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EAST LONDON TRA

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EAST LONDON TRA

Old 5th Jun 2006, 19:12
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EAST LONDON TRA

The TRA which went up in the early hours of Friday morning and blocks much of east London has been extended and will remain in position until next Monday June 12 0900Z.

However, the confusion caused by the TRA being over H4 has been resolved. Until now, anyone trying to join H4 at Isle of Dogs from the south was being turned away by Thames Radar. This has been rectified and you can now get into H4 from IoD/Blackheath.

The TRA is 5nm radius and goes to 6000ft - it successfully blocks the Lea Valley route, goes to within a mile of Stapleford's ATZ and keeps traffic as far east as the QE2 bridge.

However, planes operating in and out of LCA are exempt.......so it's not about public safety then.
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Old 5th Jun 2006, 20:02
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Now now mate - don't make it sound like us fluffy bunnies who do Thames Radio are in charge!!!!!

Believe me, it would be easier if you could all come in - I spend more time in explaining to aircraft that they are in a TRA, that they can't come in BECAUSE of the TRA than anything else.

Rumour has it that a Mr J Prescott signed off the NOTAM as a diversionary tactic........
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Old 5th Jun 2006, 20:30
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Originally Posted by AlanM
I spend more time in explaining to aircraft that they are in a TRA, that they can't come in BECAUSE of the TRA than anything else.
after listening to thames whilst passing through on the weekend it was worrying how many knew nothing of the tra that had been in since friday and obviously had not read the notams!

Not to mention the weekend was busy with epsom, ascott and biggin hill and you did a grand job at routing everyone around.
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Old 5th Jun 2006, 20:54
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DThanks triple s

I copped the whole lot - and I will be in for Ascot as well. Yipppee.

And to prove that some people clearly NEVER read NOTAMs or flight plan. I had at least half a dozen ask for:

1. "Ascot to BUR" (not available as the LCTR is PPR as per the AIC - with extra Heli routes)

2. To route "via Epsom racecourse" (errrr - what about the ATZ and shed loads of helicopters)

3. "Can you arrange a tranist via the Biggin overhead please?" - yes why not..... after all why not think of calling Biggin themselves??

4. "Transit QE2 - Dome and North" .... aaaagggggghhhhhhh!

5. "I am at the QE2 bridge routeing from LFAT to Stapleford requesting a Radar service" - WTF?

Oh well - added a few callsigns to the list of numpties who should never be allowed any where near CAS.
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Old 5th Jun 2006, 21:06
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Think of us poor souls that did read the NOTAM that said H4 exempt, only to find that the exemption was only for those travelling eastbound (obviously I live in the more dodgy eastern end of the UK...), still, good to chase a few seals around instead!
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Old 5th Jun 2006, 21:13
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I sympathise with AlanM. As a military controller working not too far down the A40, I too have had to put up with several muppets who didn't bother to read notams over the weekend. There ought to be penalties imposed on these people!
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Old 6th Jun 2006, 07:15
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Speaking as a muppet who DID read the NOTAMs and was operating at Epsom, I have to say that I find the whole Epsom ATZ thing to be vastly over-rated.

I counted 10 movements Friday. On Saturday there were 38 helis carrying pax and 3 206s doing pleasure flights between races. There were no multiple shuttle flights as far as I could see.

This needs an ATZ ? This needs new heli routes ? This needs widespread disruption to London airspace ? Epsom is in uncontrolled airspace - a simple unicom and ppr system would suffice.

However, the "Muppet of the Year" award (so far) goes to the R44 owner who landed solo on Saturday at Epsom. Keeping his engine and rotors running, he stepped out of his machine and commenced changing into his morning suit. In the struggle to stop putting both his legs down one side of his trousers (and nearly falling over), he failed to notice man in hi-viz approaching........and the logo on the hi-viz was that familiar CAA sign.

Yep - the inspectors were in. Couldn't hear what was said because the engine was revving its balls off. He had selected "clutch out" whilst still standing outside the helicopter.
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Old 6th Jun 2006, 07:55
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HH - couldn't agree more.

Maybe an ATZ just to control the air over a congested area, but PPR/Extra helilanes etc is a waste of time of Epsom.

The CAA are almost always at these events (or at places like Battersea 2 years back during Silverstone)

The London zone will get more traffic from Silverstone than it did for Espom.... and no PPR /extra Heli routes.

Roll on Ascot eh?
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Old 6th Jun 2006, 19:01
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10 mile diameter exclusion for aircraft for another week but residents are not evacuated,so it is not a public safety issue, why resrict all aircraft if it just the media they dont want snooping?


Is this the greatest restriction on flying activities in UK peacetime?




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Old 7th Jun 2006, 11:38
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Yet again it seems to be a huge over-reaction by the authorities. Let's face it the current Chief Constable of the Met seems (according to the media) to be utterly hopeless, and likes a good crisis for publicities sake.

