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I find this discussion really pertinant to my position..not instructing yet mind..
I agree with what r22driver was saying, but disagree with trevors cat..
I don't think there's anything wrong with being honest and instructing to hour build, all the newbies have accepted that's the only way to do it - doesn't mean your heart and motivation isn't in it, and you don't want to give the best instruction you can, you might even enjoy it, or be good at it..Agreed there's varying degrees of competancy and natural instructing ability, we're assuming good eggs not bad..
When an insurance company dictates to a commercial operation who they can and can't hire - what option do we have (irrespective of attitude and ability).
For that reason I also understand that I need to accept a 500/1000 hour instructor, if that's how I'm going to do it..
But for all those that disagree and this is what I'm interested in..especially if there is the reported shortage and this is really pertinant to all in the industry..
What's the solution ?
as bellfest says :
If there's no room for mentoring and insurance companies dictate to commercial ops.....what is the way forward ?
I mean if you come fresh faced and wet behind the ears out of instructing - you may be light years behind the guys you're joining - but isn't this where the real education begins ??
I'd love to fly with the grey beards, and like to know from what 170' has said, what the reason they're not doing it is ?
Is it purely financial ?
And if it is - increasing the prices isn't going to relieve any perceived or otherwise pilot shortage - only going to make it worse..
I agree with what r22driver was saying, but disagree with trevors cat..
Thirdly (point b): There are a lot of hour builders who have no experience of commercial ops and instruct, just to build hours. to them I say f~~~ ~ff. Why? because they dont give a f~~~.
When an insurance company dictates to a commercial operation who they can and can't hire - what option do we have (irrespective of attitude and ability).
For that reason I also understand that I need to accept a 500/1000 hour instructor, if that's how I'm going to do it..
But for all those that disagree and this is what I'm interested in..especially if there is the reported shortage and this is really pertinant to all in the industry..
What's the solution ?
as bellfest says :
4)I don't think that there is any room for mentoring in the first 1000 hours, in a flying school or in a commercial operation. As I have stated before, it is much more beneficial to assume you are behind the eight ball and not in front of it. Knighting a fresh pilot with the privelege to teach can place them in front of the eight ball. Having a pre conceived idea of ones ability is not that beneficial in this game.
I mean if you come fresh faced and wet behind the ears out of instructing - you may be light years behind the guys you're joining - but isn't this where the real education begins ??
I'd love to fly with the grey beards, and like to know from what 170' has said, what the reason they're not doing it is ?
Is it purely financial ?
And if it is - increasing the prices isn't going to relieve any perceived or otherwise pilot shortage - only going to make it worse..
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Strop.
Thanks for joining the debate. I see you are once again expressing your intelligent, rational, and relevant point of view. Looking back over your previous posts on other threads I see it is quite a body of work you've got going there. Keep up the good work Goose.
Thanks for joining the debate. I see you are once again expressing your intelligent, rational, and relevant point of view. Looking back over your previous posts on other threads I see it is quite a body of work you've got going there. Keep up the good work Goose.
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Nicely divided into two subjects and I am going to try to link these together.
Bellfest words are worth recalling as are a lot of Paco's and Topendtorques.
Many others have valid comments on both sides of the debate but what is apparent is that those with time worry that the 200hr instructor is not as capable as a 2000hr pilot and those with 200hrs cannot understand why not? They operate under the protection of the regulatory authority that pokes the 'wings' into their chests and pushes them out the door. Blind leading the blind and feeling empowered to boot. 85% of flying is not about hands and feet, seat of the pants feel but really important extras like:
See that cloud, that tell you that is about to happen…
When you are heavy, avoid this…
Feel that vibration, that’s called a 2 per, tells you this is wrong…
Watch this guy approaching here, bet he forgets too…
See over here, make sure you have a backdoor to escape too…
Where is the wind coming from now? OK, here is another trick…
See that there? I once saw one of those come loose…
And a hundred odd more.
I too do not advocate hangar sweeping as a necessary requirement to producing a good pilot. As it has been said; it does teach you a lot about aircraft and that 'round thing near the tube that makes all the noise..." and for that it has plenty of validity. Unfortunately there is not necessarily a progression from this lowly servitude and a LOT abuse by individuals and the industry. I did the hangar and loader time and have varying sad and good stories about this. What occasionally happens in this situation is a lack of progress for the hangar rat.
We need a more formalised process of advancement into the industry for new pilots. The 'unregulated' approach is working but it would be better for individuals, the families and the aviation community if there was a more structured career path.
