Becoming a Crewman, Winchman etc
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a few questions on SAR rear crew
I see no one from the Fleet Air Arm has posted so what is the difference in their SAR crew training?
And given that SAR has to look after injured Casualties what Trauma/ Life support training do they have?
Isn't there a case for the SAR Rear crew to be paramedics?
I see no one from the Fleet Air Arm has posted so what is the difference in their SAR crew training?
And given that SAR has to look after injured Casualties what Trauma/ Life support training do they have?
Isn't there a case for the SAR Rear crew to be paramedics?
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Are there RAF medics on board or are the Loadies/Aeops trained as Paramedics.
If you speak to AMS personell they have a very low regard for RAF medics certainly the concensus with Naval and Army medics is the standard of common core syllabus for medics was lowered to accomidate the RAF with its (GP type primary care slant as opposed to the trauma care slant of other 2 services) and this has caused huge problems for Army and Navy who need their medics to work independently. The move to Paramedic in the military hasn't been driven by need but by 'Clinical Governance' which effectivly doesn't recognise the Medics as they historically had no externally recognised to role qualifications. If RAF SAR is going to carry paramedics this can only be a bonus.
If you speak to AMS personell they have a very low regard for RAF medics certainly the concensus with Naval and Army medics is the standard of common core syllabus for medics was lowered to accomidate the RAF with its (GP type primary care slant as opposed to the trauma care slant of other 2 services) and this has caused huge problems for Army and Navy who need their medics to work independently. The move to Paramedic in the military hasn't been driven by need but by 'Clinical Governance' which effectivly doesn't recognise the Medics as they historically had no externally recognised to role qualifications. If RAF SAR is going to carry paramedics this can only be a bonus.
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Nurse
The RAF SAR Rearcrew are aircrew initially trained as Med Technicians then after 2 years attend more training to become Paramedics. The qualifications are the same as civvy street and training is by a medical faculty with a plethoa of trauma consultants in the team. The drive for registered status was driven by government legislation but the guys are now trained to equal status as any ambulance crew. The Jigsaw crews are trained by the same team. Training concentrates on mainstream work but the peads and the old folk have to be covered just as a civvy crew.
I understand your comments about RAF medics, horses for courses, but SAR Rearcrew work in a diferent environment and require different standards of training.
Heads down, look out for the flack
The RAF SAR Rearcrew are aircrew initially trained as Med Technicians then after 2 years attend more training to become Paramedics. The qualifications are the same as civvy street and training is by a medical faculty with a plethoa of trauma consultants in the team. The drive for registered status was driven by government legislation but the guys are now trained to equal status as any ambulance crew. The Jigsaw crews are trained by the same team. Training concentrates on mainstream work but the peads and the old folk have to be covered just as a civvy crew.
I understand your comments about RAF medics, horses for courses, but SAR Rearcrew work in a diferent environment and require different standards of training.
Heads down, look out for the flack
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fine. I know there has been ah huge change since the miliary realised on Op Tellic that clinical governance applied to them and there has been a huge change in the way Army Medics will be trained in future. I'm Glad to hear that the rear crews of SAR fleet are PM qualified.
As to the horses for courses unfortunatley this has had impacts on the provision of care to the Army and Navy and maybe giving command of DMSTC to the RAF was a huge error. Personally i think the standard across the 3 services should have been raised to that of the Royal Navy who's Medical Assistants have a superb reputation for high levels of training and expertise.
As to the horses for courses unfortunatley this has had impacts on the provision of care to the Army and Navy and maybe giving command of DMSTC to the RAF was a huge error. Personally i think the standard across the 3 services should have been raised to that of the Royal Navy who's Medical Assistants have a superb reputation for high levels of training and expertise.
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In the RN SAR is not a career specialisation.
Having been posted to a SAR unit (Gannet SAR Flt or 771) you would undertake the appropriate conversion courses and medical training. After 1 or 2 tours in SAR you would then normally return to 'frontline' operations. For many that means another conversion/refresher cse to Merlin/Lynx etc and taking those specialist SAR/medical skills into the frontline.
