Who says there is no shortage of Helicopter Pilots?
Simon
The offshore world used to have such a thing as an instrument qualified but not rated co-pilot. These qualifications were given by the offshore company so long as you passed an instument base check (IBC). It was only valid for that company and allowed 2 crew IFR so long as the commander had an IR. Once the co-pilot had enough time under his belt he was trained for and then sat the IRT with the CAA and became a fully fledged pilot with an IR. Sadly the regulators did away with this system and all 2 crew IFR helicopters in the UK have to be crewed with 2 pilots each with an IR.
So don't hold your breath for a change in the system.
HF
The offshore world used to have such a thing as an instrument qualified but not rated co-pilot. These qualifications were given by the offshore company so long as you passed an instument base check (IBC). It was only valid for that company and allowed 2 crew IFR so long as the commander had an IR. Once the co-pilot had enough time under his belt he was trained for and then sat the IRT with the CAA and became a fully fledged pilot with an IR. Sadly the regulators did away with this system and all 2 crew IFR helicopters in the UK have to be crewed with 2 pilots each with an IR.
So don't hold your breath for a change in the system.
HF
Humminfrog,
This qualifying procedure under company's responsability was ideal, beeing the best compromise alllowing to build up hours and gain experience in the "real thing" along with more experienced pilots.
It's a pity that FCL2 didn't take any inspiration on this procedure,once again showing a lack perceptiveness of real needs and possibilities of this activity.
This qualifying procedure under company's responsability was ideal, beeing the best compromise alllowing to build up hours and gain experience in the "real thing" along with more experienced pilots.
It's a pity that FCL2 didn't take any inspiration on this procedure,once again showing a lack perceptiveness of real needs and possibilities of this activity.
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Heli Ice
A little bird tells me one of the larger GOM companies are contemplating sponsoring visa's due to the lack of pilots...... That might help a few people.. I personally are waiting to see what happens with EASA once licencing issues are discussed in July...
A little bird tells me one of the larger GOM companies are contemplating sponsoring visa's due to the lack of pilots...... That might help a few people.. I personally are waiting to see what happens with EASA once licencing issues are discussed in July...
North Sea shortages - Bristow
BBC Report 29 May '06
Helicopter crisis hits oil firms
A leading helicopter firm said a shortage of equipment and crews could damage North Sea oil industry.
A severe shortage of helicopters and pilots threatens the North Sea oil and gas industry, a leading firm has said.
The high price of oil means offshore activity is unprecedented, stretching supplies and crews to the limit.
Bristow, one of the world's leading helicopter operating companies, said it was "scouring the world" for helicopters, crews and technicians.
It claimed that the entire industry was struggling to cope with the lack of both aircraft and crew.
Bristow provides helicopter transportation, maintenance, search and rescue and aviation support, as well as oil and gas production management services worldwide.
Aberdeen's heliport is one of the busiest in the world and the oil and gas sector is heavily reliant on helicopters.
Bristow also urged offshore companies to improve their forward planning, claiming the potential shortfall could have been avoided if firms considered their long term needs.
In a separate move, the coastguard agency recently agreed a five-year leasing contract with CHC Scotia which will run to 2012 providing a fleet of new helicopters to replace its existing helicopters provided by Bristow.
End:
What do you think?
Helicopter crisis hits oil firms
A leading helicopter firm said a shortage of equipment and crews could damage North Sea oil industry.
A severe shortage of helicopters and pilots threatens the North Sea oil and gas industry, a leading firm has said.
The high price of oil means offshore activity is unprecedented, stretching supplies and crews to the limit.
Bristow, one of the world's leading helicopter operating companies, said it was "scouring the world" for helicopters, crews and technicians.
It claimed that the entire industry was struggling to cope with the lack of both aircraft and crew.
Bristow provides helicopter transportation, maintenance, search and rescue and aviation support, as well as oil and gas production management services worldwide.
Aberdeen's heliport is one of the busiest in the world and the oil and gas sector is heavily reliant on helicopters.
