Hiller
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Happy daze
**** Hiller !
The truth is the Hiller is a man's helicopter and any wimp pilots din't last 5 minutes on it .
I flew the Hiller for 10 years, cropspraying in the summer and power line inspection,underslinging and forestry in the winter. It was poorly paid, involved long periods away from home and conditions in a Scottish forest in the depths of winter were spartan to say the least.
Despite all this they were some of the happiest times of my 35 yr. carreer.
My first full cropspraying season was on the Hiller 12C G-ARTG in 1973 it had wooden blades and 210HP Franklin engine. It was underpowered with a full load of 35GALS of chemical, I flew 260 hours in 10 weeks and the engine never missed a beat.
After that I flew the 12E ,quite a different beast 305 HP Lycoming and it would lift 70 GALS of chemical no problem. Stripped of spraygear it would lift 1,000 lbs. on the hook although 700-800 lbs. was a more realistic load with about an hours fuel. Slinging wet concrete it was possible to move well over 10 tons an hour.
The Lycoming suffered under such punishment and rarely lasted more than 800 hours despite it,s supposed life of 1200 hours. Typical engine problems would include, valve seats coming out, piston rings breaking up and conrods breaking: to name but a few.
Yes it was slow (it was never meant to be fast 84 kts VNE) yes it was not the smoothest flyer around but, at 0500 on a summers morning in the the field, climb in, pump on, 5 pumps of the throttle, magneto switch to right mag, crank the starter and feel 10 ltrs of unsilenced engine blast into life shattering the early morning calm. Oh what joy!
**** helicopter? I think not.
The truth is the Hiller is a man's helicopter and any wimp pilots din't last 5 minutes on it .
I flew the Hiller for 10 years, cropspraying in the summer and power line inspection,underslinging and forestry in the winter. It was poorly paid, involved long periods away from home and conditions in a Scottish forest in the depths of winter were spartan to say the least.
Despite all this they were some of the happiest times of my 35 yr. carreer.
My first full cropspraying season was on the Hiller 12C G-ARTG in 1973 it had wooden blades and 210HP Franklin engine. It was underpowered with a full load of 35GALS of chemical, I flew 260 hours in 10 weeks and the engine never missed a beat.
After that I flew the 12E ,quite a different beast 305 HP Lycoming and it would lift 70 GALS of chemical no problem. Stripped of spraygear it would lift 1,000 lbs. on the hook although 700-800 lbs. was a more realistic load with about an hours fuel. Slinging wet concrete it was possible to move well over 10 tons an hour.
The Lycoming suffered under such punishment and rarely lasted more than 800 hours despite it,s supposed life of 1200 hours. Typical engine problems would include, valve seats coming out, piston rings breaking up and conrods breaking: to name but a few.
Yes it was slow (it was never meant to be fast 84 kts VNE) yes it was not the smoothest flyer around but, at 0500 on a summers morning in the the field, climb in, pump on, 5 pumps of the throttle, magneto switch to right mag, crank the starter and feel 10 ltrs of unsilenced engine blast into life shattering the early morning calm. Oh what joy!
**** helicopter? I think not.
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Originally Posted by topendtorque
Ride A donkey?
most certainly you will, one of us anzacs will help find you one, but hey, Simpson won't be your plumage when done.
TET
most certainly you will, one of us anzacs will help find you one, but hey, Simpson won't be your plumage when done.
TET
Join Date: May 2001
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my 12c used to vibrate a lot when i got it but after a day with the tracking gear it flew fantastic
iam trying to put a deal together to buy a 12e from the states that one has the lyc engine anyone flown both and give me a balanced view
edit
if i had read the post above i would have seen a balanced view but is there any more
iam trying to put a deal together to buy a 12e from the states that one has the lyc engine anyone flown both and give me a balanced view
edit
if i had read the post above i would have seen a balanced view but is there any more
Join Date: Apr 2006
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MD600 why not pay a visit to Hields Aviation at Sherburn in Elmet and try there 12e before going to all the trouble of importing, then make your own mind up.
http://www.hieldsaviation.co.uk/html/11_fleet.html
Be interested to know your thoughts if you do
http://www.hieldsaviation.co.uk/html/11_fleet.html
Be interested to know your thoughts if you do
Join Date: Feb 2005
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007helicopter
No probs, I was referring to the illustrious and perhaps foul mouthed AHM of the previous post, and I figured seeing as how there aren’t many donkeys in NZ that we could join forces to find him one.
