Australia - NSW rescue helicopters services, uncertain of future!
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Australia - NSW rescue helicopters services, uncertain of future!
The NSW State Government has announced an overhaul of Aeromedical Rescue and Retrieval Services, favouring 1 dedicated service for all of NSW, meaning that the community based helo rescue services of Westpac LifeSaver and NRMA Careflight who have been operating for over 20years may no longer have a future. See the news article here.
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=162335
Lets hope the Government keeps these guys as it would be a shame to loose them. They are part of the community.
Cheers
Watched the news article on Channel 9 and read the written article on the NSW Aero Med Helos and what a load of emotive crap!
The NSW government want a single operator to ease operations and cut costs , a single operator with a single type will be alot more efficient than 2 or 3 small operators with no backup Helos and multiple sets of management, CHC operate 6x 412, 6x S-76 and 2x 365 on EMS/SAR/Police Ops around the country and Australian Helicopters operate several 412's and BK117's in similar roles , Careflight operate 412,BK,109 etc and supply paramedics and Doctors to several operators around the country any of which could do the NSW contract, that is if Careflight and Westpac want to remove all the sponsors stickers from there a/c and have a professional looking a/c not a flying billboard.
But for Channel 9 to go on with rubbish like the service will disappear and to wheel out Mothers who's kids were saved by Careflight and Westpac to say they should not be replaced is rediculous, i'm sure the crews of whichever helo did the work in the past or future will be just a professional in there jobs and the good crews will roll over to the new operator anyway (as always happens in this industry)
The NSW government want a single operator to ease operations and cut costs , a single operator with a single type will be alot more efficient than 2 or 3 small operators with no backup Helos and multiple sets of management, CHC operate 6x 412, 6x S-76 and 2x 365 on EMS/SAR/Police Ops around the country and Australian Helicopters operate several 412's and BK117's in similar roles , Careflight operate 412,BK,109 etc and supply paramedics and Doctors to several operators around the country any of which could do the NSW contract, that is if Careflight and Westpac want to remove all the sponsors stickers from there a/c and have a professional looking a/c not a flying billboard.
But for Channel 9 to go on with rubbish like the service will disappear and to wheel out Mothers who's kids were saved by Careflight and Westpac to say they should not be replaced is rediculous, i'm sure the crews of whichever helo did the work in the past or future will be just a professional in there jobs and the good crews will roll over to the new operator anyway (as always happens in this industry)
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Blackhawk9
I agree with your post, however you forgot the most important thing.
THE TAXPAYER. They are going to be the ones to pay for it.
It will make more sense to have all of the one type of aircraft.
I think you will find that most of the crews already with NRMA & careflight would go and fly for CHC or another large operator. (pending on PAY and conditions and aircraft ) which might exclude Jayrow and Australian Helicopters. Lets just hope its an improvment for all and not just some goverment beat up.
Banger
THE TAXPAYER. They are going to be the ones to pay for it.
It will make more sense to have all of the one type of aircraft.
I think you will find that most of the crews already with NRMA & careflight would go and fly for CHC or another large operator. (pending on PAY and conditions and aircraft ) which might exclude Jayrow and Australian Helicopters. Lets just hope its an improvment for all and not just some goverment beat up.
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What about the chook raffles?
Under Australian government legislation funds raised by a charity must be used for the purpose it was intended, in the area (location) and within the time frame stated by the fund raisers.
In some regional areas, local communities raise substantial donations for the local service; in fact a close bond develops. The second oldest profession in the world is selling tickets for a chook raffle at the local pub!
It is assumed a large corporation contracted by the government would not attract the same local monies from all those community activities? In fact, it has happened often in the past.
Does the efficiency gained by having a large operator (economy of scale) balance out the potential loss of small community funding from local fund raisers?
There are many case studies to review. Some are:
1. Queensland moving their helicopters from the SES to Premiers Department, etc, etc .
2. Problems with Westpac/Surf and the Newcastle base and funds diverted to Wollongong.
3. Even the collapse of the NSCA has a few lessons here.
4. Please add to this list…
Maybe we will price ourselves out of the business in the long term. Just needs a change of government and change of policy.
Remember the HAA and the cancelled Sydney Community Heliport near Darling Harbour. All it took was a new Premier - and all those hard earned (and costly) government approvals meant nothing.
Does the wheel of misfortune go round and round?
In some regional areas, local communities raise substantial donations for the local service; in fact a close bond develops. The second oldest profession in the world is selling tickets for a chook raffle at the local pub!
