SAR: Search & Rescue Ops [Archive Copy]
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Is Twinact perhaps envious of those that gain so much excellent publicity, never mind at risk to themselves at times?
Maybe the Chinook could take on SAR standby duties 24/7 - then maybe he wouldn't be so quick to make pratt and unnecessary comment on a thread there to congratulate those crews on the fine work do daily...
Maybe the Chinook could take on SAR standby duties 24/7 - then maybe he wouldn't be so quick to make pratt and unnecessary comment on a thread there to congratulate those crews on the fine work do daily...
TAC Int Bloke
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No Twinact,
They Weren't just doing what they are paid to to do from their comfy UK bases
it's not the SAR force's primary job to save the civies - main job is downed aircrew
They Weren't just doing what they are paid to to do from their comfy UK bases
it's not the SAR force's primary job to save the civies - main job is downed aircrew
Certainly not criticising the SAR boys, but ref:
I see from my logbook for almost exactly 11 years ago to the day that I went with the rest of our standby Chinook crew on a SAR task from Odiham to 260 nm SW of Cork - MV Christaniki or something like that. We were also used to back up the SAR boys in the FI from time to time.
Sadly, the Cork task was the last time I ever flew with Jon Tapper - greatly missed.
Maybe the Chinook could take on SAR standby duties 24/7
Sadly, the Cork task was the last time I ever flew with Jon Tapper - greatly missed.
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Twinact,
May I be so bold and tell you that during my time, I served on a SAR unit (202 at Lossie) as well as a couple of Nimrod sqns prior to that and I finished my RAF flying last year on E-3's. So without wishing to sound too smug, I do have just a little bit of experience of both sides of this fence.
Firstly I should tell you that you are talking utter boŁŁocks Sir.
'Weren't just doing what they are paid to to do from their comfy UK bases'
Well, yes, to a point I suppose your'e correct. But there is nothing comfy about being woken at 2, 3, 4 o'clock in the morning for SAROPS. I'm not moaning about it. It was the best job I ever did in the RAF, and I wish I could go back to it! But its not particularly 'comfy' is it?
and 'Can we expect to see similar stats from those deployed doing a 'fantastic job' in far flung places' well, I very much hope that we will. There is nobody I know who would question the contribition the Chinook world makes. Indeed, as a fellow Helo operator, I have the utmost respect for them all.
But please don't get shiŁŁy with 'us' SAR boys because of the publicity we are given. It is simply a fact of life that when the world sees a big yellow egg whisk (or grey and Red for the RN) it is usually good news, for some one at least.
And, if you crave such publicity then why not join the SAR fleet?
I'm sure you will love it. But 202 sqn at Lossie at 4 am on a very cold, snowy January morning is definately not 'comfy'
Kind regards to all
The swinging Monkey
'Caruthers, send Twinact a reality pill would you please old boy'
May I be so bold and tell you that during my time, I served on a SAR unit (202 at Lossie) as well as a couple of Nimrod sqns prior to that and I finished my RAF flying last year on E-3's. So without wishing to sound too smug, I do have just a little bit of experience of both sides of this fence.
Firstly I should tell you that you are talking utter boŁŁocks Sir.
'Weren't just doing what they are paid to to do from their comfy UK bases'
Well, yes, to a point I suppose your'e correct. But there is nothing comfy about being woken at 2, 3, 4 o'clock in the morning for SAROPS. I'm not moaning about it. It was the best job I ever did in the RAF, and I wish I could go back to it! But its not particularly 'comfy' is it?
and 'Can we expect to see similar stats from those deployed doing a 'fantastic job' in far flung places' well, I very much hope that we will. There is nobody I know who would question the contribition the Chinook world makes. Indeed, as a fellow Helo operator, I have the utmost respect for them all.
But please don't get shiŁŁy with 'us' SAR boys because of the publicity we are given. It is simply a fact of life that when the world sees a big yellow egg whisk (or grey and Red for the RN) it is usually good news, for some one at least.
And, if you crave such publicity then why not join the SAR fleet?
I'm sure you will love it. But 202 sqn at Lossie at 4 am on a very cold, snowy January morning is definately not 'comfy'
Kind regards to all
The swinging Monkey
'Caruthers, send Twinact a reality pill would you please old boy'
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Twinact,
The reason for this disproportionate amount of publicity for the Yellow budgies is simply because they are extremely good at going out and getting it. I am sure that there are guys out it the great sand pit getting shot at flying possibly more dangerous sorties than the average SAROPS. Its just that they are not so good at (or cannot) getting huge amounts of publicity.
