JAA IR Courses (including Converting FAA IR to JAA IR (Merged)

[OldRookie]

hmmm

Situations like this annoy me. If a company trains one of its employees they can claim the cost of training off their tax bill, depending on circumstances all of it or a percentage. Even if an individual is self employed they cant claim a penny of it. You can only claim for training that validates or upgrades existing qualifications. It would not be so bad if companies let you pay the difference or offered a contract where you could pay back a percentage each pay day over time. Am i being stupid and missing something ? But I am looking at starting a business in my wifes name and getting her to employ me and seeing if I can claim my training that way .

I would never get away with it !

[Heli-Ice]

IR(H) training provider in Denmark
www.airalpha.com

[2Sticks]

Flight Sim for IR training might save cash

Paco mentioned Helicopter Services at Wycombe - they now have a Simulator which is approved for some IR training. Sorry I don't know how much, but it might be worth calling them as it must be cheaper than the real thing!
2Sticks

[kissmysquirrel]

Heliservices IR training, for those with AS355 on licence already, costs about £20k plus vat I believe. You'd be lucky to get booked this year though from what I hear. They get many calls for the course and if anyone cancelled, I would assume there are people already waiting.

The sim is an FNPT2 so you can do 40 hours on it and 10 on the squirrel. It's set up as a Jet Ranger right now.

If you didn't have the as355 rating already, maybe add another 10k on top? I never like to ask exact prices. Too scary.

[walesuk]

If anyone can answer a couple of questions for me I'd appreciate it:

Do I need a type rating to get my JAA IR? I've been told both yes and no, so I'm a bit unclear here. I've written the CAA, but have yet to receive a response. I know at least one person who did the IR with Bristow who did not have a type rating for the 206.

Second, do I need to finish an IR course before the 3 year expiration or do I only need to start one? Is the CAA flexible at all on this (in other words, can I get an extension at all)? Again, no repsonse yet from the CAA on this.

I also saw that some places offer an IR on both twin and single engine. An IR is an IR right? If I did it single engine, all I'd need is a type rating to do twin IR, correct? Just curious why I'd spend the extra money to do it on a twin.

Thanks in advance.

[handysnaks]

With regard to your first question. Yes, prior to commencing your IR(H) Course you should have a type rating on the aircraft used for the IR(H) skill test or have completed approved type rating training on that type. See Lasors Section E 2.2

LASORS

[walesuk]

Thanks for that.

That section answered another question about SE and ME... just need a 5 hour conversion course plus type rating.

[jeepys]

You do not need the 206 on your licence if you do the IR with Bristows as they work under grandfather rights with that one but if you do it anywhere else yes you will have to be type rated on that machine

[FloaterNorthWest]

If you search CAA website for Heli Training Comm 1/2005 it will answer alot of questions about hour requirements for IR and type ratings.

Usually I would post a link but it is late and I have been dodging thunderstorms all day.

FNW

[Flingingwings]

Taking them in turn:

You will need to have either the ME type on your licence or have completed an approved course (IE initial ME type rating is 8 hrs. Having completed the course you don't need to take a skills test and then pay to add the type to your licence in order to complete the IR. Works well for N sea guys you train on an As355 but never intend to actual use an As355 IR (because IR's are type specific). As pointed out, under grandfather rights you can get round the TRT issue if you use Bristows AB206.

That said. The last I heard Bristows were having some maintenance difficulties with the AB206 so a call to their Norwich training school would be a good idea.

Under JAR a SE IR (from a licensing point of view) does not exist. So at the end of the Bristows course you get a certificate of course completion - practically an useable piece of paper unless you find a company to pay for the ME upgrade (or pay for it yourself). Costings wise if you're paying yourself it is cheaper to go ME from the outset.

Your exam credits are valid for three years up to date of licence application. So you'd need to have finished the course and have been tested before the theory credits have expired. The CAA have been known to extend exam credits but you'll need a good reason for them to consider it (Ie one outside your control - and no course availability isn't viewed as outside your control . Sadly just running out of time probably won't be good enough.