It is assumed a large corporation contracted by the government would not attract the same local monies from all those community activities? In fact, it has happened often in the past.
Does the efficiency gained by having a large operator (economy of scale) balance out the potential loss of small community funding from local fund raisers?
There are many case studies to review. Some are:
1. Queensland moving their helicopters from the SES to Premiers Department, etc, etc .
2. Problems with Westpac/Surf and the Newcastle base and funds diverted to Wollongong.
3. Even the collapse of the NSCA has a few lessons here.
4. Please add to this list…
Maybe we will price ourselves out of the business in the long term. Just needs a change of government and change of policy.
Remember the HAA and the cancelled Sydney Community Heliport near Darling Harbour. All it took was a new Premier - and all those hard earned (and costly) government approvals meant nothing.
Does the wheel of misfortune go round and round?
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Globalisation
Channel 9 news actually ran two stories supportive of the local operators on successive nights. And while community funded outfits have a 'feel good' aspect I think they will loose out to the world players eventually.
You cannot believe the economies of scale the multi nationals have. They can usually wipe the floor with you price wise & if they can't beat you that way then they just buy you out with an offer you can't refuse.
Seventy percent of my (water industry) customer base has been taken over by the same mulit national in the last five years. The 'big-is-beautiful' express is on a roll & I can't see it being derailed as a concept in my lifetime.
One day one of 'em will make a 20 trillion dollar offer on Oz & we can each take our one million & move to NZ?
You cannot believe the economies of scale the multi nationals have. They can usually wipe the floor with you price wise & if they can't beat you that way then they just buy you out with an offer you can't refuse.
Seventy percent of my (water industry) customer base has been taken over by the same mulit national in the last five years. The 'big-is-beautiful' express is on a roll & I can't see it being derailed as a concept in my lifetime.
One day one of 'em will make a 20 trillion dollar offer on Oz & we can each take our one million & move to NZ?
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Bring on one operator and clean up the whole NSW EMS industry by making the operator accountable to the public throught contracts via the government.
There are a lot of people who make a lot of money through these community funded government susidised opetations and very very few of them are pilots or crewies.
There are a lot of people who make a lot of money through these community funded government susidised opetations and very very few of them are pilots or crewies.
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round we go
so if the state government rationalises services to a single operator
how long do people think it will take before cost cuts/ elections/ policy changes &/or budget reallocation will result in a reduction of services to regional areas that are now financing their own community based EMS through necessity (already a lack of state services).
once these community based services are gone, will they ever have the opportunity to resurface, if/when services degrade warranting such action.
only when (more) lives are needlessly lost.
how long do people think it will take before cost cuts/ elections/ policy changes &/or budget reallocation will result in a reduction of services to regional areas that are now financing their own community based EMS through necessity (already a lack of state services).
once these community based services are gone, will they ever have the opportunity to resurface, if/when services degrade warranting such action.
only when (more) lives are needlessly lost.
Sorry, a single operator is not going to suddenly make things better. A better idea is to look at where the aircraft are required, and set up strategically located bases to service those areas, with an open tender requiring 'x' equipment to service it.
Big companies are not always best.
Don't the comunity helicopter EMS operations belong to the comunity? How is the government going to stop a local area having a service if they fund it themselves?
One type will not solve all your problems either. Why do you need a 412 over a BK for EMS ops only? In fact why would you want the expense of using a 139 when a BK/135/365 could do the job fine?
I have just spent 18 months working in a country which is mostly serviced by 427's and 135's, and which has a excellent aeromedical service using these aircraft. Maybe a look abroad would help.
Big companies are not always best.
Don't the comunity helicopter EMS operations belong to the comunity? How is the government going to stop a local area having a service if they fund it themselves?
One type will not solve all your problems either. Why do you need a 412 over a BK for EMS ops only? In fact why would you want the expense of using a 139 when a BK/135/365 could do the job fine?
I have just spent 18 months working in a country which is mostly serviced by 427's and 135's, and which has a excellent aeromedical service using these aircraft. Maybe a look abroad would help.
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Well this seems to have stirred up some differing opinions which is always good to debate.
Some interesting opinions too.
Firstly, I must say that I agree that as a community funded operator, they have good close links to the community. 2/3rds of their operating costs are from donations and sponsors. And I dont think that having a sponsors logo on your machine detracts from the professionalism of the crew operating it. So, a single operator will cost more and we will always end up footing the bill.
