EC130 Corner
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EC130 Corner
Had a good look at the new EC-130 yesterday here at Heli Expo. Looks like a Gazellle on steroids from the back and a Schweizer 333 from the front. From all accounts flies very nicely and will be a positive addition to the US and Canadian tour market. Time will tell but it does look nice.
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It looks nice from the side and behind but agreed it doesnt look too crash hot from the front, as said before reminds me of the Schweizer 333.
It is supposed to be the latest in the AS-350 series so I suppose it could technically be called the B4 or as some call it the Allouette IV.
It is supposed to be the latest in the AS-350 series so I suppose it could technically be called the B4 or as some call it the Allouette IV.
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have to say i thought it looked good but im not convinced about the seating arangments for the pilots , better than the 333 though, what do you call the controls when theres three sets of them , 3 cyclics ,3 collectivs and 6 pedals , not duals.
'you have control , were you talking to me?'
'you have control , were you talking to me?'
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Without noticing the step protruding out in front on the pic, (don't know whethe it does on the real bird, will have to look) I first noticed the unique skid design.
Interesting eh? Tying it into the wire strike category, using that design would now half your chances only leaving the area between fuse and rotor, unless that step does protrude as pictured ....
I agree on the nose looks though, the 120 looks better to me.
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Marc
Interesting eh? Tying it into the wire strike category, using that design would now half your chances only leaving the area between fuse and rotor, unless that step does protrude as pictured ....
I agree on the nose looks though, the 120 looks better to me.
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Marc
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http://www.bluehawaiian.com/tour_det...p?tgid=3&tid=8
They are charging an extra 35 US for a 45 min flight .
Based on purchase cost I would expect commercial rates similar to a Koala or Bell 407 , maybe 15% above b2/B3 rates. Of course it depends how much the customer is willing to pay for an extra seat and the type of work.
just read more of the page . seems they are not using the 8 place config ( can any one confirm this ) premium is just for lower noise more comfort and better view.
They are charging an extra 35 US for a 45 min flight .
Based on purchase cost I would expect commercial rates similar to a Koala or Bell 407 , maybe 15% above b2/B3 rates. Of course it depends how much the customer is willing to pay for an extra seat and the type of work.
just read more of the page . seems they are not using the 8 place config ( can any one confirm this ) premium is just for lower noise more comfort and better view.
EC130 CHARTER RATES
Charter rates in ireland for the EC130 are roughly 1700euro/hr, you can contact www.linkshelicopters.com..............hope this helps.
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EC130 FADEC Failures
Understanding that the Eurocopter EC130 has a dual channel FADEC, what are the requirements following a failure scenario?
For instance:
1. Channel 1 Fails - Do I ...
a. "Land as Soon as Possible"
b. "Land as Soon as Practical"?
2. Channel 2 Fails - Do I ...
a. "Land as Soon as Possible"
b. "Land as Soon as Practical"
c. Does control revert to manual?
d. Do I ride this screaming beast to earth?
Thanks in advance for the info!
For instance:
1. Channel 1 Fails - Do I ...
a. "Land as Soon as Possible"
b. "Land as Soon as Practical"?
2. Channel 2 Fails - Do I ...
a. "Land as Soon as Possible"
b. "Land as Soon as Practical"
c. Does control revert to manual?
d. Do I ride this screaming beast to earth?
Thanks in advance for the info!
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In the unlikely event that both channels failed the metering valve will freeze in the position it was in when the both FADECS agreed there was a failure. The system then reverts to a third buck-up system, the EBCAU which operates independantly from the two FADECs. The back-up system is set to give you aprox 102% NR and will get you to where you can land with no problems but you are supposed to avoid abrupt manoeuvres.
There is no manual connection between the twistgrip and the engine as this is a true FADEC. The twistgrip rotation simply triggers the TWT GRP warning light, then it contacts the idle speed microswitch commanding the 67% idle.
WRL
There is no manual connection between the twistgrip and the engine as this is a true FADEC. The twistgrip rotation simply triggers the TWT GRP warning light, then it contacts the idle speed microswitch commanding the 67% idle.
WRL
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The EC130B4 is, as stated before a true FADEC controlled engine, which also has a third electrical back up system (EBCAU or emergency back up control ancillary unit) provided by Europcopter. In the event that one channel of the FADEC would fail, the system would switch to the other channel and continue to fly WITH NO INDICATION TO THE PILOT AT THAT TIME!. This event would be considered a loss of redundancy since we have a second channel to continue to control the engine. Upon shut down in this case you would get a flashing amber GOV light which would indicate you had, in the last flight, a loss of redundancy and maintenance is required.
If for some reason you were to lose both channels of the FADEC system you would imediately get a red and an amber GOV light which indicates the FADEC is now out of the loop and the EBCAU system is activated. The EBCAU system is linked to the N2C sensor and it's sole purpose in life is to meter fuel flow to acheive and maintain 100% N2 speed (this may equate to 102Nr as previously posted). The EBCAU system is said to be very responsive but may slightly lag behind collective inputs so be cautious when flying in this mode.
The other thing to be aware of here is that the EC130 normally has a variable rotor RPM system in place for lowering noise levels. If at the time of this hypothetical dual channel FADEC failure you happen to be at a higher rotor rpm (I think 104% is the max) then you would get a red and amber light and the engine and rotor system would decelerate to achieve 100%N2 as commanded by the EBCAU. Normally this situation would prompt a pilot to react by lowering the collective (a normal response to red lights and decelerating engine/rotor) which in this case can cause an overspeed! Remember if you get the red AND the amber GOV lights it is an indication the the EBCAU is active and not abnormal for the engine and rotor to decelerate. Obviously I wouldn't let things get too far before I did something but keep it in the back of your mind.