Bristow also urged offshore companies to improve their forward planning, claiming the potential shortfall could have been avoided if firms considered their long term needs.
In a separate move, the coastguard agency recently agreed a five-year leasing contract with CHC Scotia which will run to 2012 providing a fleet of new helicopters to replace its existing helicopters provided by Bristow.
End:
What do you think?
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Well there may be a shortage of experienced pilots but there is odviuosly no shortage of inexperienced pilots so I guess it comes down to either:
Improve pay and conditions to attract experienced pilots back into the industry and into the areas they are needed or
lower hiring standards to take advantage of a large pool of inexperienced pilots and hope for the best...
Improve pay and conditions to attract experienced pilots back into the industry and into the areas they are needed or
lower hiring standards to take advantage of a large pool of inexperienced pilots and hope for the best...
Thread Starter
What a load of Bollocks!
Bristow also urged offshore companies to improve their forward planning, claiming the potential shortfall could have been avoided if firms considered their long term needs.
I would never suggest Bristow as being one of the industry leaders in that regard.....too many belly buttons being used as peepholes in that bunch.
Hovering AND talking
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Originally Posted by overpitched
Well there may be a shortage of experienced pilots but there is odviuosly no shortage of inexperienced pilots so I guess it comes down to either:
Improve pay and conditions to attract experienced pilots back into the industry and into the areas they are needed or
lower hiring standards to take advantage of a large pool of inexperienced pilots and hope for the best...
Improve pay and conditions to attract experienced pilots back into the industry and into the areas they are needed or
lower hiring standards to take advantage of a large pool of inexperienced pilots and hope for the best...
Cheers
Whirls
"Bristow also urged offshore companies to improve their forward planning, claiming the potential shortfall could have been avoided if firms considered their long term needs"
I think you'll find that the oil companies themselves were caught out by the increase in activity and meteoric rise in oil price, too. All the majors are having difficulty meeting their recruiting demands from a limited pool of resources. Similarly the demand has pushed support service prices to levels not predicted 3-5 years ago e.g deep water drilling rigs at nearly 500,000 USD per day!
I also think that longer term planning is part of the equation now, with the stop start cycle in activity, and recruiting and downsizing seen before as oil prices fluctuated, being reduced in an attempt to ensure greater continuity and stability.
I think you'll find that the oil companies themselves were caught out by the increase in activity and meteoric rise in oil price, too. All the majors are having difficulty meeting their recruiting demands from a limited pool of resources. Similarly the demand has pushed support service prices to levels not predicted 3-5 years ago e.g deep water drilling rigs at nearly 500,000 USD per day!
I also think that longer term planning is part of the equation now, with the stop start cycle in activity, and recruiting and downsizing seen before as oil prices fluctuated, being reduced in an attempt to ensure greater continuity and stability.
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Whirygig.
One of the things I have noticed in this country is that the companies that are having the most problems recruiting at the moment are those that are paying the least whilst at the same time expecting pilots to live and work in fairly primitive conditions....No surprise really. In remote areas here the pilot is nearly always the lowest paid worker in camp.
As for "lowering recruitment standards and putting more money into training" I was going to list that as an option but I was trying to stick to just the options that were somewhere in the realm of possibility. It's a nice thought though !!!!
One of the things I have noticed in this country is that the companies that are having the most problems recruiting at the moment are those that are paying the least whilst at the same time expecting pilots to live and work in fairly primitive conditions....No surprise really. In remote areas here the pilot is nearly always the lowest paid worker in camp.
As for "lowering recruitment standards and putting more money into training" I was going to list that as an option but I was trying to stick to just the options that were somewhere in the realm of possibility. It's a nice thought though !!!!
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₤500.00 a day **** what have I been doing wrong…. I would suggest that that sort of pay only goes to those very high up on the food chain (IFR ATP all the types under the sun) but even so that sounds a little high to me? And of course that figure doesn’t take into account the days weeks and months you go with out pay waiting on the next job, on top of that you have insurances taxes and the unenviable position of being forced into the banking business (waiting to get paid) so do tell whirls where do you get paid ₤500.00 per day to fly?
