the air) and not as a roughy toughy work horse.
One has to remember that these helicopters were originally designed as a peoples helicopter(VW of the air) and not as a roughy toughy work horse.
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Classic, it's like 'wind it up, watch it go', when it comes to Rotors 88 and Robbo's
17 posts, and 3 of them have been slagging off Robinsons big time, with a few of the rest exibiting a distinctly bad tempered, 'what you looking at!?' colour about them. Get over it mate, seriously. Did a Robbo pilot nick your G/F or something?
Either that or try the other side of the bed, maybe an hour later? When a full 17% of your posts are about slagging of a product, you know it's time to seek help. Top entertainment the Rotors fella
Nick is spot on about that report, nothing covered up, nothing to hide. The helicopter isn't perfect (what is?) but it does the job for many of us, and your average '22 and '44 gets a far bigger kicking on a daily basis than those hangar queens from the '60s and 70's so beloved by some, and it still comes back for more.
'Fly it right, and it doesn't bite' was drummed into me. Seems okay so far.
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rotors88. you're a blues supporter, right. Get over it mate they're in the wash for a fair while.
On the subject of AD's, SB's etc, I suppose you would care to claim that no other production machine has ever had them?? Ask an honest LAME how many most of the other light helicopter types have had, surprise surprise.
I'll let you tell the honest story right here in fairy land for all to see.
Post soon the list grows.
One has to be very careful with these statements.
Remember Mr. Frank is a very intelligent person. By dent of his acheivements he has proven that beyond doubt, also he has proven his capacity in observation and his meticulous attention to detail.
His past experiences on that 'other' type may, just may, have alluded to him just what the R22 was going to do in the ordinary world when it went to production.
This is all quite apart from what other light types were doing in the way of "roughy toughy work" right outside the Burbank front door (like mustering, spraying etc) while he was tinkerimg away on his dream.
Grow up Head Turner, are you trying to tell us that Mr. Frank is so damm deficient of intelligence and observation that he never noticed all of that "roughy toughy" work out there for him to capture with his brand new production idea? NTM the insurance package that was offerd with it.
Don't treat us like dills sport.
tet
On the subject of AD's, SB's etc, I suppose you would care to claim that no other production machine has ever had them?? Ask an honest LAME how many most of the other light helicopter types have had, surprise surprise.
I'll let you tell the honest story right here in fairy land for all to see.
Post soon the list grows.
One has to remember that these helicopters were originally designed as a peoples helicopter(VW of the air) and not as a roughy toughy work horse.
Remember Mr. Frank is a very intelligent person. By dent of his acheivements he has proven that beyond doubt, also he has proven his capacity in observation and his meticulous attention to detail.
His past experiences on that 'other' type may, just may, have alluded to him just what the R22 was going to do in the ordinary world when it went to production.
This is all quite apart from what other light types were doing in the way of "roughy toughy work" right outside the Burbank front door (like mustering, spraying etc) while he was tinkerimg away on his dream.
Grow up Head Turner, are you trying to tell us that Mr. Frank is so damm deficient of intelligence and observation that he never noticed all of that "roughy toughy" work out there for him to capture with his brand new production idea? NTM the insurance package that was offerd with it.
Don't treat us like dills sport.
tet
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Hi all,
a) If you have no time in an aircraft you should only inquire not bash or push. No experience - so what are you talking about?
b) You always will only hear the bad and the ugly - any machine...
c) So let me open my mouth a little:
about 900 hrs R-22 and around 5000hrs R-44
This incident doesn't really mean a lot unless it is definitely from off axis-trim.
I have a lot of time flying sideways, call the angle - I did it, from 0 kts to 45 kts - never any problem. Rest of the time is in trim and it is very easy to maintain trim in a R.
Had anual checks for other pilots, that fly dog/crab style all day long, actually all their live long! ...and so bad it "hurts"
2 of them on R-44 for 1000's of hours.
The incident is nothing but a reason to guard against liability - no argument.
Same as FR does not authorize any STC for the R-44. It still is an excellent External load machine, good at fumigation, etc.
Show me any other helo with which you can do full-touch down auto's to water on a regular bases, run them on solid ground without wasting the skids in an instant.
One does a preflight for a reason. In my close to 6K hours in the brand, I saw some very worn TR-blades, sometimes badly balanced (after 400 to 500 hrs of use on boats), but never found any sign of a crack.
Maybe a bad run of blades ....
As it is, today everything is prohibited, that is not expressly allowed/authorized in the POH.
It used to be pilot's common sense and experience unless prohibited in the POH.
Those of you that have done more than VIP flying from one certified place to another know that helicopters (all of them) can do a lot more than decribed in the POH, if the pilot can and does it with prudence.
You don't like the brand, get over it.
It is easy to have a high accident rate, if everyone can afford the machine, even if those who shouldn't even drive a stroller.
Same goes for flight training - metal get's bent in training.
I am in bigger machines now, but I fly a (well maintained) R-brand anytime.
3top
a) If you have no time in an aircraft you should only inquire not bash or push. No experience - so what are you talking about?
b) You always will only hear the bad and the ugly - any machine...
c) So let me open my mouth a little:
about 900 hrs R-22 and around 5000hrs R-44
This incident doesn't really mean a lot unless it is definitely from off axis-trim.
I have a lot of time flying sideways, call the angle - I did it, from 0 kts to 45 kts - never any problem. Rest of the time is in trim and it is very easy to maintain trim in a R.
Had anual checks for other pilots, that fly dog/crab style all day long, actually all their live long! ...and so bad it "hurts"
2 of them on R-44 for 1000's of hours.The incident is nothing but a reason to guard against liability - no argument.
Same as FR does not authorize any STC for the R-44. It still is an excellent External load machine, good at fumigation, etc.
Show me any other helo with which you can do full-touch down auto's to water on a regular bases, run them on solid ground without wasting the skids in an instant.
One does a preflight for a reason. In my close to 6K hours in the brand, I saw some very worn TR-blades, sometimes badly balanced (after 400 to 500 hrs of use on boats), but never found any sign of a crack.
Maybe a bad run of blades ....
As it is, today everything is prohibited, that is not expressly allowed/authorized in the POH.
It used to be pilot's common sense and experience unless prohibited in the POH.
Those of you that have done more than VIP flying from one certified place to another know that helicopters (all of them) can do a lot more than decribed in the POH, if the pilot can and does it with prudence.
You don't like the brand, get over it.
It is easy to have a high accident rate, if everyone can afford the machine, even if those who shouldn't even drive a stroller.
Same goes for flight training - metal get's bent in training.
I am in bigger machines now, but I fly a (well maintained) R-brand anytime.
3top
Last edited by 3top; 14th Jun 2007 at 02:13.
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Robbie blades, the other ones this time
Maybe a bad run of blades ....
Hmm, where have we heard that one before????????????
Simple quality control in the factory, once again Frank, put some of those $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ back into quality control rather than hiring lawyers to write safety alerts in order avoid litigation.
QLD maroons, back to back origin champs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hmm, where have we heard that one before????????????
Simple quality control in the factory, once again Frank, put some of those $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ back into quality control rather than hiring lawyers to write safety alerts in order avoid litigation.
QLD maroons, back to back origin champs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