With respect to medical protocols the RN SAR currently operate under 3 Grp Orders so the med training is identical.
SAR H will undoubtedly transform the way we do business and ameliorate the differences between dark/light blue and the MCA chaps.
Unique to the RN is the opportunity for a limited no of its rearcrew to trained as SAR divers.
Having been posted to a SAR unit (Gannet SAR Flt or 771) you would undertake the appropriate conversion courses and medical training. After 1 or 2 tours in SAR you would then normally return to 'frontline' operations. For many that means another conversion/refresher cse to Merlin/Lynx etc and taking those specialist SAR/medical skills into the frontline.
With respect to medical protocols the RN SAR currently operate under 3 Grp Orders so the med training is identical.
SAR H will undoubtedly transform the way we do business and ameliorate the differences between dark/light blue and the MCA chaps.
Unique to the RN is the opportunity for a limited no of its rearcrew to trained as SAR divers.
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As well as the military training for SAR rearcrew that takes the best part of a year, the Jigsaw project team working out of Sumburgh and the Miller Platform, northeast of Peterhead, have started to train their own crewmen. Most Jigsaw rearcrew are ex-SAR but for sustainability they have decided to take trainee winchmen with a suitable background and give them an in-house package with a view to becoming a winch-op later in their career.
As for Buoy 15's comments about the "face fitting", you've been misinformed and I agree completely with Cabe LeCutter's comments. The courses at Valley and St. Mawgan are difficult but the real learning starts when you arrive on the flight. Nimrod experience count for very little when it comes to flying helicopters, particularly in the very demanding role of RadOp and Winchman. Some make it - some don't, but it's ability and attitude that counts, not having a face that fits.
As for Buoy 15's comments about the "face fitting", you've been misinformed and I agree completely with Cabe LeCutter's comments. The courses at Valley and St. Mawgan are difficult but the real learning starts when you arrive on the flight. Nimrod experience count for very little when it comes to flying helicopters, particularly in the very demanding role of RadOp and Winchman. Some make it - some don't, but it's ability and attitude that counts, not having a face that fits.
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Anyway Back to My Thread
Yes.yes.yes.
But does anyone have any information on training courses outside UK military for helicopter rearcrew?
Steve G does run AtlasReed.
But does anyone have any information on training courses outside UK military for helicopter rearcrew?
Steve G does run AtlasReed.
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NURSE
I suspect that you must be in the Army. I am afraid that you are wrong wrt standards being dropped to enable the RAF to achieve Army standards and flatter yourself when comparing Army and RN medics in the same sentance. I would agree that the RN medic when fully trained is a formidable animal.
I also suspect that you have never served at DMSTC under RAF command and would be interested to hear what hugh errors have occurred since they took their turn.
I suspect that you must be in the Army. I am afraid that you are wrong wrt standards being dropped to enable the RAF to achieve Army standards and flatter yourself when comparing Army and RN medics in the same sentance. I would agree that the RN medic when fully trained is a formidable animal.
I also suspect that you have never served at DMSTC under RAF command and would be interested to hear what hugh errors have occurred since they took their turn.
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Originally Posted by 4fitter
NURSE
I suspect that you must be in the Army. I am afraid that you are wrong wrt standards being dropped to enable the RAF to achieve Army standards and flatter yourself when comparing Army and RN medics in the same sentance. I would agree that the RN medic when fully trained is a formidable animal.
I also suspect that you have never served at DMSTC under RAF command and would be interested to hear what hugh errors have occurred since they took their turn.
I suspect that you must be in the Army. I am afraid that you are wrong wrt standards being dropped to enable the RAF to achieve Army standards and flatter yourself when comparing Army and RN medics in the same sentance. I would agree that the RN medic when fully trained is a formidable animal.
I also suspect that you have never served at DMSTC under RAF command and would be interested to hear what hugh errors have occurred since they took their turn.
