Helicopter missing after Chelsea v Liverpool match
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Thomas Coupling, you should know better if you've flown this machine. It was NOT a full IFR aircraft and never has been. It had a decent stab, but did not have the Monitor function on the Autopilot. It was therefore cleared for NIGHT but not CAT IFR. None of which, I suspect, had the slightest bearing on the accident.
MBJ, you're quite right. We never used the higher functions but I couldn't for the life of me remember why the other day! It was 8 yrs ago. And there was no intent to cast doubt over the IFR / IR aspect of the flight either, just commenting. I have my own personal views as to why this a/c crashed and I'll reserve those until the AAIB reports.
C'mon guys show some respect here for the pilot and his experience,the late one's, their families and stop speculating about why this tragic accident occured.
We dont know if not some media are monitoring forums like this one here just to help them to speculate and make up stories, we should not be helping them with it
Many of you are jumping on the weather factor as a possible reason, but according to the pilots experience this probably not his first time flying in poor weather. Let's just wait for the AAIB report
My condolences to the families
We dont know if not some media are monitoring forums like this one here just to help them to speculate and make up stories, we should not be helping them with it
Many of you are jumping on the weather factor as a possible reason, but according to the pilots experience this probably not his first time flying in poor weather. Let's just wait for the AAIB report
My condolences to the families
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Let us learn from this
It is always a sad occasion when a member of our fraternity dies in an accident and especially in a situation for which the reason is not clearly apparent. If the pilot had the reputation of being a limit pusher, many would talk behind closed doors and perhaps even suggest that it was bound to happen. In this examle though, Steve was obviously a well respected and popluar pilot. In both cases though there are always lessons for us to learn/relearn. With such a loss of life as in this tragic accident, I am sure that the families would want nothing else for the future than for it not to be repeated. The disscussion on weather minima, aircraft equipment, commercial pressures and training/licencing standards is surely healthy and helpful to those of us who fly and operate these sometimes unforgiving aircraft. Condolences to the familes.
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Quote "The discussion on weather minima, aircraft equipment, commercial pressures and training/licencing standards is surely healthy and helpful to those of us who fly and operate these sometimes unforgiving aircraft."
Maybe, but at a time in the future, once the shock has settled and the "if only" questions have passed,maybe once steve`s funeral has been and gone, maybe when someone closest to steve and his family (you know who you are) have posted on here, but not right now
Maybe, but at a time in the future, once the shock has settled and the "if only" questions have passed,maybe once steve`s funeral has been and gone, maybe when someone closest to steve and his family (you know who you are) have posted on here, but not right now
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A sad day, Judith and Philip were a very nice couple with lovely children. As a neighbor it is a bit of a shock for all around here. The loss of father and son must be truly devastating. I did not know the pilot or the other passenger but I feel for the families of them.
A couple of facts: We heard a helicopter go over the top of us at the time of the accident, I assumed it was mil or police and went out to look. The weather was appalling, thick fog and overcast around a couple of hundred feet. My drive is approximately 200m long and then end of it was in mist.
This is approximately 3 miles from the accident site and about the same from Phillips house. The fog came down very quickly from a clear sky at 10pm to solid fog at midnight.
The RAF Wittering weather station gives only METAR not TAF.
A couple of facts: We heard a helicopter go over the top of us at the time of the accident, I assumed it was mil or police and went out to look. The weather was appalling, thick fog and overcast around a couple of hundred feet. My drive is approximately 200m long and then end of it was in mist.
This is approximately 3 miles from the accident site and about the same from Phillips house. The fog came down very quickly from a clear sky at 10pm to solid fog at midnight.
The RAF Wittering weather station gives only METAR not TAF.
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B73, well said. I'm pretty sure that one thing we would all agree on is that most pilots don't willingly launch into the ether intent on killing themselves. The AAIB will undoubtedly come-up with a view on the chain of events that will be far better informed than anything we can speculate.
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Letsby,
You saying it definitely was
I hope all those so eager to add speculation and blame so early into an investigation are equally as quick to apologise publicly IF the AAIB draw a different conclusion.
Well said Bravo73
Thecontroller it's always great to read the wisdom of those not in the know, passing on so little to those looking to learn.
You saying it definitely was
I hope all those so eager to add speculation and blame so early into an investigation are equally as quick to apologise publicly IF the AAIB draw a different conclusion.
Well said Bravo73
Thecontroller it's always great to read the wisdom of those not in the know, passing on so little to those looking to learn.
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What was it that the controller said that was so bad?!? Absolutely, this is a sad accident for all involved but why can't he make a generic observation that -in and of itself- is perfectly valid. By 'no IR' I take it he means either that this aircraft was not certified for IFR or maybe he's making a more general point about trends in aircraft accidents, I don't know. B73, was this aircraft IFR certified? Was it on an IFR flight plan? These are valid questions that the AAIB will have and there's no reason that we shouldn't be asking ourselves these same questions.
Sadly, the combination of night flight and marginal weather continues to claim the lives of novices and experienced SPIFR pilots alike. It's arguably the biggest safety problem we face in our industry. Of course, this accident may prove to have a completely different, mechanical, root cause. But let's face it, weather was a factor even if that turns out to be the case. Surely we can be respectful to those affected while at the same time confront some of the issues that may have played a role in this crash.