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As far as I understand it, that is what a certain North Sea Operator is offering at the moment for S-76 rated, IFR ATPL(H), thousands of hours captains i.e. experienced as I mentioned before. It had already been on Rotorheads.
That will not include days off etc and presumably the role is freelance so therefore one will be paying for ones own pension and loss of licence insurance but hey! it's not a bad whack though is it!
Cheers
Whirls
That will not include days off etc and presumably the role is freelance so therefore one will be paying for ones own pension and loss of licence insurance but hey! it's not a bad whack though is it!
Cheers
Whirls
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Life will be good if you stick at it
Of course in the land down under we’ve had a co-pilot instrument rating for a number of years (not ICAO recognised). Pass the IREX, fly an NDB approach and you’ve got one. Continue to gather another 50 hours of IF and you can present for a Command IR. Although, the latest talk is that this will go with the new CASR’s…..shame.
All well and good but, how many Coey positions are there in OZ? Not too many. Esso, Bristow offshore, some CHC offshore and Childflight. Most EMS is single pilot. Until the industry and its clients realise that you will only get out what you put in, not much will change. After all, the Oz scene is pretty small on the scale of things or otherwise I might not be suffering a touring position like now. Coupled with the current Timor trouble, I can’t see a great increase in the offshore demand for crews. Interesting to count up the number of ME CIR positions in Australia, my guess max. 100.
Overseas is a different kettle of fish. North Sea drivers are now paid reasonably well compared to pre BALPA days. The African scene is desperate for pilots with both Bristow and now CHC proposing expat CP’s as there are not enough National candidates around to train up whilst keeping up with the work load. Canada, just pretend you have a licence and your in. GOM, guys working compulsory overtime due lack of drivers.
I’m fortunate as I’ve have a job, but you low time guys, you also are fortunate if you turn the age advantage to your benefit. Get the IREX and ATP exams done and finished. Scratch out the hours like most of us had to do and ‘pay you dues’. That never changes believe me. Make yourself more employable than the next person by attitude, presentation and all the other life skills that help to get you moving up the ladder. Your chances of earning a good living at flying a helicopter is the best I’ve seen in my 30 years of flying, but you have to go get it, it won’t and never has been easy. You might have to think outside Oz to do it, but don’t be afraid to do so. It’s a totally different world out here.
Above all…don’t give up
Geoff
All well and good but, how many Coey positions are there in OZ? Not too many. Esso, Bristow offshore, some CHC offshore and Childflight. Most EMS is single pilot. Until the industry and its clients realise that you will only get out what you put in, not much will change. After all, the Oz scene is pretty small on the scale of things or otherwise I might not be suffering a touring position like now. Coupled with the current Timor trouble, I can’t see a great increase in the offshore demand for crews. Interesting to count up the number of ME CIR positions in Australia, my guess max. 100.
Overseas is a different kettle of fish. North Sea drivers are now paid reasonably well compared to pre BALPA days. The African scene is desperate for pilots with both Bristow and now CHC proposing expat CP’s as there are not enough National candidates around to train up whilst keeping up with the work load. Canada, just pretend you have a licence and your in. GOM, guys working compulsory overtime due lack of drivers.
I’m fortunate as I’ve have a job, but you low time guys, you also are fortunate if you turn the age advantage to your benefit. Get the IREX and ATP exams done and finished. Scratch out the hours like most of us had to do and ‘pay you dues’. That never changes believe me. Make yourself more employable than the next person by attitude, presentation and all the other life skills that help to get you moving up the ladder. Your chances of earning a good living at flying a helicopter is the best I’ve seen in my 30 years of flying, but you have to go get it, it won’t and never has been easy. You might have to think outside Oz to do it, but don’t be afraid to do so. It’s a totally different world out here.
