Wild deer recovery (video)
Ahhh - now there are some picture from the past.
The New Zealand deer wars of the 1970s...
See:
Deer Wars - Television | NZ On Screen
Two part doco - 18 mins each, but worth the watch for those of you in Northern Latitudes who may not be aware of the story.
Some legendary NZ rotary wing pilots featured; Bill Black, Tim Wallace etc. and also rare early footage of Hillers and 300s used for shooting.
From another site:
"At the peak of venison recovery in 1973, exports reached 3,500 tonnes from about 140,000 carcasses. At one stage there were 50 helicopters competing for deer in the southern South Island. Many adopted illegal and often dangerous tactics. Two RNZAF Iroquois helicopters were sent to the region to try to prevent poaching of deer from Fiordland and private properties..."
80 private pilots or hunters died in total.
...the tall tale was that certain D and C-model pilots could hear the RNZAF UH-1H's on their way, and were long gone by the time they arrived - 50 foot of blade slap versus 26 foot of LOACH rotor.
There's probably a feature film script in those stories somewhere...
The New Zealand deer wars of the 1970s...
See:
Deer Wars - Television | NZ On Screen
Two part doco - 18 mins each, but worth the watch for those of you in Northern Latitudes who may not be aware of the story.
Some legendary NZ rotary wing pilots featured; Bill Black, Tim Wallace etc. and also rare early footage of Hillers and 300s used for shooting.
From another site:
"At the peak of venison recovery in 1973, exports reached 3,500 tonnes from about 140,000 carcasses. At one stage there were 50 helicopters competing for deer in the southern South Island. Many adopted illegal and often dangerous tactics. Two RNZAF Iroquois helicopters were sent to the region to try to prevent poaching of deer from Fiordland and private properties..."
80 private pilots or hunters died in total.
...the tall tale was that certain D and C-model pilots could hear the RNZAF UH-1H's on their way, and were long gone by the time they arrived - 50 foot of blade slap versus 26 foot of LOACH rotor.
There's probably a feature film script in those stories somewhere...
Last edited by Senior Pilot; 17th Dec 2012 at 22:56. Reason: Added YouTube vid
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Agaricus - Actually these guys weren't idiots - they were and are some of the best pilots around, and no they aren't dead, they are actually still alive and flying.
Armin Egli who was flying one of the D models now flies for ARHT (Westpac Rescue Heli) in Auckland and Steve Podjursky I think is flying for either Erickson on the Crane or Columbia. Dennis Mulooly I am not sure about.
Its just the way flying was back in those days same as a lot of the flying that was done in Vietnam etc or or are they all idiots to you as well.
Either way it is what it is.
Armin Egli who was flying one of the D models now flies for ARHT (Westpac Rescue Heli) in Auckland and Steve Podjursky I think is flying for either Erickson on the Crane or Columbia. Dennis Mulooly I am not sure about.
Its just the way flying was back in those days same as a lot of the flying that was done in Vietnam etc or or are they all idiots to you as well.
Either way it is what it is.
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CH, I guess you don't live in the real world. Anyone who puts his rotorblades into trees like that is an idiot. End of. That is foolhardiness and irresponsibility beyond belief.
You'll notice, if you take the time to read what I wrote, that I made no mention of his ability at poling the aircraft so please don't point that accusation at me - you made it up in your head. It is his judgement and sanity I was referring to, oddly enough.
How can he know there isn't a solid stump buried in that greenery? He can't. How can he know how much punishment those blades can take? He can't.
Your comparison with Vietnam is just plain offensive and shows what an idiot you are. No one was being shot at in NZ.
Just my opinion, of course.
You'll notice, if you take the time to read what I wrote, that I made no mention of his ability at poling the aircraft so please don't point that accusation at me - you made it up in your head. It is his judgement and sanity I was referring to, oddly enough.
How can he know there isn't a solid stump buried in that greenery? He can't. How can he know how much punishment those blades can take? He can't.
Your comparison with Vietnam is just plain offensive and shows what an idiot you are. No one was being shot at in NZ.
Just my opinion, of course.
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Actually Agaricus you don't differentiate between his flying abilities and what we was doing - you just called him an idiot.