Having said that given the choice of Lossie at 3am or Basra? mmm let me think which would be more comfortable........ Maybe you have a point.
The reason for this disproportionate amount of publicity for the Yellow budgies is simply because they are extremely good at going out and getting it. I am sure that there are guys out it the great sand pit getting shot at flying possibly more dangerous sorties than the average SAROPS. Its just that they are not so good at (or cannot) getting huge amounts of publicity.
Having said that given the choice of Lossie at 3am or Basra? mmm let me think which would be more comfortable........ Maybe you have a point.
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I would like to just add my voice and concur fully with TSW. However, I Think the discussion ref publicity is very iffy ground. On other threads on this site there are people publically declaring their hate for journo's because they exposed a waste of public funds: Pizza delivery, Boys outing to Switzerland etc etc. Then on this thread we have guys discussing how importanmt Publicity is and how the guys in the sand are not getting the publicity they deserve.
What do people think about that? It appears that we only want good publicity and are not happy when the bad stuff comes along but as one chap said..."There is no such thing as bad publicity"
What do people think about that? It appears that we only want good publicity and are not happy when the bad stuff comes along but as one chap said..."There is no such thing as bad publicity"
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SAR forces not deployable? They certainly used to be - there used to be a couple of grey RAF SAR Sea Kings in the Falklands. They may be still there, for all I know.
And well done to all SAR peeps - RAF, RN, UKCG, whatever their aicraft, and wherever they are - for the efforts they make to save lives. I, for one, am very grateful that they exist.
And well done to all SAR peeps - RAF, RN, UKCG, whatever their aicraft, and wherever they are - for the efforts they make to save lives. I, for one, am very grateful that they exist.
As we all know, stats can be used to prove anything (or nothing) depending on the eye of the beholder.
However, as far as standby goes, most of the Armed Forces (and UKCG - and RNLI while we are about it) are on standby 24/7 for something or other, and when required respond in whatever way required.
Re SAROPS
I've done SAR in SH aircraft (and Shacks of course) and SH tasks in SAR. Like T_and_B my crew and I also got over 11 hours strapped to a Chinook West of Cork - only this was 20 years ago - when called out on standby one Sunday. Odiham also generated 2 other non standby crews and aircraft (complete with winches that had not been used before) which were airborne on task within three hours from the initial call. (Air India)
However, as far as standby goes, most of the Armed Forces (and UKCG - and RNLI while we are about it) are on standby 24/7 for something or other, and when required respond in whatever way required.
Re SAROPS
Maybe the Chinook could take on SAR standby duties 24/7
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Guys,
May I just point out that we are all on the same side here! It takes something (prob stupidity!) to fly into a known enemy threat, just as it does night mountain flying in blizzards and strong winds. I think we ought to go down the jast jet de-brief route with this.. ie. 'You were great mate!' ' Nah dude, you were better!'
May I just point out that we are all on the same side here! It takes something (prob stupidity!) to fly into a known enemy threat, just as it does night mountain flying in blizzards and strong winds. I think we ought to go down the jast jet de-brief route with this.. ie. 'You were great mate!' ' Nah dude, you were better!'
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Damn straight up Greeny dude!
Take a bow SAR buddies. Top job!
I only hope we meet again in the bar and not fishing me out of the drink like last time (night wet drills only but still chuffing cold dark and scary!).
Keep it up and may the Schwartz be with you (badly veiled Spaceballs ref.)
Turbine
Take a bow SAR buddies. Top job!
I only hope we meet again in the bar and not fishing me out of the drink like last time (night wet drills only but still chuffing cold dark and scary!).
Keep it up and may the Schwartz be with you (badly veiled Spaceballs ref.)
Turbine
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Seaside Rescue
I've been watching the TV series Seaside Rescue - more for the flying than any other reason.
Firstly, I'd like to say that the guys who fly SAR helos do a fantastic job.
Can someone answer a question for me though? When the winchman is hanging out of the door calling 'forward one', 'left two' etc, is he meaning 'go left two (units)' or is it some sort of countdown, i.e '6 go right, 5 go straight, 4 go left etc etc' ??
Firstly, I'd like to say that the guys who fly SAR helos do a fantastic job.