Ideally there should be an apprentiship starting pilots in the hangar. The intention being to move them to the 'other' seat during commercial operations therefore enabling them to watch more experienced pilots from inside the aircraft. Not all jobs can accommodate this but I wonder why it could not happen 50% of the time in jobs like Agwork, Logging, or resource support. Big problem is who will pay for all this. But why not? The same system works for plumber, mechanics and electricians.
It happens already in its own way with guys "slaving" and doing that for free or government support or wages the equivalent of the benefit. It's nothing to be proud of but it is an investment of your time into a career. Everyone needs a beginning and with insurance rates and limited opportunities in the industry it's never going to be easier.
Hence the popular route of buying a job via an instructor rating – "I don't have the strength to go through the BS to get this overrated job, so I will book it up to the bank, government loan or work 3 more jobs"
Your problem solved but more problems with degredation of training quality for our industry. Sorry 200hr instructor sitting in the other seat not flying: you cannot teach what you are not doing or do not know.
A scheme might work or it may not. It's merely an idea and the only one that I have. Trying to find a regulatory body to commence this idea would be harder than pulling the teeth on a croc guarding her eggs and the backlash from the training schools losing their cheap labour... priceless.
POSSIBLE structure?
CPL graduate apprentice – 1st year apprentice pilot (hanger slave, engineering assistant) – 2nd year apprentice (marketing, field work, ferry flights)
3rd year senior apprentice (ferry pilot, maintenance flights, tourism and photography, intro to commercial work, commence ATPL studies or fulltime Co-pilot position)
4th year – Final year senior apprentice (commercial work, ATPL subject completed)
Post this and with 1000hrs PIC you can voluntarily start Instructor Training.
What do you think?
Bellfest words are worth recalling as are a lot of Paco's and Topendtorques.
Many others have valid comments on both sides of the debate but what is apparent is that those with time worry that the 200hr instructor is not as capable as a 2000hr pilot and those with 200hrs cannot understand why not? They operate under the protection of the regulatory authority that pokes the 'wings' into their chests and pushes them out the door. Blind leading the blind and feeling empowered to boot. 85% of flying is not about hands and feet, seat of the pants feel but really important extras like:
See that cloud, that tell you that is about to happen…
When you are heavy, avoid this…
Feel that vibration, that’s called a 2 per, tells you this is wrong…
Watch this guy approaching here, bet he forgets too…
See over here, make sure you have a backdoor to escape too…
Where is the wind coming from now? OK, here is another trick…
See that there? I once saw one of those come loose…
And a hundred odd more.
I too do not advocate hangar sweeping as a necessary requirement to producing a good pilot. As it has been said; it does teach you a lot about aircraft and that 'round thing near the tube that makes all the noise..." and for that it has plenty of validity. Unfortunately there is not necessarily a progression from this lowly servitude and a LOT abuse by individuals and the industry. I did the hangar and loader time and have varying sad and good stories about this. What occasionally happens in this situation is a lack of progress for the hangar rat.
We need a more formalised process of advancement into the industry for new pilots. The 'unregulated' approach is working but it would be better for individuals, the families and the aviation community if there was a more structured career path.
Ideally there should be an apprentiship starting pilots in the hangar. The intention being to move them to the 'other' seat during commercial operations therefore enabling them to watch more experienced pilots from inside the aircraft. Not all jobs can accommodate this but I wonder why it could not happen 50% of the time in jobs like Agwork, Logging, or resource support. Big problem is who will pay for all this. But why not? The same system works for plumber, mechanics and electricians.
It happens already in its own way with guys "slaving" and doing that for free or government support or wages the equivalent of the benefit. It's nothing to be proud of but it is an investment of your time into a career. Everyone needs a beginning and with insurance rates and limited opportunities in the industry it's never going to be easier.
Hence the popular route of buying a job via an instructor rating – "I don't have the strength to go through the BS to get this overrated job, so I will book it up to the bank, government loan or work 3 more jobs"
Your problem solved but more problems with degredation of training quality for our industry. Sorry 200hr instructor sitting in the other seat not flying: you cannot teach what you are not doing or do not know.
A scheme might work or it may not. It's merely an idea and the only one that I have. Trying to find a regulatory body to commence this idea would be harder than pulling the teeth on a croc guarding her eggs and the backlash from the training schools losing their cheap labour... priceless.
POSSIBLE structure?