You seem to like throwing insults around don't you. Go ahead if it makes you happy. Hope you feel like the big man you think you are
I would rather fly with one of these Kiwi pilots than someone like you anyday.
You have a good one.
You seem to like throwing insults around don't you. Go ahead if it makes you happy. Hope you feel like the big man you think you are
I would rather fly with one of these Kiwi pilots than someone like you anyday.
You have a good one.
Last edited by Cleared-HOT; 18th Dec 2012 at 21:33.
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Aga Bis
Like me I am sure you are allowed to have your own opinion, and my opinion is that YOU should stick to what you know about and that is flying a remote controlled heli at your local airport!
This subject has been trashed out enough in the past, you obviously were never told that "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything"!
You aren't worth explaining the ins and outs of this industry to, all I say is pull your head in, you know nothing about what you are commenting on, other than what you THINK may happen.
Times have changed, there isn't so much pressure anymore.
Like me I am sure you are allowed to have your own opinion, and my opinion is that YOU should stick to what you know about and that is flying a remote controlled heli at your local airport!
This subject has been trashed out enough in the past, you obviously were never told that "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything"!
You aren't worth explaining the ins and outs of this industry to, all I say is pull your head in, you know nothing about what you are commenting on, other than what you THINK may happen.
Times have changed, there isn't so much pressure anymore.
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Wild deer recovery (video)
I have had a blade strike in a 520N, I have seen other guys have them, I definitely landed ASAP along with all the others I have seen on various jobs over the years. Mine was the very top of a one inch diameter spruce tree,on a longline,80-100ft trees, tree was on blind side ,it popped the trailing edges on all 5 blades. Would you chance still flying with that.....and that was a single strike, that damaged all 5 blades not multiple strikes. Had a buddy strike the tips of a set of 350 blades a few years ago just before last light middle of winter @ -30c in the Boreal Forest, flying crews back to camp, yep they shut her down and overnighted in the bush. How do you know you haven't just caused a major delamination or worse.
Too insane in my world to keep on flying with any kind of blade strike, unless there is no other option, and then only to get to first available spot to put it down. And before I get flamed, nope not a model pilot, over 12000hrs in the bush, If you believe the pressure is not the same as in the past to perform, you haven't been flying operationally very often. Only difference I can see is we try to do it bloody safely these days........sadly a workmate of mine was killed a few years back in a D model along with everyone on board due to a plastic sample bag being blow through the main rotor, so yeah you guys who think blade strikes are the norm and keep going......good luck, specially in a 500, Darwin at its finest......
Too insane in my world to keep on flying with any kind of blade strike, unless there is no other option, and then only to get to first available spot to put it down. And before I get flamed, nope not a model pilot, over 12000hrs in the bush, If you believe the pressure is not the same as in the past to perform, you haven't been flying operationally very often. Only difference I can see is we try to do it bloody safely these days........sadly a workmate of mine was killed a few years back in a D model along with everyone on board due to a plastic sample bag being blow through the main rotor, so yeah you guys who think blade strikes are the norm and keep going......good luck, specially in a 500, Darwin at its finest......
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Newfieboy - What skidbiter was saying is that this video was from back in the day where the venison recovery industry was in its hey day. Back then there was prob 100 machines around NZ working on deer recovery. Today there would probably be a total of about 12 in the whole country. Back then you would get around $3500 for a live hind but these days they dont even go after live deer anymore because of all the deer farms out there.
The guys hunting today just shoot them and there isnt the pressure to perform and get many deer a morning like they did back then. I personally know the risks in this industry as had a lot of people I know killed in the venison industry.
Anyway hope that helps highlight what he was meaning by no pressure these days.
Cheers
CH
The guys hunting today just shoot them and there isnt the pressure to perform and get many deer a morning like they did back then. I personally know the risks in this industry as had a lot of people I know killed in the venison industry.
Anyway hope that helps highlight what he was meaning by no pressure these days.
Cheers
CH
Dennis Mulooly I am not sure about
Date: 22-NOV-1987
Type:
Piper PA-22-150 Tri-Pacer
Operator: Private
Registration: ZK-BSB
C/n / msn: 22-5417
Fatalities: Fatalities: 2 / Occupants: 2
Other fatalities: 0
Airplane damage: Written off (damaged beyond repair)
Location: Lochinvar Station, 25NM S/E of NZAP (Taupo) - New Zealand
Phase: En route
Nature: Private
Departure airport: NZWK
Destination airport: NZPP
Narrative:
Pilot: Vernon Ross Wood.