Can someone answer a question for me though? When the winchman is hanging out of the door calling 'forward one', 'left two' etc, is he meaning 'go left two (units)' or is it some sort of countdown, i.e '6 go right, 5 go straight, 4 go left etc etc' ??
roto pennae veneficus
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It's an arbitrary value, but usually thought of as yards or feet. As an example, if you're hovering over a spot and are being directed to a load/survivor to the front and right of you by 50 yards, the winchman would say something like "forward and right, 2'o clock, 50 yards....20 yards....10 yards....forward and right 1'o clock.....5 yards.....3 yards....easy....easy...steady"
Now the distance might not be 50 yards, may be nearer 100 yards. the important bit for the pilot is the calling of the reduction in distance. As long as the countdown in distance to the load indicates a relative distance to travel, "yards" could be replaced by "bananas" or "light years" - but most people understand yards (or feet, or even metres) so they're the most common.
This is the procedure you'd see in the RN - the RAF / HMCG may use variations on this theme - dropping the "yards" altogether, as you quote in your example, i guess.
Now the distance might not be 50 yards, may be nearer 100 yards. the important bit for the pilot is the calling of the reduction in distance. As long as the countdown in distance to the load indicates a relative distance to travel, "yards" could be replaced by "bananas" or "light years" - but most people understand yards (or feet, or even metres) so they're the most common.
This is the procedure you'd see in the RN - the RAF / HMCG may use variations on this theme - dropping the "yards" altogether, as you quote in your example, i guess.
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Twinact,
Couldn't disagree with your post more mate. Most of my reasons have already been covered by others but think this one through. What would you (or I) think if this thread was congratulating 1310flt or the rest of JHF(I) and a SARBOUY wrote a reply saying we were just doing our jobs from the comfort of a (badly) air conditioned tent?
I accept that your post wasn't meant to be ill mannered but with all that has happened lately it is nice to see some good press.
Couldn't disagree with your post more mate. Most of my reasons have already been covered by others but think this one through. What would you (or I) think if this thread was congratulating 1310flt or the rest of JHF(I) and a SARBOUY wrote a reply saying we were just doing our jobs from the comfort of a (badly) air conditioned tent?
I accept that your post wasn't meant to be ill mannered but with all that has happened lately it is nice to see some good press.
Greenhaven, I am sure you will enjoy the ongoing efforts to 'harmonise' RN and RAF SAR procedures and terminology - it will be interesting to see whose patter ends up being adopted. I think the grand plan is to get mil SAR all singing from the same hymn sheet before we then try to get commonality with HMCG. The cynical would say this is a precursor to privatising all SAR as it will be much easier to do if everyone operates the same way. Personally, since 202 and 22 (RAF SAR Sqns) do things differently with the same aircraft despite common SOPs and orders and Culdrose and Prestwick operate differently, I think the chances of achieving 'Harmonisation' is as likely as the 3 military services ever managing a truly joint/purple establishment without one or other trying to take control all the time.
BTW the SH force is so stretched that the RAF SARforce now covers for some of its UK committments and many SAR boys are doing out of area ground detachments in Basra and elsewhere.
The Falklands Sea Kings are still there and most RAF SAR crews will do a 6 week det there once a year (or thereabouts).
PS most of the 'comfy crewrooms' are in aging, poorly maintained buildings because funding for new buildings is constantly being reviewed and never given.
PPS the military SAR force is operating aging aircraft which (with the exception of the Mk3A Sea King) would not get airworthiness certification by modern criteria because of the failure modes of the autopilot - but no-one will find the money to do anything about it.
BTW the SH force is so stretched that the RAF SARforce now covers for some of its UK committments and many SAR boys are doing out of area ground detachments in Basra and elsewhere.
The Falklands Sea Kings are still there and most RAF SAR crews will do a 6 week det there once a year (or thereabouts).
PS most of the 'comfy crewrooms' are in aging, poorly maintained buildings because funding for new buildings is constantly being reviewed and never given.
PPS the military SAR force is operating aging aircraft which (with the exception of the Mk3A Sea King) would not get airworthiness certification by modern criteria because of the failure modes of the autopilot - but no-one will find the money to do anything about it.
UK Coastguard SAR - Bristow out??
BBC has just announced that the UK Coastguard has declared CHC Scotia as the preferred bidder for the next contract currently being negotiated. Bristows are contesting the bidding process.
