The safety, or otherwise of Robinson's.......
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The safety, or otherwise of Robinsons.......
The Robinson Helicopter Company recently released a Safety Notice relating to concerns about Post Crash Fires.
Perhaps it would be best not to fly such machines at all??
I'm sure somebody out there will want to comment ..................
Chocks away!
There have been a number of cases where helicopter or light plane occupants have survived an accident only to be severely burned by fire following the accident.
To reduce the risk of injury in a postcrash fire, it is strongly recommended that a fire-retardant Nomex flight suit, gloves, and hood or helmet be worn by all occupants.
To reduce the risk of injury in a postcrash fire, it is strongly recommended that a fire-retardant Nomex flight suit, gloves, and hood or helmet be worn by all occupants.
I'm sure somebody out there will want to comment ..................
Chocks away!
Last edited by Teefor Gage; 1st Aug 2006 at 20:43.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Australia
Age: 47
Posts: 728
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"When you purchase a new or overhauled Robinson it comes with complementary 2 piece flight suit (colour to be descided by customer) and Alpha flight helmet with option to upgrade to NVG!".
..........But dont expect any Labour warranty on faulty items.....must be paid for by customer
...........and if you dont like it go buy a Bell or Eurocopter he tells us
..but he didnt expect i would get my own back at the heli expo at the cocktail party
...and afterwards..........
..........But dont expect any Labour warranty on faulty items.....must be paid for by customer...........and if you dont like it go buy a Bell or Eurocopter he tells us..but he didnt expect i would get my own back at the heli expo at the cocktail party...and afterwards..........
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Belgium
Age: 60
Posts: 494
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Post crash fires isn't unique to Robinsons. Helicopter flying isn't without risks, infact it's dangerous. So everone has to decide for themself how they want to reduce the risks to a minimum.
I personally wear a helmet, nomex flight suit, gloves, leather boots. Don't consider flying without, you never know when something is going to happen. Had several engine failures all very unexpected of course.
I personally wear a helmet, nomex flight suit, gloves, leather boots. Don't consider flying without, you never know when something is going to happen. Had several engine failures all very unexpected of course.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Post crash fires isn't unique to Robinsons. Helicopter flying isn't without risks, infact it's dangerous. So everone has to decide for themself how they want to reduce the risks to a minimum.
Shouldn't they work harder at making machines more reliable and, to cover those "Murphy moments", shouldn't they design in crashworthiness to help preserve the occupants??????
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 593
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Teefor: in one of your recent posts you stated "Flying over an almost deserted beach, seeing a gorgeous woman sunbathing and landing my chopper .............."
Has anyone warned you about the dangers of women ? Let alone the hazard assessment you should carry out before trying to land your A332 near any person. Is that the A332 with the fireproof fuel option and the ejection capsule that launches if a naked flame is held near the cockpit ?
And then there's the problem of the naked OLD flame.........
Has anyone warned you about the dangers of women ? Let alone the hazard assessment you should carry out before trying to land your A332 near any person. Is that the A332 with the fireproof fuel option and the ejection capsule that launches if a naked flame is held near the cockpit ?
And then there's the problem of the naked OLD flame.........
ATSB study may help
Oz safety people put out a little read paper on light helicopter safety.
It compares one type to another, in accident, and we have about 600 whizzing around down under.
What did they find?
The Robinson, being FAR 27 standard is many times safer than products X, Y and Z.
Other thing to note, (in an R22) if you hit so hard it busts the fuel tanks, then you are dead meat! Impact forces are beyond human tolerance.
I will dig up the references later .. and precis here.
It compares one type to another, in accident, and we have about 600 whizzing around down under.
What did they find?
The Robinson, being FAR 27 standard is many times safer than products X, Y and Z.
Other thing to note, (in an R22) if you hit so hard it busts the fuel tanks, then you are dead meat! Impact forces are beyond human tolerance.
I will dig up the references later .. and precis here.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
headsethair
Don't confuse dreams with reality - or perhaps you didn't!!
I did conduct a hazard assessment for landing an AS332 near a woman on a beach, but decided that all that would be in it for me was ......... sand!!
I did conduct a hazard assessment for landing an AS332 near a woman on a beach, but decided that all that would be in it for me was ......... sand!!
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: South of the border
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Robsrich
I would beg to differ with your point:
"Other thing to note, (in an R22) if you hit so hard it busts the fuel tanks, then you are dead meat! Impact forces are beyond human tolerance."
Not true I'm afraid!
Having hit the deck in an R22 and watched fuel pi**ing out all over the floor from a ruptured main fuel tank..... I'm still here
I would beg to differ with your point:
"Other thing to note, (in an R22) if you hit so hard it busts the fuel tanks, then you are dead meat! Impact forces are beyond human tolerance."
