Compulsory helmets/flight suits: merged threads
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I have just read the reports into the PSI S76 Helicopter crash yesterday in the USA........ it uses the words 'perished' and 'head trauma', I think i'm going to shelve out some money without doubt now on a suit and helmet.
My thoughts go out to the deceased families.
My thoughts go out to the deceased families.
just remember that an accident in a helicopter, which goes wrong to the point of a substantial impact, will most likely give you blunt trauma injuries no matter what you're wearing. The human body can cope with quite high g loading really but only to a point, helmet or no helmet.
Your internal organs will come loose inside you, or if you're lucky, a quick death will ensue with a torn aorta. Not fun reading but a couple of the crashes i'm familiar with, no matter what safety gear they had been wearing would have given them any protection. It's all down to personal choice and weighing up your own sense of risk.
Your internal organs will come loose inside you, or if you're lucky, a quick death will ensue with a torn aorta. Not fun reading but a couple of the crashes i'm familiar with, no matter what safety gear they had been wearing would have given them any protection. It's all down to personal choice and weighing up your own sense of risk.
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back when i did my initial training in south africa all the pilots/instructors wore flight suits, whether flying their pumas to do relief work or their 22's doing photo shoots, and everything in between. everyone thought they always looked very professional and, perfectly suited to the job (excuse the pun), i agree, they looked much more professional than some people i have seen flying in the uk with aweful cheap looking, badly fitting, black trouser/white shirt combo, (although i have also seen suited pilots looking very smart). i'm all for the flight suit, especially for the added safety
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Reasons to wear a flying suit.....
One of my main reasons for preferring a flying suit is that IMHO it helps reduce the hazard of loose articles in the cockpit. It has loads of pockets with zips which are mainly in the right places and accessable even when wearing a harness.
This may be a residual habit from the RAF but loose coins, sunglasses case, pens etc. can be a real danger....
Another benefit is that it could reduce burn injuries in the event of an accident but I value its practical features more. It also keeps my civvies clean when doing a walk-round when oil, fuel, dust and dirt can spoil what you are wearing. The only pain is having to empty all those pockets when its time to throw it in the wash.
MB
This may be a residual habit from the RAF but loose coins, sunglasses case, pens etc. can be a real danger....
Another benefit is that it could reduce burn injuries in the event of an accident but I value its practical features more. It also keeps my civvies clean when doing a walk-round when oil, fuel, dust and dirt can spoil what you are wearing. The only pain is having to empty all those pockets when its time to throw it in the wash.
MB
yes but some of us work for companies who will supply you with a flight suit (one!) even though you will fly in it every day you're at work when not wearing a rubber goon suit, and this has to be kept clean. The suits come in fixed sizes so if you don't exactly match the suit size, then it's uncomfortable to wear and you can end up looking a mess.
If we had made to measure flight suits, as some companies supply, then great. Helmets?
I think we recently had a memo saying we shouldn't turn up for work wearing denim jeans, but it's okay to wear a slightly ill fitting flight suit though.
If we had made to measure flight suits, as some companies supply, then great. Helmets?
I think we recently had a memo saying we shouldn't turn up for work wearing denim jeans, but it's okay to wear a slightly ill fitting flight suit though.
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Burn Proof? Not...
Don't forget boys and girls, your expensive NOMEX suit is no longer fire retardant and therefore an utter waste of time as such, if you don't launder it correctly.
If you wash your NOMEX suit in a machine with all your other laundry, made up of the usual garments made from cotton, wool and other various man-made fibers, the fibers from those clothes will entwine themselves amongst the cloth of the NOMEX suit, thereby reducing it's fire retardant qualities substantially. It is even worse if you've put the flight suit in a tumble dryer with the same other items of clothing mentioned.
When I was in the Air Force (guess which one?) Safety Equipment Section was responsible for laundering our issued flight suits. We were not supposed to launder them ourselves - ever. The washing machines Safety Equipment used had only ever had NOMEX type material in them, and a specific flame retardant detergent was used.