CPL graduate apprentice – 1st year apprentice pilot (hanger slave, engineering assistant) – 2nd year apprentice (marketing, field work, ferry flights)
3rd year senior apprentice (ferry pilot, maintenance flights, tourism and photography, intro to commercial work, commence ATPL studies or fulltime Co-pilot position)
4th year – Final year senior apprentice (commercial work, ATPL subject completed)
Post this and with 1000hrs PIC you can voluntarily start Instructor Training.
What do you think?
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Chairmanofthebored
The sugestion has merit, although the time frames would have to be ironed out.
As you said; "Trying to find a regulatory body to commence this idea would be harder than pulling the teeth on a croc guarding her eggs and the backlash from the training schools losing their cheap labour... priceless"
These points would be major hurdles.
Another problem to solve is that of the mature apprentice. How many people flying have a past life; plumber, electrician, mechanic or post graduate student?
It can be sorted, but the industry and the government have to be willing to sort it.
Maybe a 4 year apprenticeship is too much. Maybe a 2 year internship (after time spent for exams & flight training) would be more practicable with the associated goverment support to assist the operator in wages & training etc much the such as an apprentice is guided.
Food for thought!
The sugestion has merit, although the time frames would have to be ironed out.
As you said; "Trying to find a regulatory body to commence this idea would be harder than pulling the teeth on a croc guarding her eggs and the backlash from the training schools losing their cheap labour... priceless"
These points would be major hurdles.
Another problem to solve is that of the mature apprentice. How many people flying have a past life; plumber, electrician, mechanic or post graduate student?
It can be sorted, but the industry and the government have to be willing to sort it.
Maybe a 4 year apprenticeship is too much. Maybe a 2 year internship (after time spent for exams & flight training) would be more practicable with the associated goverment support to assist the operator in wages & training etc much the such as an apprentice is guided.
Food for thought!
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Originally Posted by Chairmanofthebored
Trying to find a regulatory body to commence this idea would be harder than pulling the teeth on a croc guarding her eggs and the backlash from the training schools losing their cheap labour... priceless.
POSSIBLE structure?
CPL graduate apprentice – 1st year apprentice pilot (hanger slave, engineering assistant) – 2nd year apprentice (marketing, field work, ferry flights)
3rd year senior apprentice (ferry pilot, maintenance flights, tourism and photography, intro to commercial work, commence ATPL studies or fulltime Co-pilot position)
4th year – Final year senior apprentice (commercial work, ATPL subject completed)
Post this and with 1000hrs PIC you can voluntarily start Instructor Training.
What do you think?
POSSIBLE structure?
CPL graduate apprentice – 1st year apprentice pilot (hanger slave, engineering assistant) – 2nd year apprentice (marketing, field work, ferry flights)
3rd year senior apprentice (ferry pilot, maintenance flights, tourism and photography, intro to commercial work, commence ATPL studies or fulltime Co-pilot position)
4th year – Final year senior apprentice (commercial work, ATPL subject completed)
Post this and with 1000hrs PIC you can voluntarily start Instructor Training.
What do you think?
Hmm, and suppose nobody "volunteers" to instruct - after all, why would they? Well, at least we'd get our for-real pilot shortage at last!
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I can't see many people willing to spend $50,000 on their training and then sweep floors and stuff envelopes and not fly for two years.
the apprentiship idea is nice, but i think more simple flying in the first year is needed (intro rides, simple photo flights, ferry flights etc)
the apprentiship idea is nice, but i think more simple flying in the first year is needed (intro rides, simple photo flights, ferry flights etc)
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Those people not willing to spend $50K to sweep floors are everywhere. You see them at the unemployment office, back at their IT job or down at Macca's. Not willing to sweep means not willing to fly in most parts of the world. I guess you are saying if someone offered you a job leading up to flying but entailing sweeping that you would say NO?
Bit daft really.
Also, little do you know that the 'easy' flying you mentioned is often fraught with danger. Get BlenderPilot to show you a video he starred in regarding LTE and photo work. You wouldn't believe how many new pilots come out of a licence with a fresh commercial and B206 endorsement not understanding how to fly the 206 or any of the Bell products actually.
Bit daft really.
Also, little do you know that the 'easy' flying you mentioned is often fraught with danger. Get BlenderPilot to show you a video he starred in regarding LTE and photo work. You wouldn't believe how many new pilots come out of a licence with a fresh commercial and B206 endorsement not understanding how to fly the 206 or any of the Bell products actually.