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NURSE,
Are you sure you're a nurse and not a surgeon? Only you've done what I thought was anatomically impossible and fixed it so that you can actually talk out of your ar$e.
Are you sure you're a nurse and not a surgeon? Only you've done what I thought was anatomically impossible and fixed it so that you can actually talk out of your ar$e.
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Search & Rescue Training
Hello,
I was just wondering if you experts out there could help me with some questions I have.
I am possible thinking of perusing a career in the search and rescue industry. Hopefully as Rear Crew (Winchman/Winch Operator).
But I would not want to join the military. Is there any civilian training to qualify for this role? If so how much does this sort of training cost?
And what sort of fitness level do you need, I believe it is a Class 2 Medical but I am unsure about that.
Any other advice would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers,
Shetlander
I was just wondering if you experts out there could help me with some questions I have.
I am possible thinking of perusing a career in the search and rescue industry. Hopefully as Rear Crew (Winchman/Winch Operator).
But I would not want to join the military. Is there any civilian training to qualify for this role? If so how much does this sort of training cost?
And what sort of fitness level do you need, I believe it is a Class 2 Medical but I am unsure about that.
Any other advice would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers,
Shetlander
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shetander
Why don't you go and see those friendly chaps at the MCA base at Sumburgh or the also friendly Bond "Jigsaw" chaps also at Sumburgh? They would be best placed to help you initially, I would have thought.
Good luck with your quest.
Jknife
Why don't you go and see those friendly chaps at the MCA base at Sumburgh or the also friendly Bond "Jigsaw" chaps also at Sumburgh? They would be best placed to help you initially, I would have thought.
Good luck with your quest.
Jknife
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SAR Training.
Shetlander,
Get yourself a copy of the BHAB (British Helicopter Advisory Board) handbook,(£12ish) it has a listing of all training providers, think from memory British International or Bond offer the training you are looking for,
Good luck,
BC.
Get yourself a copy of the BHAB (British Helicopter Advisory Board) handbook,(£12ish) it has a listing of all training providers, think from memory British International or Bond offer the training you are looking for,
Good luck,
BC.
And you'll probably get trained by ex-mil chaps anyway.
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Hello all,
Thank-you for your replies.
Since i have posted this topic i have been in contact with Atlas Reed Ltd.
They have proved to be very helpful in this topic. If anyone is in the same position;the only advice i can give is contact Atlas Reed. You can get them on http://www.atlasreed.co.uk/ .
Cheers
Shetlander
Thank-you for your replies.
Since i have posted this topic i have been in contact with Atlas Reed Ltd.
They have proved to be very helpful in this topic. If anyone is in the same position;the only advice i can give is contact Atlas Reed. You can get them on http://www.atlasreed.co.uk/ .
Cheers
Shetlander
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Just been to look at http://www.atlasreed.co.uk and they seem to do HHO training in partnership with a German outfit called HRC GmbH. Looks like they focus on the alpine rescue market using small/med helicopters like EC135, Squirrel, BK117, etc. Not sure they have done anything in the UK yet. Good to see someone other than the military and DHFS offering this kind of training.
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Training outside the UK
As mentioned earlier in the thread, RACQ CareFlight regularly conduct both Aircrewman (winch op) and Rescue Crewman (Down the wire) courses. Their website is www.careflightsafety.com.au. Check it out if you are interested. I understand all the training is conducted by ex military aircrew.
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Kelpie (not in Aus)
Originally Posted by Oogle
M-4
Sorry, can't help with any leads but.......
A good crewman is worth their weight in gold. Been in many tight situations and they have proved themselves time and time again.
In Aus we call them Kelpies..... they get in the back and "Yap, yap, yap..."
Sorry, can't help with any leads but.......
A good crewman is worth their weight in gold. Been in many tight situations and they have proved themselves time and time again.
In Aus we call them Kelpies..... they get in the back and "Yap, yap, yap..."