Away from the training base though, it was a different story...
Besides, a properly laundered NOMEX Suit is only good for protection from a flash fire. A fully established post crash fuel fire and you're probably a crispy critter anyway.
However, given a choice, I'd rather wear a flight suit over the faggy looking blank pants/white shirt and airline-wanna-be-captain-bars-moneky-suit, so many companies insist we wear. Just a personal thing. To each their own I guess...
For example, there's nothing like the red grease from a Bell preflight on your spiffy looking white shirt to make you look - well nasty and unprofessional. On a flight suit, chances are it can be a bit less conspicuous.
Maybe that's why there are several companies out there, that seem to insist that the pilot preflight of a helicopter is, merely a "walk around", with no getting up there and into it with the cowlings open - to really look it over.
Besides all that "personal preference" regarding uniforms goes though, the main thing I'd like to point out is that I have several personal mates, several acquaintances and even more "anecdotal colleagues" who are alive today, due to the fact they were wearing a helmet when things got nasty.
Which is why I insist on wearing one myself - always.
In fact the last 3 jobs I've had, I have asked during the interview process if there was any issue with my doing so. Luckily, I was told, "No, that would be my personal choice." When asked why I had asked, I said that if the answer had been "No", I would have had to pass on the job.
As someone previously said, it's often pretty hot in there anyway, even with just a lightweight headset. So the peace of mind the added protection gives is well worth it. The plus factor I find is the huge reduction in noise I have from the helmet I wear, and the added safety from the clear visor I always have down, no matter the weather or light conditions.
There'd be no worse of an irony I think, of being alive after the impact of the crash, but non-compus-mentus enough to fail to make it out of the wreckage due to the fact you were stunned from a head impact, and then end up burning or drowning after the fact. That would just seem dumb and futile to me...
So, at the end of the day, here's wishing you all safe flying, good luck and never the need to require the necessity of the safety equipment we are advised to use.
A safe and prosperous 2009 to you all! Take care...
If you wash your NOMEX suit in a machine with all your other laundry, made up of the usual garments made from cotton, wool and other various man-made fibers, the fibers from those clothes will entwine themselves amongst the cloth of the NOMEX suit, thereby reducing it's fire retardant qualities substantially. It is even worse if you've put the flight suit in a tumble dryer with the same other items of clothing mentioned.
When I was in the Air Force (guess which one?) Safety Equipment Section was responsible for laundering our issued flight suits. We were not supposed to launder them ourselves - ever. The washing machines Safety Equipment used had only ever had NOMEX type material in them, and a specific flame retardant detergent was used.
Away from the training base though, it was a different story...
Besides, a properly laundered NOMEX Suit is only good for protection from a flash fire. A fully established post crash fuel fire and you're probably a crispy critter anyway.
However, given a choice, I'd rather wear a flight suit over the faggy looking blank pants/white shirt and airline-wanna-be-captain-bars-moneky-suit, so many companies insist we wear. Just a personal thing. To each their own I guess...
For example, there's nothing like the red grease from a Bell preflight on your spiffy looking white shirt to make you look - well nasty and unprofessional. On a flight suit, chances are it can be a bit less conspicuous.
Maybe that's why there are several companies out there, that seem to insist that the pilot preflight of a helicopter is, merely a "walk around", with no getting up there and into it with the cowlings open - to really look it over.
Besides all that "personal preference" regarding uniforms goes though, the main thing I'd like to point out is that I have several personal mates, several acquaintances and even more "anecdotal colleagues" who are alive today, due to the fact they were wearing a helmet when things got nasty.
Which is why I insist on wearing one myself - always.
In fact the last 3 jobs I've had, I have asked during the interview process if there was any issue with my doing so. Luckily, I was told, "No, that would be my personal choice." When asked why I had asked, I said that if the answer had been "No", I would have had to pass on the job.