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Get BlenderPilot to show you a video he starred in regarding LTE and photo work. You wouldn't believe how many new pilots come out of a licence with a fresh commercial and B206 endorsement not understanding how to fly the 206 or any of the Bell products actually.
COTB, nowhere in your 4 year plan do I see 'flight training'. Is this embedded or is your plan supposed to be after that. How does Joe Average who simply wants to be a weekend warrior in his own aircraft get his ticket? The cost of flight training would have to come down to nearly nothing to make this career path inviting.
It could be a plan for an university 'Aviation' course, though. You'd have to lose the 'Hangar slave' bit though!
No, I'd say that the plan is not really realistic.
As Flingwing mentions, prove that there actually is a problem. And I mean more than simply people on this list saying, "When I was a lad....." or "Tssk, the kids of today...."
cl12p2s
Last edited by cl12pv2s; 23rd May 2006 at 08:35. Reason: New Information
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COTB has at least put forward a plan. I don't agree with it as I think 4 years without a decent amount of flying & continuation training is a must. But why be rude about his idea?
In the real world even many chief pilots & base managers sweep the hangar floor & wash the helicopter, so why shouldn't a newbie assist?
Obviously the best way to learn is through the military as you get paid well to learn, get good instruction & general grounding & come out with enough experience to get a job, even if not always a good one. Again obviously not everyone can get selected for the military or perhaps not get through the training or just simply don't like the idea of being in the military even for a short while.
This means as a civilian, you now have to pay your way & that will cost a lot with possibly no job at the end. So what's the answer? If the answer was easy, there wouldn't be this current problem & general heart ache but no small or perhaps biggish company can afford to carry you while you learn as they do need to make some revenue.
I have offered my services to help a new pilot just for my out of pocket expenses to help him learn his trade & hopefully stay alive! It's surprising how many new pilots have said they have a license thanks & don't need any help. Oh well, you can't please everyone!
In the real world even many chief pilots & base managers sweep the hangar floor & wash the helicopter, so why shouldn't a newbie assist?
Obviously the best way to learn is through the military as you get paid well to learn, get good instruction & general grounding & come out with enough experience to get a job, even if not always a good one. Again obviously not everyone can get selected for the military or perhaps not get through the training or just simply don't like the idea of being in the military even for a short while.
This means as a civilian, you now have to pay your way & that will cost a lot with possibly no job at the end. So what's the answer? If the answer was easy, there wouldn't be this current problem & general heart ache but no small or perhaps biggish company can afford to carry you while you learn as they do need to make some revenue.
I have offered my services to help a new pilot just for my out of pocket expenses to help him learn his trade & hopefully stay alive! It's surprising how many new pilots have said they have a license thanks & don't need any help. Oh well, you can't please everyone!
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stay away from the medicine cupboard
Originally Posted by Chairmanofthebored
Those people not willing to spend $50K to sweep floors are everywhere. You see them at the unemployment office, back at their IT job or down at Macca's. Not willing to sweep means not willing to fly in most parts of the world. I guess you are saying if someone offered you a job leading up to flying but entailing sweeping that you would say NO?
Bit daft really.
Bit daft really.
I sweep, amongst the many other jack-of-all-trades/master-of-none that I have to do in order to get a foot in the door somewhere.
doesn't mean I enjoy being taken for granted & all in order to pluck a few precious hours here & there, whilst the industry looks down it's nose at the 'slave-labour-scum', & does nothing but bitch about the lack of experience.
doesn't matter how high you lift your nose - your arse still smells just as bad as mine.
"we the willing, lead by the unknowing, have been doing so much, with so little, for so long, we are now expected to do the impossible with nothing"
live in the gutter, get treated like an animal, get absolutely no respect, or renumeration, or future.
but make sure your on time & presentable!
& we'll keep dangling a flight in front of your face (maybe).
don't foget - not every 'new' pilot is a pimply faced youth with no life experience, some of us are mature, skilled & successful professionals (in other fields) hence we are able to afford the luxury of flight training, that we have made it this far, is by no means been an easy ride, I had to work my arse off for every cent I brought home, we come to the industry not with our hat in our hand but with skills, & traits that can be applied in the same manner - given the opportunity to do so.
Last edited by gadgetguru; 23rd May 2006 at 08:26.
In defence of Blender pilot (and I may be wrong but can't be bothered trawling through to check) I think what you'll find (CL and CoTB) is that he was being filmed in a 206 etc by a cameraman in an R44, and the footage was from that aircraft as it lost control; not anything to do with Blender losing control.