Above all…don’t give up
Geoff
Geoff,
That would have to be the best summary of the situation here that I have seen, coupled with some good advice.
My only exception is that I see the requirement for offshore crews here in Australia growing with the increase in exploration and the number of experienced captains approaching retirement.
Anyone starting out would do well to take heart from the above posting.
That would have to be the best summary of the situation here that I have seen, coupled with some good advice.
My only exception is that I see the requirement for offshore crews here in Australia growing with the increase in exploration and the number of experienced captains approaching retirement.
Anyone starting out would do well to take heart from the above posting.
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Coey IR in Oz
Geoff, I thought CA$A's concern with this rating was that the 50 was not done under an instructors supervision and therefore the standard of the person's flying wasn't as good / not guaranteed. Although they still have to pass the test, don't they.
Do you consider operators like SPRS as 'real' EMS and would you want to see them go to multi crew? Should EMS be ME? Would this ME/multi crew then shut down charity / community operators like SPRS, etc?
Just curious.
Do you consider operators like SPRS as 'real' EMS and would you want to see them go to multi crew? Should EMS be ME? Would this ME/multi crew then shut down charity / community operators like SPRS, etc?
Just curious.
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CYHeli…The limiting factor for multi crewing on EMS is the weight penalty. SPRS even more so with an already very heavy L III. For mission reasons a crewy, or down the wire person, and another crewy to do the winching is all the luxury of crew an EMS can usually afford. I wish it was different but alas not.
As for the CP IR, well as an instructor I always passed a student on their capabilities and if they met the aeronautical experience qualifications as laid down in the Orders/Regs. Yes, if a CP flies around fat dumb and happy for 50 hours with no training, they will not pass an initial CIR most likely. It is however a good way of getting them into the IFR environment and have them practice the skills ready for that initial test. I am very much in favour of the CP IR for this reason. You can be just as well prepared as a candidate by doing formal training as you can by a mixture of on the job and specific training. Also, it is cost effective for companies to allow them to progress people from a non-command to a command seat.
Pohm1…I hope you are correct with your prediction. Esso will have some expansion and the Otways is Bristows ‘newer’ adventure, but as for Timor, we’ve all been waiting a long time and I think there is still some more waiting to do.
Geoff
As for the CP IR, well as an instructor I always passed a student on their capabilities and if they met the aeronautical experience qualifications as laid down in the Orders/Regs. Yes, if a CP flies around fat dumb and happy for 50 hours with no training, they will not pass an initial CIR most likely. It is however a good way of getting them into the IFR environment and have them practice the skills ready for that initial test. I am very much in favour of the CP IR for this reason. You can be just as well prepared as a candidate by doing formal training as you can by a mixture of on the job and specific training. Also, it is cost effective for companies to allow them to progress people from a non-command to a command seat.
Pohm1…I hope you are correct with your prediction. Esso will have some expansion and the Otways is Bristows ‘newer’ adventure, but as for Timor, we’ve all been waiting a long time and I think there is still some more waiting to do.
Geoff
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Geoff,
Your dead right .... but I wonder if CASAs position is more to do with the Oz instructors who may not have Bona Fide instrument time .... sort of "the blind leading the blind?"
???
Your dead right .... but I wonder if CASAs position is more to do with the Oz instructors who may not have Bona Fide instrument time .... sort of "the blind leading the blind?"
???
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Spinwing….yep, that’s always a possibility. I would like to think that anyone who is in a position to hold a CP IR is also in an approved training environment as per Reg 217 and similar. They would then be examined by the company’s ATO who I would also assume to be a working IFR driver. That’s certainly how it works with Bristow and CHC and Esso ops.
We for example have a sim ride every year, plus Proficiency Checks incorporating IF and emergencies in the aircraft both for Captains and Co-Pilots. This is oil industry driven.
CASA needs to realise they also have an obligation to see this area of our industry grow to meet the demands. Interesting to hear mutterings of a similar style of qualification being suggested in other countries.