As for the mention of someone reaping in the money from the community sponsored operators, Id certainly like to know WHO. As you said, the pilots and crew certainly dont see it. And as a community supported operation, I dare say that anyone funnelling money into their pocket would not last long in one of these organisations.
I dont see what the issue is. Where is the problem that requires the solution of one service. Both Lifesaver and Careflight all have at least 1 back up machine and both have made commitments to get at least another 1 each. There is definately no questioning of the skill and ability of the crews, so where is the problem.
Like Land/Motor Vehicle/Vertical Rescue in NSW, it is split between numerous agencies. Some fully Government funded and others community based and funded. This may not be the best method, but if it works why is there a need to change it to an option that may not be the best option.
Only time will tell.
Cheers
Angus
PS for those of you wanting to know some history of these services, read Helicopter Rescue, by Dr. Ken Wishaw, Australia's first fulltime helicopter Doctor. Its a good read and some great old photos too.
Some interesting opinions too.
Firstly, I must say that I agree that as a community funded operator, they have good close links to the community. 2/3rds of their operating costs are from donations and sponsors. And I dont think that having a sponsors logo on your machine detracts from the professionalism of the crew operating it. So, a single operator will cost more and we will always end up footing the bill.
As for the mention of someone reaping in the money from the community sponsored operators, Id certainly like to know WHO. As you said, the pilots and crew certainly dont see it. And as a community supported operation, I dare say that anyone funnelling money into their pocket would not last long in one of these organisations.
I dont see what the issue is. Where is the problem that requires the solution of one service. Both Lifesaver and Careflight all have at least 1 back up machine and both have made commitments to get at least another 1 each. There is definately no questioning of the skill and ability of the crews, so where is the problem.
Like Land/Motor Vehicle/Vertical Rescue in NSW, it is split between numerous agencies. Some fully Government funded and others community based and funded. This may not be the best method, but if it works why is there a need to change it to an option that may not be the best option.
Only time will tell.
Cheers
Angus
PS for those of you wanting to know some history of these services, read Helicopter Rescue, by Dr. Ken Wishaw, Australia's first fulltime helicopter Doctor. Its a good read and some great old photos too.
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This subject has been flogged to death a few times in different threads. Many, including yours truly have criticised various aspects of some of your chook raffle ethics.
I think Rob Rich's advice is good, have a good look at the NSCA working structure and aloofness as just one example. Forget their demise that was going to happen, blind freddy could see that.
Seems like you guys need to get yourselves organised if you want to preserve the status quo.
That means;
1, combine your arguments,
2, make sure you answer ALL of the criticisms here and in other threads (because for sure they will be reported by others to the ministers men)
3, Go lobby your NSW minister and follow it up with the federal minister. Remember we now have one that speaks and listens.
4, If you force a ministerial or two and don't senior public servants just love (NOT) ministerials, then make sure that you have the public servants that matter, on your side. You'll find many of them in CASA others occupy the halls of government. (spin doctors)
At the end of the day if you make just enough noise before writs are issued for the NSW elections, you might just change a ministerial opinion or two.
CC everything, including personal visits to the opposition. (Martin Ferguson was a good ally in many aviation arguments)
Noise equals votes,
and
I would hate for us to have to put up with Mr ViceLike crowing to the minions if you all go down.
cheers tet
I think Rob Rich's advice is good, have a good look at the NSCA working structure and aloofness as just one example. Forget their demise that was going to happen, blind freddy could see that.
Seems like you guys need to get yourselves organised if you want to preserve the status quo.
That means;
1, combine your arguments,
2, make sure you answer ALL of the criticisms here and in other threads (because for sure they will be reported by others to the ministers men)
3, Go lobby your NSW minister and follow it up with the federal minister. Remember we now have one that speaks and listens.
4, If you force a ministerial or two and don't senior public servants just love (NOT) ministerials, then make sure that you have the public servants that matter, on your side. You'll find many of them in CASA others occupy the halls of government. (spin doctors)
At the end of the day if you make just enough noise before writs are issued for the NSW elections, you might just change a ministerial opinion or two.
CC everything, including personal visits to the opposition. (Martin Ferguson was a good ally in many aviation arguments)
Noise equals votes,
and
I would hate for us to have to put up with Mr ViceLike crowing to the minions if you all go down.
cheers tet
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Save the Helicopters
Westpac Life Saver has been operating in NSW for 34 years, and has saved more than 20,000 lives.