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The broom guy.
There is nothing wrong with sweeping a broom. The main problem is when the hangar rat hangs around WITHOUT PAY, hoping to get some flying.
The hangar rat will always be doing **** jobs. No problem there. Get chemical burns from stripping back helicopters, blisters from sweeping, filthy from emptying bins, etc. It's what a hangar rat does.
BUT because of the level of prostitution in this industry it's all done for free! The hangar rat is expected to roll up to an outfit, day after day, and put in. Hoping to get some flying at some stage. A ferry here, a short charter there. And the industry camoflagues this prostitution with the catch cry "You have to be in the right place at the right time!" Meaning, hang around and you'll get a fly, just make yourself useful while you're at it.
Thanks, but no thanks. I done that and found that I have more self-esteme than that. It's not pride, I'm happy to work, knowing that a helicopter will not fly 24-7. It has to sit still sometimes. But I became a pilot, not an un-paid cleaner.
I don't expect that the world owes me a living, just because I bought a licence. No pilot should believe that! But I do believe that everyone needs to make the best of any given opportunity. That includes investing for the future. The future of aviation.
I never realised until now how much better our countries would be doing if the charity work done by low hour pilots for helicopter companies actually went to the needy!
The hangar rat will always be doing **** jobs. No problem there. Get chemical burns from stripping back helicopters, blisters from sweeping, filthy from emptying bins, etc. It's what a hangar rat does.
BUT because of the level of prostitution in this industry it's all done for free! The hangar rat is expected to roll up to an outfit, day after day, and put in. Hoping to get some flying at some stage. A ferry here, a short charter there. And the industry camoflagues this prostitution with the catch cry "You have to be in the right place at the right time!" Meaning, hang around and you'll get a fly, just make yourself useful while you're at it.
Thanks, but no thanks. I done that and found that I have more self-esteme than that. It's not pride, I'm happy to work, knowing that a helicopter will not fly 24-7. It has to sit still sometimes. But I became a pilot, not an un-paid cleaner.
I don't expect that the world owes me a living, just because I bought a licence. No pilot should believe that! But I do believe that everyone needs to make the best of any given opportunity. That includes investing for the future. The future of aviation.
I never realised until now how much better our countries would be doing if the charity work done by low hour pilots for helicopter companies actually went to the needy!
The "hanger rat" system can certainly get abused. This is another point that I may not have made my point too clear on.
If someone has gone out and paid as much money as it is these days then they deserve to fly.
Grounding a fresh pilot will do nothing to their inexperience and only add to their lack of hands on capability. This will only lengthen the period of not being able to utilise your latest recruit as a flying pilot.
It is the companies responsibility to not put on a new inexperienced pilot unless they have the intention of building his experience (hours) from the outset. They should at least look forward to a couple of hundred hours in the first twelve months. Being a "hanger rat" ( a term I personally am not too keen on) only means that when you are not in the seat being trained you are doing things in and around the hangar that needs to be done.
Every individual will have their own opinion on this and every company will have their own expectations. Personally I have a lot more time for those that do things without being asked. Sweeping a floor is not degrading nor should it be seen as a total waste of time and energy. It is cooperating in an environment in which you will benefit a great deal from by becoming an integral part of. There is a lot of stuff to take in, a lot of stuff to observe and learn by looking over shoulders, standing in on conversations and observing what is the heartbeat of the entire operation.
My dad once told me "If you can't do the dishes you shouldn't well
in be eating". I worked my ass off, I did so much more than I had to, at times it really pissed me off but I got a good return.
A good tip for all you young fellas too is to realise that a companies maintenance facility is the most vital and limiting factor of all. Such an obvious fact that goes unrealised by so many industry vets
.
In respect to the companies, well, unfortunately to a certain degree our industry is flypaper for wits. There are those that will abuse the fresh pilot and they are the same ones that don't do the experienced ones too many favours either. There is a lot of directors in this industry (and many others) that can not do sums unless it has numbers. That is to say that they may be great accountants (who seem to be the blow flies by the way) that are incapable of factoring such equations as morale, job satisfaction and most of all staff's remuneration satisfaction into their company returns. Yet it seems so simple
. It does make it very satisfying to eventually work for the good guys though
To sum it up no plan/apprenticeship/traineeship should be considered without flying being a part of it from the start. After all you are pilots and you do deserve to fly. The more thorough your induction is the better for you right? Don't disregard a bit of manual labour because of your pride, soak up the environment and be a helping hand, another overlooked benefit
To the blatant abusers, I would find it quite satisfying if your ears turned into emus and kicked yourin head in
If someone has gone out and paid as much money as it is these days then they deserve to fly.