Passenger: Dennis Patrick Mullooly.
Aircraft was on private flight by owner with experienced helicopter pilot with him.
Appears to have got tangled up in bad weather, remote mountainous terrain, collided with terrain while attempting 180 degree turn.
Aircraft destroyed by impact forces and post crash fire.
Probably worthy of note is that eye to hand co-ordination and being good on the sticks aren't actually the whole picture when assessing someone's qualities as a pilot.
Deliberately trimming trees and continuing to fly, along with all sorts of other extreme risk-taking (no matter how much you justify it by saying they were making a lot of money) does not qualify as good piloting.
If these guys had been flying in this manner to avoid enemy fire and fight a war, that would be a different thing entirely but they were just hunting deer.
Deliberately trimming trees and continuing to fly, along with all sorts of other extreme risk-taking (no matter how much you justify it by saying they were making a lot of money) does not qualify as good piloting.
If these guys had been flying in this manner to avoid enemy fire and fight a war, that would be a different thing entirely but they were just hunting deer.
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and my opinion is that YOU should stick to what you know about and that is flying a remote controlled heli at your local airport!
These kind of jumped up comments have always bemused me, coming from presumably professional pilots.
Probably worthy of note is that eye to hand co-ordination and being good on the sticks aren't actually the whole picture when assessing someone's qualities as a pilot.
Deliberately trimming trees and continuing to fly, along with all sorts of other extreme risk-taking (no matter how much you justify it by saying they were making a lot of money) does not qualify as good piloting.
If these guys had been flying in this manner to avoid enemy fire and fight a war, that would be a different thing entirely but they were just hunting deer.
Deliberately trimming trees and continuing to fly, along with all sorts of other extreme risk-taking (no matter how much you justify it by saying they were making a lot of money) does not qualify as good piloting.
If these guys had been flying in this manner to avoid enemy fire and fight a war, that would be a different thing entirely but they were just hunting deer.
Madness!
*&%$ Me!
How many rotor strikes did he have in that clip?
Someone who won't make old bones, that's for sure. What an idiot!
How many rotor strikes did he have in that clip?
Someone who won't make old bones, that's for sure. What an idiot!
Last edited by Old Age Pilot; 19th Dec 2012 at 19:29.
A view from the other end of the monocle.........
I wuz there!
Given this all happened about 30 years ago now.
These guys were not paid a retainer or on an hourly rate. Payment was only on what was captured and/or shot.
In the day's when a live hind was worth NZD 3500.00 straight off the hill the pilot and shooter were probably on roughly NZD 125.00 each or possibly more.
2-3 hour good run in the morning in the spring with a start about 0415 could end up with ~ 12 in the bag. A run in the evening could bring another 6 or so and finish around 2300. Rinse - repeat.
You do the numbers.
Nobody is saying it is a good or a bad thing although a lot of skills were learnt at the time probably similar to a military conflict and you certainly got paid about 10 times as much as some poor sod in the military.
I think our Chief Pilot at the time was about 25 years old and had about 7000 hours by then. Flying commercially since about 19. I dont think flight and duty times were invented then!
Maintenance wise it was all about availability and keeping your co-workers alive. Additional inspections above and beyond the maintenance manual were regularly conducted.
With blade strikes it was the case of course to inspect the blade and repair if within limits and if not replace.
The productivity was so high that we had a large holding of spares. Engine chip? Dont fluff around trying to troubleshoot and replace modules - chuck another engine in and get it back in the air! Same with gearboxes etc.
I remember going shopping one day to our parts supplier - A set of blades, an engine complete, various other parts. Gave him a check for 275K, threw it all in the back of our Cessna 206 and flew home!
It served me well and I got out of it at 24 years of age as LAME, Commercial Fixed Wing Multi, Commercial Helicopter pilot.
A large majority of these pilots went on to become the backbone of skills in places like PNG with Pacific etc. due to their experience in the mountains and with sling and long line.