In NSW they operate:
2 x BK 117 B2
1 x Bell 402
2 x Bell 407
2 x Eurocopter Dauphins
They have also just had a new state-of-the-art rescue base built in Sydney that will allow them to respond to emergencies much quicker.
They are a part of the community and need to stay that way, that is why i am asking all people who support these helicopters and want them to remain serving the NSW people to sign the petition http://www.petitiononline.com/rescueit/petition.html
WE CAN SAVE THE WESTPAC LIFE SAVER RESCUE HELICOPTER
In NSW they operate:
2 x BK 117 B2
1 x Bell 402
2 x Bell 407
2 x Eurocopter Dauphins
They have also just had a new state-of-the-art rescue base built in Sydney that will allow them to respond to emergencies much quicker.
They are a part of the community and need to stay that way, that is why i am asking all people who support these helicopters and want them to remain serving the NSW people to sign the petition http://www.petitiononline.com/rescueit/petition.html
WE CAN SAVE THE WESTPAC LIFE SAVER RESCUE HELICOPTER
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It's always going to be a tough fight no matter which side of the fence you sit on and whether or not you think the grass is greener is a matter of opinion. The thing to remember is that no matter who wins, and we won't know for a longtime yet, the service provided to the people that need it must remain high.
Bad mouthing each or firing up the local radio station in attempt to gain support isn't going to swing the vote. Let the process run it's course and if at the end of the day you come undone the worst thing that will happen is you'll have to change the colour of your flight suits. If you don't have a flight suit/overalls, I wouldn't worry to much, you've probably got something to do with the downfall and your serf's won't be needing you anymore.
Bad mouthing each or firing up the local radio station in attempt to gain support isn't going to swing the vote. Let the process run it's course and if at the end of the day you come undone the worst thing that will happen is you'll have to change the colour of your flight suits. If you don't have a flight suit/overalls, I wouldn't worry to much, you've probably got something to do with the downfall and your serf's won't be needing you anymore.
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As an interested observer, it would seem to me that unless there is something drastically wrong with the current system, why would the NSW Govt want to change it? If they are unhappy with some of the operations, then they should be given time to put a fix in place to overcome these problems. It seems to me that Careflight et al have been doing a pretty good job over the last 20-30 years, and with their improving rescue/EMS services, they will most likely give good service over the next 20 (if allowed).
As I work for a goverment department that is extremely frugal (shall we say), it seems strange that the NSW govt is going to (possibly) take away operators that are locally funded and give it all to someone else (CHC or someone else) and that will all cost big bucks out of the government coffers (I don't think the chook raffles will go ahead if the Westpac gets replaced). Normally a govt department is after the cheapest option, but surprises happen.
If the govt wanted to have a single operator, then they should do the QES option of them owning and operating their own aircraft and crew. If they set it up right, it would be cheaper to run and they own the assets to manage as they like. Bit like renting a house when you can own one.
As it stands, the status quo is working so why play with it.
As I work for a goverment department that is extremely frugal (shall we say), it seems strange that the NSW govt is going to (possibly) take away operators that are locally funded and give it all to someone else (CHC or someone else) and that will all cost big bucks out of the government coffers (I don't think the chook raffles will go ahead if the Westpac gets replaced). Normally a govt department is after the cheapest option, but surprises happen.
If the govt wanted to have a single operator, then they should do the QES option of them owning and operating their own aircraft and crew. If they set it up right, it would be cheaper to run and they own the assets to manage as they like. Bit like renting a house when you can own one.
As it stands, the status quo is working so why play with it.
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sunnywa.....
I think you are way too logical, and, have way too much commonsense.
With those attributes it is obvious you cannot cope with the politics of "vested Interest" operations as pertaining to helicoper operations.
I think you are way too logical, and, have way too much commonsense.
With those attributes it is obvious you cannot cope with the politics of "vested Interest" operations as pertaining to helicoper operations.
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Save Westpac Helicopter “WHY” and FROM WHOM”
Why does the Westpac helicopter need saving? As stated by the CEO of the Ambulance Service on the Ray Hadly show only Sydney Wollongong and Orange helicopter bases are being contracted for in this EMS tender. So why does the Westpac helicopter need saving. The only helicopter bidding for this tender, that is currently sponsored by Westpac is the Southern Region Lifesaver helicopter service.