As someone previously said, it's often pretty hot in there anyway, even with just a lightweight headset. So the peace of mind the added protection gives is well worth it. The plus factor I find is the huge reduction in noise I have from the helmet I wear, and the added safety from the clear visor I always have down, no matter the weather or light conditions.
There'd be no worse of an irony I think, of being alive after the impact of the crash, but non-compus-mentus enough to fail to make it out of the wreckage due to the fact you were stunned from a head impact, and then end up burning or drowning after the fact. That would just seem dumb and futile to me...
So, at the end of the day, here's wishing you all safe flying, good luck and never the need to require the necessity of the safety equipment we are advised to use.
A safe and prosperous 2009 to you all! Take care...
There's been a lot of discussion elsewhere about the real value of a standard Nomex flight suit in terms of fire protection. But anyway I wear mine when flying the heli not so much for fire protection but because the preflight (R44) involves grovelling around on the ground, which I prefer not to do in my best clothes. I bought it for flying the Pitts, again not so much for fire protection (with the fuel tank right above your knees, in the front seat at least, I'm not sure really how much good it would do) but because of all the handy zip-up acro-proof pockets.
I'd feel a bit silly wearing it to go for a day out in the 182, although the pros (Police etc) wear the full gear including helmet even in a 182.
n5296s
I'd feel a bit silly wearing it to go for a day out in the 182, although the pros (Police etc) wear the full gear including helmet even in a 182.
n5296s
If your worry is fire Carbon X appears to offer a leap in protection especially if you wear cotton undergarments or the prescribed underwear for the product.
Nomex has a verrrry short safety span with single later.
Had no thought about the washing of same Makiwa is there any link regarding this I could access?
Nomex has a verrrry short safety span with single later.
Had no thought about the washing of same Makiwa is there any link regarding this I could access?
Last edited by 500e; 8th Jan 2009 at 11:43.
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Had no idea about washing Nomex either! Not got a suit but may one day get a job that requires it!
What do the UK Police and HEMS pilots do for washing there's then? take it they are Nomex?
Great post Makiwa!
What do the UK Police and HEMS pilots do for washing there's then? take it they are Nomex?
Great post Makiwa!
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I found these links that seem to infer that washing with other fabrics and with normal household detergents is satisfactory.
So there you have it...
Maybe the guys at the Safety Equipment Section were trying to ensure their job security, eh?
Anyway, here are 2 of the many links I found:
Landry Instructions for Nomex Workwear
Wash and Care - DuPont Personal Protection
There are many others there too. Just do a search with "Washing and Care of NOMEX" in your search engine and you'll come up with many links to sites.
So there you have it...
Maybe the guys at the Safety Equipment Section were trying to ensure their job security, eh?
Anyway, here are 2 of the many links I found:
Landry Instructions for Nomex Workwear
Wash and Care - DuPont Personal Protection
There are many others there too. Just do a search with "Washing and Care of NOMEX" in your search engine and you'll come up with many links to sites.
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500e
I wear Carbon X under my nomex flight suit in the summer and under my goon suit in the winter. Have done for about two years.
It isn't cheap! and it wears thin around the knees and elbows if you fly as often as I do in the SNS.
I reckon it's still worth it though.
I always wondered what happens to the rubber neck and wrist seals on a goon suit, in a fire. Napalm neckless?
I wear Carbon X under my nomex flight suit in the summer and under my goon suit in the winter. Have done for about two years.
It isn't cheap! and it wears thin around the knees and elbows if you fly as often as I do in the SNS.
I reckon it's still worth it though.
I always wondered what happens to the rubber neck and wrist seals on a goon suit, in a fire. Napalm neckless?
WHat is the total number of pilots flying helicopters worldwide?
Unfortunately for the pilots it's 1 in 8800.
What is the total number of pilots flying helicopters worldwide?
Mickjoebill