In the worst case scenario if both FADEC channels as well as the EBCAU all failed you would be stuck with a fixed fuel flow as the metering needle would be frozen. The course of action at this point would depend on the power setting you were stuck with but you get the picture.
Truth be told there have been very few cases of dual channel FADEC failures that I am aware of. Hopefully this little lesson will help you make it home to change parts instead of changing pants if it happens to you!
Hope it helps
Max
If for some reason you were to lose both channels of the FADEC system you would imediately get a red and an amber GOV light which indicates the FADEC is now out of the loop and the EBCAU system is activated. The EBCAU system is linked to the N2C sensor and it's sole purpose in life is to meter fuel flow to acheive and maintain 100% N2 speed (this may equate to 102Nr as previously posted). The EBCAU system is said to be very responsive but may slightly lag behind collective inputs so be cautious when flying in this mode.
The other thing to be aware of here is that the EC130 normally has a variable rotor RPM system in place for lowering noise levels. If at the time of this hypothetical dual channel FADEC failure you happen to be at a higher rotor rpm (I think 104% is the max) then you would get a red and amber light and the engine and rotor system would decelerate to achieve 100%N2 as commanded by the EBCAU. Normally this situation would prompt a pilot to react by lowering the collective (a normal response to red lights and decelerating engine/rotor) which in this case can cause an overspeed! Remember if you get the red AND the amber GOV lights it is an indication the the EBCAU is active and not abnormal for the engine and rotor to decelerate. Obviously I wouldn't let things get too far before I did something but keep it in the back of your mind.
In the worst case scenario if both FADEC channels as well as the EBCAU all failed you would be stuck with a fixed fuel flow as the metering needle would be frozen. The course of action at this point would depend on the power setting you were stuck with but you get the picture.
Truth be told there have been very few cases of dual channel FADEC failures that I am aware of. Hopefully this little lesson will help you make it home to change parts instead of changing pants if it happens to you!
Hope it helps
Max
I know I get diarreah of the mouth sometimes....it seems to have now spread to my typing fingers! lol
Maxtork, obviously no doubting what you have said as I'm not a 130 pilot, but would not the flashing GOV caption be an indication of loss of redundency to one or both channels and a steady GOV be a warning of a total (single) channel failure? Why would you have a steady GOV caption as well as the RED one, otherwise? Does it (the steady GOV caption) come on when a loss of input results in retrieval laws being used?
Also, does the back up mode operate automatically or is there a Normal/Backup switch somewhere?
Just applying 155 logic to see how they compare, not disputing your knowledge!
Also, does the back up mode operate automatically or is there a Normal/Backup switch somewhere?
Just applying 155 logic to see how they compare, not disputing your knowledge!
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212man
I agree with what you are saying. I would expect that the total loss of one channel would need some sort of indication to the pilot even though it is in essence a loss of redundancy but I found out the hard way that is not the case. If channel A which is the primary fails there is no indication to the pilot as he/she still has a totally functional FADEC control system on channel B so there is no cockpit indication. I have actually asked that this be changed but I am far enough down the food chain not to make a difference just yet. So the indications and there purpose are:
Flashing amber after shutdown (N1<20%) = loss of redundancy
Steady amber during flight= loss of a signal which has no back up in which case we switch to a back up law (mathematical formula that gets us close). The FADEC continues to control the engine but since we are using a back up law the engine may not perform quite as well as normal but is still under automatic control.
Red Gov light anytime during flight= metering valve is frozen and no further fuel flow changes made by the FADEC system. On the EC130 since we have the EBCAU system, the output from the FADEC comuter that turns on the Red gov light also goes to the EBCAU to activate it which turns on the Amber GOV light. With this in mind if the system is working properly you should never get a red GOV light without the amber as this would mean the FADEC is not controling the engine nor is the EBCAU!!
I don't work with the EC155 much so I dont remember if it has a dual channel or single channel system (I know the EC155B has the dual channel Arriel 2C2 engine but not sure about the 2C1 powered aircraft). This could be where the difference comes into play. If you would like I can check to see if this same caution warning display methodology applies to the 155's as well. Turbomeca is pretty good about using the same ideas for all their systems but those little changes and assumtions are the ones that bite you!
Max
I agree with what you are saying. I would expect that the total loss of one channel would need some sort of indication to the pilot even though it is in essence a loss of redundancy but I found out the hard way that is not the case. If channel A which is the primary fails there is no indication to the pilot as he/she still has a totally functional FADEC control system on channel B so there is no cockpit indication. I have actually asked that this be changed but I am far enough down the food chain not to make a difference just yet. So the indications and there purpose are:
Flashing amber after shutdown (N1<20%) = loss of redundancy
Steady amber during flight= loss of a signal which has no back up in which case we switch to a back up law (mathematical formula that gets us close). The FADEC continues to control the engine but since we are using a back up law the engine may not perform quite as well as normal but is still under automatic control.
Red Gov light anytime during flight= metering valve is frozen and no further fuel flow changes made by the FADEC system. On the EC130 since we have the EBCAU system, the output from the FADEC comuter that turns on the Red gov light also goes to the EBCAU to activate it which turns on the Amber GOV light. With this in mind if the system is working properly you should never get a red GOV light without the amber as this would mean the FADEC is not controling the engine nor is the EBCAU!!
I don't work with the EC155 much so I dont remember if it has a dual channel or single channel system (I know the EC155B has the dual channel Arriel 2C2 engine but not sure about the 2C1 powered aircraft). This could be where the difference comes into play. If you would like I can check to see if this same caution warning display methodology applies to the 155's as well. Turbomeca is pretty good about using the same ideas for all their systems but those little changes and assumtions are the ones that bite you!
Max