I don’t understand how this tender process has been linked to the NSW government as a plot to shut down the charity helicopter organizations. This tender is about providing the state of NSW the best Aeromedical Helicopter network that can be provided and to ensure that this very important transport system integrates and complements the health system fix wing fleet as well as current and evolving health care services. It is up to a charity to provide services to the community that is not provided by existing government services or funding. Now the government has committed to ejecting large amounts of money’s into a world leading helicopter retrieval/ rescue network they are demanding control, direction and supply of such assets, is this not reasonable? Considering that the government have taken ownership of this vital healthcare provision.
Charity helicopter operators are business working under a charity banner. No they don’t make money for their shareholders however certain people within these organizations have lifetime employment from these business so they have vested interest in maintaining these operations. If we look at the history of the Surf helicopters we see a very interesting pattern of in fighting and monies that are channelled back to the central organization. This became very obvious in the early 80’s when Westpac Newcastle became the cash cow for Surf Lifesaving until they split and became there own company. This has continued through time, regional area consist of communities that have true Australian values and support what they deem a vital need for their well being and the well being of their fellow community members. This support has been tapped into by these high profile charities and this vein of gold is being mined 24/7. This was recently high-lighted when the Southern region helicopter service changed its name to tap into the south coast gold mine. This had a fatal end when the community and its unions demanded there withdraw because of alleged funds raised in the south coast area were being funnelled back into the Sydney operation.
“No” the government is not shutting down charity helicopters. If charity helicopters shut don it will because they have not had the business intellect to plan their future and measure market risks and place strategies to mitigate these risks. If any charity helicopter operators are unsuccessful in this tender process they will need to assess if there is a community need for their services or if there business needs to take a new direction. All companies face this market demands Charities are not and should not be protected from these threats. At the end of the day we are talking about what is better for the communities.
By the way don’t forget each charity helicopter has its own fund raisers, its own management, its own fleet of cars, its own engineers. What is this cost? up to $1000000.00 a year in charity dollars wasted at each base, if only one charity operator owned the contract then only one set of costs. So which charity must go or does the Government just fully fund the system.
Is it Careflight?, is it Surf?, is it Guardian?, Well who goes someone MUST
I don’t understand how this tender process has been linked to the NSW government as a plot to shut down the charity helicopter organizations. This tender is about providing the state of NSW the best Aeromedical Helicopter network that can be provided and to ensure that this very important transport system integrates and complements the health system fix wing fleet as well as current and evolving health care services. It is up to a charity to provide services to the community that is not provided by existing government services or funding. Now the government has committed to ejecting large amounts of money’s into a world leading helicopter retrieval/ rescue network they are demanding control, direction and supply of such assets, is this not reasonable? Considering that the government have taken ownership of this vital healthcare provision.
Charity helicopter operators are business working under a charity banner. No they don’t make money for their shareholders however certain people within these organizations have lifetime employment from these business so they have vested interest in maintaining these operations. If we look at the history of the Surf helicopters we see a very interesting pattern of in fighting and monies that are channelled back to the central organization. This became very obvious in the early 80’s when Westpac Newcastle became the cash cow for Surf Lifesaving until they split and became there own company. This has continued through time, regional area consist of communities that have true Australian values and support what they deem a vital need for their well being and the well being of their fellow community members. This support has been tapped into by these high profile charities and this vein of gold is being mined 24/7. This was recently high-lighted when the Southern region helicopter service changed its name to tap into the south coast gold mine. This had a fatal end when the community and its unions demanded there withdraw because of alleged funds raised in the south coast area were being funnelled back into the Sydney operation.
“No” the government is not shutting down charity helicopters. If charity helicopters shut don it will because they have not had the business intellect to plan their future and measure market risks and place strategies to mitigate these risks. If any charity helicopter operators are unsuccessful in this tender process they will need to assess if there is a community need for their services or if there business needs to take a new direction. All companies face this market demands Charities are not and should not be protected from these threats. At the end of the day we are talking about what is better for the communities.
By the way don’t forget each charity helicopter has its own fund raisers, its own management, its own fleet of cars, its own engineers. What is this cost? up to $1000000.00 a year in charity dollars wasted at each base, if only one charity operator owned the contract then only one set of costs. So which charity must go or does the Government just fully fund the system.
Is it Careflight?, is it Surf?, is it Guardian?, Well who goes someone MUST
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I think you will find that this contract is just the tip of the iceberg. NSW Health would like to sort this mess out first, then the rest of the state will follow, including the kids helo service.
Hunter, Lismore and Childflight beware....YOUR NEXT!
Hunter, Lismore and Childflight beware....YOUR NEXT!