In Un Zud a helicopter is like an a$$hole - everyone's got one. ~800 odd machines for about 4 million people. Granted these days about 320 odd are Franks offspring but that wasn't always the case. There appears to be only about 50 H500 variants left.
The 350 is probably the basis of things commercial with about ~ 120 between B thru B4. Also throw in about 20 ~ 355's.
AS,
Pavé of Venison was de rigueur. For breakfast in the winter and still warm when it hit the pan!
Given this all happened about 30 years ago now.
These guys were not paid a retainer or on an hourly rate. Payment was only on what was captured and/or shot.
In the day's when a live hind was worth NZD 3500.00 straight off the hill the pilot and shooter were probably on roughly NZD 125.00 each or possibly more.
2-3 hour good run in the morning in the spring with a start about 0415 could end up with ~ 12 in the bag. A run in the evening could bring another 6 or so and finish around 2300. Rinse - repeat.
You do the numbers.
Nobody is saying it is a good or a bad thing although a lot of skills were learnt at the time probably similar to a military conflict and you certainly got paid about 10 times as much as some poor sod in the military.
I think our Chief Pilot at the time was about 25 years old and had about 7000 hours by then. Flying commercially since about 19. I dont think flight and duty times were invented then!
Maintenance wise it was all about availability and keeping your co-workers alive. Additional inspections above and beyond the maintenance manual were regularly conducted.
With blade strikes it was the case of course to inspect the blade and repair if within limits and if not replace.
The productivity was so high that we had a large holding of spares. Engine chip? Dont fluff around trying to troubleshoot and replace modules - chuck another engine in and get it back in the air! Same with gearboxes etc.
I remember going shopping one day to our parts supplier - A set of blades, an engine complete, various other parts. Gave him a check for 275K, threw it all in the back of our Cessna 206 and flew home!
It served me well and I got out of it at 24 years of age as LAME, Commercial Fixed Wing Multi, Commercial Helicopter pilot.
A large majority of these pilots went on to become the backbone of skills in places like PNG with Pacific etc. due to their experience in the mountains and with sling and long line.
In Un Zud a helicopter is like an a$$hole - everyone's got one. ~800 odd machines for about 4 million people. Granted these days about 320 odd are Franks offspring but that wasn't always the case. There appears to be only about 50 H500 variants left.
The 350 is probably the basis of things commercial with about ~ 120 between B thru B4. Also throw in about 20 ~ 355's.
AS,
Pavé of Venison was de rigueur. For breakfast in the winter and still warm when it hit the pan!
RVDT - great post.
They were different times.
While the film clip makes one's hair stand on end - it's also a remarkable demonstration of what an agile machine the little D-model is/was.
As a fellow kiwi - took a flight in the front seat of one as a wide eyed 8 year old who'd saved up all his pocket money, and have loved them ever since.
They were different times.
While the film clip makes one's hair stand on end - it's also a remarkable demonstration of what an agile machine the little D-model is/was.
As a fellow kiwi - took a flight in the front seat of one as a wide eyed 8 year old who'd saved up all his pocket money, and have loved them ever since.
RVDT - you don't say if you actually flew in this environment, your post reads as if you were one of the engineers.
Crab,
Certainly did. H300 and H500 for about 3 years.
And yes as one of the engineers which was not that unusual. I know of about 5 others who are LAMES and pilots.
Certainly did. H300 and H500 for about 3 years.
And yes as one of the engineers which was not that unusual. I know of about 5 others who are LAMES and pilots.
I am guessing then that you weren't quite so cavalier with your rotor tips
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Well, I'm sorely tempted to send the two sourpusses above toy remote controlled helicopters to practice crashing into trees while I get on with what I know - flying safely...
CH, skidbiter, you have a cool, calm Christmas eh? Chill.
CH, skidbiter, you have a cool, calm Christmas eh? Chill.
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We're the sourpusses AG LOL
Someone needs to take their meds.
Enjoy your piece of coal for Xmas.
Hey RVDT - Looks like we might get a remote controlled heli for Xmas. Bags the red one
Someone needs to take their meds.
Enjoy your piece of coal for Xmas.
Hey RVDT - Looks like we might get a remote controlled heli for Xmas. Bags the red one