I know where there are thousands, I‘ll supply one for this rude dude and when he fails to ride it his epitaph will be of much lower substance than the hero Simpson, of Anzac fame, or the Hiller machine and its inventor, the object of the thread.
I too have a respect for the Hiller but am quite ready to join battle and demonstrate the old bias toward the 47,---lift a 1000lb eh? P*** all over that with a good 3B1 etc, not to mention the 3B2A an extra 150lbs if I remember rightly as long as it was on the hook.
The best part of the Hiller was the brilliance of the designer when he eliminated the major 47 problem of dirty oil recirculation through the xmon, by having separate oil systems for donk and xmon.
The flex eng-xmon coupling was also much better, eliminating most of the seventh order vibes which often used to result in two crankshafts, as on the 540 equipped 47-G4 and 4A. No excuses though, the warnings for RPM avoidance where it used to happen were in the Lyc manual in black and white.
But mate, the 47 blades --- much more efficient that the Hiller or the 206 blade for that matter, at altitude.
And the straight up straight pipes hooked onto a VO540 in a J model which I had once, man – did they bark - horn fodder with a capital H!!!
No probs, I was referring to the illustrious and perhaps foul mouthed AHM of the previous post, and I figured seeing as how there aren’t many donkeys in NZ that we could join forces to find him one.
I know where there are thousands, I‘ll supply one for this rude dude and when he fails to ride it his epitaph will be of much lower substance than the hero Simpson, of Anzac fame, or the Hiller machine and its inventor, the object of the thread.
I too have a respect for the Hiller but am quite ready to join battle and demonstrate the old bias toward the 47,---lift a 1000lb eh? P*** all over that with a good 3B1 etc, not to mention the 3B2A an extra 150lbs if I remember rightly as long as it was on the hook.
The best part of the Hiller was the brilliance of the designer when he eliminated the major 47 problem of dirty oil recirculation through the xmon, by having separate oil systems for donk and xmon.
The flex eng-xmon coupling was also much better, eliminating most of the seventh order vibes which often used to result in two crankshafts, as on the 540 equipped 47-G4 and 4A. No excuses though, the warnings for RPM avoidance where it used to happen were in the Lyc manual in black and white.
But mate, the 47 blades --- much more efficient that the Hiller or the 206 blade for that matter, at altitude.
And the straight up straight pipes hooked onto a VO540 in a J model which I had once, man – did they bark - horn fodder with a capital H!!!
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TET thanks get it now, would not dream of doing battle as no bias for me just happens to be what I know and fly. Never actually flown a bell 47 but intend to when I get the chance...
Going back to Mr S Hiller I still can not imagine the vision and determination required to start a successful company producing helicopter's in 1940's, let alone produce a machine that is still quite widely used today.
Going back to Mr S Hiller I still can not imagine the vision and determination required to start a successful company producing helicopter's in 1940's, let alone produce a machine that is still quite widely used today.
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Steve - ok I dont know much about them, not aware of any other 12e's in the uk other than potential rebuilds, have you made any progress in your thinking yet?
By the way if any enthusiasts wanted to fly in the Hiller 12c I am quite happy to oblige - subject to a healthy donation to kent air ambulance. Based at EGTO Rochester.
By the way if any enthusiasts wanted to fly in the Hiller 12c I am quite happy to oblige - subject to a healthy donation to kent air ambulance. Based at EGTO Rochester.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: oak harbor Wa.
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Hiller UH-12B
Thinking of buying a UH-12B not sure if thease are getting a little old and hard to maintain. Would like some input as to pro and con of thease old helicopters.
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Novi Sad,Serbia
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Need Hiller Uh12e
I wat to buy used Hiller Uh12e!!
If anybody knows any offers let me know on my mail [email protected]!
I am in Serbia,so it would be good if offer is from Europe...
Thanks...
If anybody knows any offers let me know on my mail [email protected]!
I am in Serbia,so it would be good if offer is from Europe...
Thanks...
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Join Date: Oct 2007
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Hiller's are great!
We have owned and operated many hillers throughout the last 25 years, maily E models and one soloy conversion.The soloy would easily lift its own weight and more it may be a bit slower than the 206 but it's a far better work horse.
We still maintain Hiller's mainly E and C models in the UK ( well there is only the one E flying at the moment ) If you have all the right contacts there isnt much you cant get for them.