It probably won't help if you're short of time till your theory credits expire but the last i heard most training providers are fully booked till atleast early 2007 (in some cases until mid 2007) and have lengthy waiting lists should any student drop out

[kissmysquirrel]

PAS booked up until June2007 from what I hear. Helicopter services already booked till February2007. Dunno about Bond. March 2007 I hear.
Bristows? no clue.

If anyone has recently completed an IR, would be interested to hear how they found it, difficulty levels/bits they had problems with etc

PS, if anyone would like to help fund my own IR, donations would be most welcome!

[walesuk]

Thanks for the info everyone. Right now looking at PAS as it seems to be a bit less expensive and recommended by a few people.

Also seems the AS355 is a bit more widely used, therefore better to have a type rating for this? Any more opinions on this would be welcome.

[The Nr Fairy]

One other thing to check - what first time pass rates do each of the schools have ?

[Flingingwings]

KMS,
With your cheap accomodation you surely don't need any more financial assistance Perhaps 'they' will assist with costs as suggested and then unsuggested Aside from that better complete it in min hours or the pi$$ taking will be relentless

NR- From what I've heard you won't be having any major problems

[alpamayo]

does getting fixed wing IR first help to reduce cost for Heli IR

Hi there,

would be interested to know if someone has experience/ Knowledge about the option to do a fixed wing IR* first to save costs on the helicopter IR. heard you only have to do 10 h IR training on helicopter on top? And if - can you also combine those 10 h IR with a ME TR?


*Given that you are also already fixed wing pilot with more than 100h pic (requirement for IR on fixed wing)

[Curtis E Carr]

Originally Posted by alpamayo

Hi there,
would be interested to know if someone has experience/ Knowledge about the option to do a fixed wing IR* first to save costs on the helicopter IR. heard you only have to do 10 h IR training on helicopter on top? And if - can you also combine those 10 h IR with a ME TR?
*Given that you are also already fixed wing pilot with more than 100h pic (requirement for IR on fixed wing)

The training for the issue of the type rating and that for the IR are completely separate issues and cannot be combined. In other words, you will do 8 hrs plust test for the TR (assuming this is your first ME type) and 10 hrs plus test for the IR.
I did the IR(A) first before the IR(H) but this was pre-JAR. It may or may not be cheaper going down that route but I would suggest that you talk to schools who have FTDs as these can bring the cost down considerably. This may render the IR(A) to IR(H) route more expensive in the long run.

[kissmysquirrel]

You could theoretically go to somewhere like Aerofan in Spain and do the IR(A) in a relatively short period of time on a single engine plane for about 6000€, then come back and do a type rating for as355 and then the 10hr conversion for ME IR(H). It might save you some money and you would then also have a fixed wing IR too. Only real decision is do you want to do the majority in a box-like simulator or in a real aircraft? Of course, cost comes into it but Aerofan reckon on 3weeks for a SE IR(A) and I don't believe it can be done in that short a space of time.

[Martin1234]

*Given that you are also already fixed wing pilot with more than 100h pic (requirement for IR on fixed wing)

Not really.

JAR-FCL 1.190 Experience

An applicant for an IR(A) shall hold a PPL(A) including a night qualification or CPL(A) and shall have completed at least 50 hours cross-country flight time as pilot in command in aeroplanes or helicopters of which at least 10 hours shall be in aeroplanes.

[The Nr Fairy]

FW - but I'm on an easy course, not the IR.

[walesuk]

Can anyone tell me what the job market is for pilots without an IR in the UK? Other than SAR and offshore, what other markets require an IR?

I'm hoping to move to the UK in the spring or summer of '07 and want to know what my prospects would be without an IR. If the best road to a job is with an IR doing offshore stuff, then I need to get myself on a course now as my ATPL(H) exams run out in the spring.

Any input is appreciated.