Well better go, have to do some flying. Home in bit over a week so get this all sorted lads before I get back.
Geoff
We for example have a sim ride every year, plus Proficiency Checks incorporating IF and emergencies in the aircraft both for Captains and Co-Pilots. This is oil industry driven.
CASA needs to realise they also have an obligation to see this area of our industry grow to meet the demands. Interesting to hear mutterings of a similar style of qualification being suggested in other countries.
Well better go, have to do some flying. Home in bit over a week so get this all sorted lads before I get back.
Geoff
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Just found this on the BBC's web site about pilot shortage...
Helicopter crisis hits oil firms
Bristow is 'scouring the world' for helicopters and crew
A severe shortage of helicopters and pilots threatens the North Sea oil and gas industry, a leading firm has said.
The high price of oil means offshore activity is unprecedented, stretching supplies and crews to the limit.
Bristow, one of the world's leading helicopter operating companies, said it was "scouring the world" for helicopters, crews and technicians.
It claimed that the entire industry was struggling to cope with the lack of both aircraft and crew.
Bristow provides helicopter transportation, maintenance, search and rescue and aviation support, as well as oil and gas production management services worldwide.
'Avoid problems'
Willie Toner, the company's director of European operations, said oil and gas companies must include helicopter provision earlier in their forward planning.
He said: "In the same way that drilling rigs are booked well in advance, long-term consideration of future helicopter requirements would ensure that the risk of any shortfall in availability is significantly reduced.
"It would be very helpful if the helicopter operators could be part of clients' overall logistical planning from the outset."
He added that the delivery of new aircraft could take up to two years and the training of personnel takes between five and seven years.
Mr Toner said the company was investing "significant sums" over the coming years in fleet expansion, personnel recruitment and training to meet current requirements.
"We want to avoid any future problems by being more closely involved in our clients' forward planning," he added.
Aberdeen's heliport is one of the busiest in the world and the oil and gas sector is heavily reliant on helicopters.
Bristow also urged offshore companies to improve their forward planning, claiming the potential shortfall could have been avoided if firms considered their long term needs.
In a separate move, the coastguard agency recently agreed a five-year leasing contract with CHC Scotia which will run to 2012 providing a fleet of new helicopters to replace its existing helicopters provided by Bristow.
Helicopter crisis hits oil firms
Bristow is 'scouring the world' for helicopters and crew
A severe shortage of helicopters and pilots threatens the North Sea oil and gas industry, a leading firm has said.
The high price of oil means offshore activity is unprecedented, stretching supplies and crews to the limit.
Bristow, one of the world's leading helicopter operating companies, said it was "scouring the world" for helicopters, crews and technicians.
It claimed that the entire industry was struggling to cope with the lack of both aircraft and crew.
Bristow provides helicopter transportation, maintenance, search and rescue and aviation support, as well as oil and gas production management services worldwide.
'Avoid problems'
Willie Toner, the company's director of European operations, said oil and gas companies must include helicopter provision earlier in their forward planning.
He said: "In the same way that drilling rigs are booked well in advance, long-term consideration of future helicopter requirements would ensure that the risk of any shortfall in availability is significantly reduced.
"It would be very helpful if the helicopter operators could be part of clients' overall logistical planning from the outset."
He added that the delivery of new aircraft could take up to two years and the training of personnel takes between five and seven years.
Mr Toner said the company was investing "significant sums" over the coming years in fleet expansion, personnel recruitment and training to meet current requirements.
"We want to avoid any future problems by being more closely involved in our clients' forward planning," he added.
Aberdeen's heliport is one of the busiest in the world and the oil and gas sector is heavily reliant on helicopters.
Bristow also urged offshore companies to improve their forward planning, claiming the potential shortfall could have been avoided if firms considered their long term needs.
In a separate move, the coastguard agency recently agreed a five-year leasing contract with CHC Scotia which will run to 2012 providing a fleet of new helicopters to replace its existing helicopters provided by Bristow.