Not true I'm afraid!
Having hit the deck in an R22 and watched fuel pi**ing out all over the floor from a ruptured main fuel tank..... I'm still here
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,957
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by belly tank
"When you purchase a new or overhauled Robinson it comes with complementary 2 piece flight suit (colour to be descided by customer) and Alpha flight helmet with option to upgrade to NVG!".
BTW what is the flying suit made of?
Re 12E's we always reckon don't fly them, you're sitting on the fuel tank, which will rupture, all academic when the engine - xmon falls off and ends up in the cab?
I've seen two 47's that burnt out of 30 , that crew survived the impact but one not the fire.
R22's, never seen or heard of one that burnt that was survivable
As far as I am concerned the jury is still out on R44's, remember the famous photo of one with a tail boom cut by the M/r blade and that flew home, a/c had slightly bent skids, was U/S because of buckled firewall, i've seen a couple like that.
Re the clothing, once had a crewie used to fly in his jocks and thongs, malboro's and SLR, this was after his employer had provided him and all his colleagues with nomex suit, SPH4's and Redwings boots.
heavy jeans and full cotton or wool is good enough and get your gloves from the local western wear shop - calf roping gloves- cheap, comfortable, warm and nearly as safe as nomex.
027PMR
You are very lucky - stats speaking.
Topendtorque's observation is spot on - accident stats suggest that not many survive an R22 that has caught on fire.
The cause would have to be a decent impact with something. The rarely catch on fire by comparison.
On another matter, I was painfully going through ATSB incidents over a few years - to up date a course; and noticed an extra ordinary number of control zone penetrations, ignoring ATC instructions, crossing runways when told not too; being inside CTR before getting a clearance, etc.
Now in the day of GPS; what is going wrong?
None of the other light aircraft groups have the same trend, and they out number us 10:1. So they should have heaps too - but they don't seem to as much.
Any ideas - is it a lack of maps, rusty map reading, or not having a suitable chart?
Makes us look a little dumb. The starch wing guys can look down their nose at us here??
Just an odd observation.
Go to ATSB weekly summaries, etc
You are very lucky - stats speaking.
Topendtorque's observation is spot on - accident stats suggest that not many survive an R22 that has caught on fire.
The cause would have to be a decent impact with something. The rarely catch on fire by comparison.
On another matter, I was painfully going through ATSB incidents over a few years - to up date a course; and noticed an extra ordinary number of control zone penetrations, ignoring ATC instructions, crossing runways when told not too; being inside CTR before getting a clearance, etc.
Now in the day of GPS; what is going wrong?
None of the other light aircraft groups have the same trend, and they out number us 10:1. So they should have heaps too - but they don't seem to as much.
Any ideas - is it a lack of maps, rusty map reading, or not having a suitable chart?
Makes us look a little dumb. The starch wing guys can look down their nose at us here??
Just an odd observation.
Go to ATSB weekly summaries, etc
Don't ever use leather gloves as a protection against fire. Once on fire they do not let pass vapor and your hands will not be grilled but cocked. Works on lower temperatures too. Boots are not that critical because they are normaly thicker and have several layers. If you want something for your hands, use the real stuff that is out there. 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: England
Posts: 518
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Efirmovich
Should look good arriving for lunch at le Manoir in full Nomex ! Wonder what Ray would think ?
E.
E.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Florida
Age: 52
Posts: 418
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know a guy who survived a post fire crash in an R22. It wasn't the fuel tanks that broke or split, but that the fuel cap came off. He was dressed in full Nomex and a helmet. He has an incredible spirit, but is very disfigured.
I remember we went to HAI in Vegas and he came with us. A group of us were sitting in a hotel room talking about dumb stuff we had done and he walked in in just his underwear and told us to never fool around in helicopters. Point taken. A very sobering sight. It's interesting looking at his arms because where his flight suit doubled over his gloves he received no burns at all.
It's very interesting talking to him about the accident. He remembers lying on his side after the crash and as he climbed out he remembers seeing his helmet visor dripping down infront of his eyes as it melted. The other guy who was with him survived the crash and fire, but died later of his injuries. He wasn't wearing Nomex or a helmet.
I remember we went to HAI in Vegas and he came with us. A group of us were sitting in a hotel room talking about dumb stuff we had done and he walked in in just his underwear and told us to never fool around in helicopters. Point taken. A very sobering sight. It's interesting looking at his arms because where his flight suit doubled over his gloves he received no burns at all.
It's very interesting talking to him about the accident. He remembers lying on his side after the crash and as he climbed out he remembers seeing his helmet visor dripping down infront of his eyes as it melted. The other guy who was with him survived the crash and fire, but died later of his injuries. He wasn't wearing Nomex or a helmet.