This is after all a Rumor Network and we are after all supposed to benefit from the free flow of ideas between ourselves. Let's ask the hard questions.
Sadly, the combination of night flight and marginal weather continues to claim the lives of novices and experienced SPIFR pilots alike. It's arguably the biggest safety problem we face in our industry. Of course, this accident may prove to have a completely different, mechanical, root cause. But let's face it, weather was a factor even if that turns out to be the case. Surely we can be respectful to those affected while at the same time confront some of the issues that may have played a role in this crash.
This is after all a Rumor Network and we are after all supposed to benefit from the free flow of ideas between ourselves. Let's ask the hard questions.
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There is with no doubt a time and place to ask these 'hard' questions as you say. Just as there is a time to pay respect to people's loss.
There is no doubt that this is a rumour netowrk agreed, rumours can be aired and shared obviously, but at a time such as this some professional honour to those that are no longer with us should be more prudent.
You can ask all the hard questions you like, but as colonel mustard said when the facts are out and those that are closest (if they chose too...) have spoken, Steve Holdich's funeral has passed. The AAIB report is out then, but as B73 if you have nothing to add, and can only speculate, please find a better use for your time.
There is no doubt that this is a rumour netowrk agreed, rumours can be aired and shared obviously, but at a time such as this some professional honour to those that are no longer with us should be more prudent.
You can ask all the hard questions you like, but as colonel mustard said when the facts are out and those that are closest (if they chose too...) have spoken, Steve Holdich's funeral has passed. The AAIB report is out then, but as B73 if you have nothing to add, and can only speculate, please find a better use for your time.
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Thecontroller you're not getting shot down.
Steve was a well liked, highly professional pilot and there is a clear sense of shock amongst a selection of his peers.
If you are not speculating about this incident how do you see a common link?
Journo's use this site, lets not give them ammunition.
IFR flying is tough at times, SPIFR even more so. Your generalisation will do little to offer any reassurance to this industry (both passengers and progressing pilots). I meet plenty of people that generalise about R22's being unsafe, based purely on statistics, yet they have never flown an R22.
Perhaps your viewpoint and timing would be different if you had known Steve, and if you held an IR.
Steve was a well liked, highly professional pilot and there is a clear sense of shock amongst a selection of his peers.
If you are not speculating about this incident how do you see a common link?
Journo's use this site, lets not give them ammunition.
IFR flying is tough at times, SPIFR even more so. Your generalisation will do little to offer any reassurance to this industry (both passengers and progressing pilots). I meet plenty of people that generalise about R22's being unsafe, based purely on statistics, yet they have never flown an R22.
Perhaps your viewpoint and timing would be different if you had known Steve, and if you held an IR.
Controller - I am with you - whilst it is desperately sad that another pilot has lost his life along with his passengers (and I send my sincerest condolences to their relatives and friends), this was, in all probability, a very avoidable accident. If it turns out to be mechanical failure then it still won't bring them back but the combination of deteriorating weather and a night approach to a field location are the most likely culprits.
Better that Steve's death promotes some sensible discussion into the causes of the crash rather than just prompting trite postings of 'I have slipped the surly bonds etc'
Better that Steve's death promotes some sensible discussion into the causes of the crash rather than just prompting trite postings of 'I have slipped the surly bonds etc'
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whilst it is desperately sad that another pilot has lost his life along with his passengers (and I send my sincerest condolences to their relatives and friends), this was, in all probability, a very avoidable accident.
The pilot's relatives and friends are gonna feel real good reading you saying the pilot in all probability caused the accident, or maybe you weren;t sparing a thought for their feelings. It's a shame some folks cant wait a decent time. The poor man aint cold yet and the vultures here are picking at his bones.
Last edited by Bronx; 6th May 2007 at 14:11.
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To Brilliant Stuff (and others who share the same view):
I can't justify closing the thread. I thought about it when Flingingwings asked in post #50.
IMHO speculation about the cause of the accident would have been better left to another time, but there are always two camps about that. Personally, I'm a 'Wait for the Accident Report' man, but I don't think I'm entitled to impose my personal view on others.
Stephen Holdich (49) was the co-owner of Atlas Helicopters, Lee-on-Solent.
Mike Burns, co-founder and ops director of Atlas, said:
Heliport
I can't justify closing the thread. I thought about it when Flingingwings asked in post #50.
IMHO speculation about the cause of the accident would have been better left to another time, but there are always two camps about that. Personally, I'm a 'Wait for the Accident Report' man, but I don't think I'm entitled to impose my personal view on others.
Stephen Holdich (49) was the co-owner of Atlas Helicopters, Lee-on-Solent.
Mike Burns, co-founder and ops director of Atlas, said:
"Stephen was a hugely experienced and widely respected aviation professional with many years of successful flying under his belt.
His family, friends and colleagues are devastated by the tragedy."
I only hope Steve's grieving family don't look at Rotorheads while trying to come to terms with their loss.Heliport