AlanM; The level of muppetry on special events days never ceases to amaze me, but you should go to the events and see what goes on there. How the controllers keep their humour and standards in the face of stupidity and sometimes downright dangerous behaviour baffles me. Most of us fly to these events every year, we know each other and the procedures and the controllers all know us. Unfortunately we then have the person with no real idea turning up. He/she probably hasn't read or heard the brief and thinks it will all be simple. They then turn up, go the wrong way, or get lost (actually on the FATO at cheltenham last year!!) use the wrong frequencies or callsigns, or all 4.The last 2 Cheltenhams have found me in the hold with several others while the controllers tried to locate and then bring in 2 R44s and an Enstrom. At one event I was shown a flight strip with all the aircraft details on it and the comment W er!!

The Grand Prix this week, hopefully safe and quiet for all. Then into the delights of Ascot (p ed passengers, long days and sunburn) To all the LHR special controllers I now beg for mercy. I'll be the muppet lost on H 11 and 12 during Ascot week.
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Old 8th Jun 2006, 14:59
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surely this is just to keep out the media aircraft ...... (nevermind the media given almost doorstep access on the ground!)..... I have never understood why access cant be granted for pre-arranged times and periods if public saftey is not an issue...... I'll just keep wondering...
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Old 8th Jun 2006, 15:14
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VH - awwww.... don't you get H50 etc on yr GPS?!!?!?

I will be at the Farnborough helipad - but thankfully the need for a face to face pre-brief cuts down on muppetry!

(Oh - and I am also on SVFR for Ascot.... ggggreat!)
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Old 8th Jun 2006, 15:44
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AlanM

GPS? Its' got three of them. I just haven't worked out how to work them yet

See you at the Farnborough brief.
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Old 8th Jun 2006, 16:23
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Creaser - I think the Hemel fire was bigger in that it went up to 20,000ft but same radius.

What I find unsatisfactory about the TRA process is that DAP who vet, process and then issue them as Notams do not, I suspect, have the formal right to question the dimensions.

This TRA, and many previous ones, are quite evidently designed to keep the newsgathering aircraft out. If noise were the issue, and it can be of course, (e.g train crash or building collapse where people are trying to listen for sounds of survivors) then the height limit should be the same as the radius.
If its protection for police/ambulance aircraft then 2miles and 2000ft should be ample.

Hey ho, to whom do we complain about all this? Oh yes, the Police themselves!
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Old 8th Jun 2006, 17:28
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This TRA is causing a big safety problem. The squeeze near Stapleford is simply too tight. Having been around there several times this week, it's more than unsettling with this fine weather to see so many aircraft trying to circumnavigate the TRA. The weather maybe fine and tempting - but the viz isn't. And as most are going for the Stapleford overhead to clear their ATZ......it's just an accident waiting to happen.

Must be a nightmare for Thames Radar.

Really can't understand why a TRA has to actually become a danger.

It's still valid (until Monday) - even though the police appear to be accepting that they aren't finding what they expected.

MBJ - complaints to DAP AUS.
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Old 8th Jun 2006, 21:46
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Had fun with the TRA on wednesday doing a charity flight for the old bill, got as far as london bridge turned around just as they changed runways and would not accept an airport crossing had to go all the way to the QE2 bridge to get back to elstree. but thanks to the guy on special who was very helpful to this muppet.
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Old 9th Jun 2006, 18:57
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TRA Ended today at 1500Z

....till the next one!!
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Old 9th Jun 2006, 23:45
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headsethair

The weather maybe fine and tempting - but the viz isn't.
If you can't handle the viz - don't go flying.


Thames Radar

Well done; you did a great job dealing with the muppets.
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Old 10th Jun 2006, 05:51
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If you can't handle the viz - don't go flying.
It must be the heat. In a rather arrogant way, you've missed the point.
Skidkid, it's not me I'm worried about. It was the 3 FW at the same height over Stapleford within 20 secs and some severe avoidance measures which made us believe that they didn't see us until very late.

I take it you were there ?

Looking at your previous posts here, I'd take a gamble that you are a police pilot. Or observer.

So you'd know a lot about flying around a TRA at 2000ft.......

I'll join the "well done" to Thames - but let's not forget that this TRA trampled into uncontrolled airspace and not all the traffic was obliged to be on radio. Certainly the ones we saw above Stapleford's ATZ were there because they didn't want to be on radio - which is the reason why they were all just over 2000' AGL.
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Old 10th Jun 2006, 18:06
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Originally Posted by Rushes
surely this is just to keep out the media aircraft ......

The police occasionally ask for media blackouts which the media comply.
Why not do this instead of creating TRAs especially at incidents where helicopters do not interfere with public saftey.


Creaser
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