Grounding a fresh pilot will do nothing to their inexperience and only add to their lack of hands on capability. This will only lengthen the period of not being able to utilise your latest recruit as a flying pilot.
It is the companies responsibility to not put on a new inexperienced pilot unless they have the intention of building his experience (hours) from the outset. They should at least look forward to a couple of hundred hours in the first twelve months. Being a "hanger rat" ( a term I personally am not too keen on) only means that when you are not in the seat being trained you are doing things in and around the hangar that needs to be done.
Every individual will have their own opinion on this and every company will have their own expectations. Personally I have a lot more time for those that do things without being asked. Sweeping a floor is not degrading nor should it be seen as a total waste of time and energy. It is cooperating in an environment in which you will benefit a great deal from by becoming an integral part of. There is a lot of stuff to take in, a lot of stuff to observe and learn by looking over shoulders, standing in on conversations and observing what is the heartbeat of the entire operation.
My dad once told me "If you can't do the dishes you shouldn't well
in be eating". I worked my ass off, I did so much more than I had to, at times it really pissed me off but I got a good return.A good tip for all you young fellas too is to realise that a companies maintenance facility is the most vital and limiting factor of all. Such an obvious fact that goes unrealised by so many industry vets
.In respect to the companies, well, unfortunately to a certain degree our industry is flypaper for
wits. There are those that will abuse the fresh pilot and they are the same ones that don't do the experienced ones too many favours either. There is a lot of directors in this industry (and many others) that can not do sums unless it has numbers. That is to say that they may be great accountants (who seem to be the blow flies by the way) that are incapable of factoring such equations as morale, job satisfaction and most of all staff's remuneration satisfaction into their company returns. Yet it seems so simple . It does make it very satisfying to eventually work for the good guys though To sum it up no plan/apprenticeship/traineeship should be considered without flying being a part of it from the start. After all you are pilots and you do deserve to fly. The more thorough your induction is the better for you right? Don't disregard a bit of manual labour because of your pride, soak up the environment and be a helping hand, another overlooked benefit
To the blatant abusers, I would find it quite satisfying if your ears turned into emus and kicked your
in head in
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212man got it right and I worded it poorly. BP starred in an LTE movie as he was being filmed by an aircraft for a while...until it ended up in LTE. Blenderpilot is a consumate pro and I enjoy conversing with him. No malice intended.
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Soooo, is there a general consensus on what brand new CPL's should do, or shall I just climb back into the primordial slime from where I came and go back to my day job? Trevors Cat, pass the lager.......
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ive in the gutter, get treated like an animal, get absolutely no respect, or renumeration, or future.
but make sure your on time & presentable!
& we'll keep dangling a flight in front of your face (maybe).
but make sure your on time & presentable!
& we'll keep dangling a flight in front of your face (maybe).
"What, and give up a job in AVIATION?
The reason this system is in place is because new pilots are willing to put up with it, when they know, or should know, that's the way it is, before they ever start training. If you don't want to starve for years, then get a real job, not a pilot's license. It may not be right, but that's the way it is, and it's not likely to change in our lifetime.
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Na. I would try and exploit him/her anyway. If they where retarded enough to take it, then I would continue to do it. They would make a fine unpaid cleaner/coffee maker. Not so sure about a pilot though.
I think it is crazy that people (experienced pilots no less) are suggesting that people would benefit from cleaning floors for a year in a hangar. All because they had to do it. The reason they had to do it was because they are retards, which is exactly the reason that they are suggesting it to other pilots now.
Never in my career, even as a low time pilot would I ever have even considered such a thing. Nor would I have expected any other self respecting individual to consider it either.
What hope do we have in this industry to be seen as professionals when we have experienced pilots advising new qualified talent to sweep the floors.
Muppets!
I think it is crazy that people (experienced pilots no less) are suggesting that people would benefit from cleaning floors for a year in a hangar. All because they had to do it. The reason they had to do it was because they are retards, which is exactly the reason that they are suggesting it to other pilots now.
Never in my career, even as a low time pilot would I ever have even considered such a thing. Nor would I have expected any other self respecting individual to consider it either.
What hope do we have in this industry to be seen as professionals when we have experienced pilots advising new qualified talent to sweep the floors.
Muppets!