The art in the Hiller is to start from the ground up and set all things correctly, take your time setting up the head and blade assy before you even install it to the aircraft then a good set up on tracking and it will fly nice and smooth.
anyone needs any more info send me a pm.
We still maintain Hiller's mainly E and C models in the UK ( well there is only the one E flying at the moment ) If you have all the right contacts there isnt much you cant get for them.
The art in the Hiller is to start from the ground up and set all things correctly, take your time setting up the head and blade assy before you even install it to the aircraft then a good set up on tracking and it will fly nice and smooth.
anyone needs any more info send me a pm.
Join Date: Aug 2004
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12c/e/e4
Just read this thread. I had the "privilege"? of flying the 12C in Vermont, wooden blades and all; the 12E throughout the eastern USA, in PNG and Irian Jaya , and the 12E4 in the Philippines. Most operations were above 5000' which accentuated any play in the collective rod end train resulting in mucho vibration, all the time. Even with a well tracked aircraft at sea level, when it was operating at max gross and above 5000' it was a pig. Vibration was enough to make your right wrist numb from the cyclic feedback.
Collective drops were frightening. Hit a gust and the darn thing could rise an inch in response and then plummet to the lower stop. It is disconcerting to have the dust and pencil stub rise up before your eyes in the middle of an ear piercing shriek from the student being endorsed.One soon learned to never remove one's left leg from the collective if changing hands on the cyclic for radio switching or indicating some scenic point of interest.
I have a photo of the altimeter somewhere taken by the pax topping out at 13,400' over the Markham valley in a 12E with what was called "high altitude pistons" trying to beat the rising clouds. A Hiller cyclic at that altitude feels like a stick in a bucket of grease, with about the same effect.
Had one vibration damper depart in flight, and the machine got smoother!
Then we got the "Phoenix conversion", which had the "turbo normalised" VO540 . Landing at 11,000' was a blast. About 1/8" throttle rotation produced about 5" of manifold pressure at the hover. You can imagine the directional control.
Flew it on pontoons doing crocodile survey, landing and shutting down adjacent to the nests while intrepid researchers opened the nest, weighed and measured the eggs ...all the while hoping the mama salty wouldn't contest the turf while we were there.
One aircraft (not with me) had a stabiliser bar and paddle depart in flight at 500". He got it down but was cross eyed for some years afterward from the vibration on the way down.
All in all, a great work horse, and fine low level but above 5000' one of the roughest, most unpleasant helicopters I have ever had the misfortune to fly.
It was a happy day to put the Hiller behind me!
Collective drops were frightening. Hit a gust and the darn thing could rise an inch in response and then plummet to the lower stop. It is disconcerting to have the dust and pencil stub rise up before your eyes in the middle of an ear piercing shriek from the student being endorsed.One soon learned to never remove one's left leg from the collective if changing hands on the cyclic for radio switching or indicating some scenic point of interest.
I have a photo of the altimeter somewhere taken by the pax topping out at 13,400' over the Markham valley in a 12E with what was called "high altitude pistons" trying to beat the rising clouds. A Hiller cyclic at that altitude feels like a stick in a bucket of grease, with about the same effect.
Had one vibration damper depart in flight, and the machine got smoother!
Then we got the "Phoenix conversion", which had the "turbo normalised" VO540 . Landing at 11,000' was a blast. About 1/8" throttle rotation produced about 5" of manifold pressure at the hover. You can imagine the directional control.
Flew it on pontoons doing crocodile survey, landing and shutting down adjacent to the nests while intrepid researchers opened the nest, weighed and measured the eggs ...all the while hoping the mama salty wouldn't contest the turf while we were there.
One aircraft (not with me) had a stabiliser bar and paddle depart in flight at 500". He got it down but was cross eyed for some years afterward from the vibration on the way down.
All in all, a great work horse, and fine low level but above 5000' one of the roughest, most unpleasant helicopters I have ever had the misfortune to fly.
It was a happy day to put the Hiller behind me!
Heli anorak request.
I am currently researching the markings applied to the past fleet of Irish Helicopters Ltd. Does anyone have a photo of Hiller UH-12E EI-AKT operated by Irish Helicopters Ltd between June 1959 and December 1960? Apparently it took part in a trial with the Commissioners of Irish Lights for the lighthouse support contract around that time period, but for some reason CIL decided not to use this helicopter! Thanks.
500 Fan.
500 Fan.
