Bell 430
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Bell 430
The EMS program I work for is in the market for a pair of new helicopters. We are looking at B430's, but it seems their hot weather performance drops off sharply. Our base elevation is 3300ft and we hit 35 to 40 degrees C in the summer. Does anyone have experience with 430's? What kind of EMS interiors are available? Any feed back would be greatly appreciated.
Nick
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Hi, My name is Bruce Laurin, I am a senior production test pilot with Bell Helicopter in Montreal Quebec. My specialty is the Bell 430 and I have had the opportunity to operate the 430 in the middle east at temp up to +50C. I can assure you that the aircraft is quite a good performer at these excsssive temp. While I was posted in the country of Bahrain for 3 month the OAT never went below +40C day or night. We had no problems at all with regards to hot climate ops. For any more detailed info call me at
450-437-6045
Bruce Laurin BHTC
450-437-6045
Bruce Laurin BHTC
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Whatsarunway
I'm (genuinely)interested to know more about the 155, do you have personal experience of it?
Curious response after the one above: the 155's upper operating limit for OAT is 40 C at sea level, wouldn't be too clever in the Middle East then?
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Another day in paradise
I'm (genuinely)interested to know more about the 155, do you have personal experience of it?
Curious response after the one above: the 155's upper operating limit for OAT is 40 C at sea level, wouldn't be too clever in the Middle East then?
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Another day in paradise
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Actually the 430 is in the intermediate category, the EC 155 is in the medium category so is a bit difficult to compare them but I looked up the numbers for fun.
EC 155 IGE Hover ceiling is 6210 ft.
OGE Hover ceiling is 2800 ft.
Bell 430 IGE Hover ceiling is 11700 ft.
OGE Hover ceiling is 6200 ft.
All the above at max. gross of course.
EC 155 IGE Hover ceiling is 6210 ft.
OGE Hover ceiling is 2800 ft.
Bell 430 IGE Hover ceiling is 11700 ft.
OGE Hover ceiling is 6200 ft.
All the above at max. gross of course.
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max auw of 155 is higher than 430 holds more is quicker and looks better, we have one orderd for next january with a view to ems ops but charter initaly. It is a super heli but so is the 430 , not a lot in it really but for us , the fact you can fit 12 in the back and the biggest baggage hold in its class took the biscuit.
very automated cockpit not much to flying it really and its single ifr with pretty good cat a performance even at the max auw ,
you owe it to yourself to have a go.
very automated cockpit not much to flying it really and its single ifr with pretty good cat a performance even at the max auw ,
you owe it to yourself to have a go.
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Bell 430 Starting Limits and OEI Limitations
Wondering if there are any Bell 430 pilots out there. I heard that there is a problem with the software on it related to the OEI temp limits and the starting temp limits. I was told that if it is a hot day it can set off the M/OEI and a maintenance type has to come back and reset it even though there has been no exceedances.
Can anyone shed some light on this.
Can anyone shed some light on this.
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The M/OEI will trigger a fault if the 'OEI MGT limit' is exceeded on start. The aircraft will start properly, and the abort function will still work (and work well) using the START limits.
Two methods of dealing with this for now.....vent the engine before starting if residual is high...
or have maintenance erase the fault code after. It is a nuisance code, and flight with it annunciated is not an issue, provided the pilot checks the exceedance and verifies that it is only the OEI limits that have been busted.
Next software revision addresses this. Hope this answers your question.
Two methods of dealing with this for now.....vent the engine before starting if residual is high...
or have maintenance erase the fault code after. It is a nuisance code, and flight with it annunciated is not an issue, provided the pilot checks the exceedance and verifies that it is only the OEI limits that have been busted.
Next software revision addresses this. Hope this answers your question.
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Bell 430 - pros and cons of ownership
I would very much appreciate some advice on the Bell 430 from you experienced guys. Operation would be primarily be in UK.
It's a pretty looking craft but I need to know if it's characteristics;-
range and cabin loading with full fuel;- range with full complement of passengers and baggage bay loaded to limits;- good points;- bad points;- what are the most annoying snags;-
Your comments please.
It's a pretty looking craft but I need to know if it's characteristics;-
range and cabin loading with full fuel;- range with full complement of passengers and baggage bay loaded to limits;- good points;- bad points;- what are the most annoying snags;-
Your comments please.
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I assume you would want to operate in Category A. One of the UK requirements is that you train and demonstrate Category A with your pilots.
Unless things have changed drastically, there is no way to do this in the real aircraft. The engines have 30" and 2 min One Engine Inoperative Ratings, and the certification rules require that these ratings only be used in a real emergency. Training does not constitute an emergency. Nearly every other helicopter with these ratings incorporates a training mode switch to make the FADEC simulate the engine failure condition. Not the Bell 430.
If you simulate engine failures by retarding a throttle you are doing two things - a) violating the flight manual limitations, and b) putting the engine into an area that will potentially cost you thousands of dollars per second of operation - the engines have very short life in the 30" rating (total of 2 to 4 minutes) before they have to be removed for overhaul.
And I don't believe the CAA has accepted the only Bell 430 simulator (in Fort Worth) for Category A training - could be wrong on this.
So, you could buy the 430 but not be able to operate it in the UK.
If you want to correspond about this privately, send me an email off line.
Unless things have changed drastically, there is no way to do this in the real aircraft. The engines have 30" and 2 min One Engine Inoperative Ratings, and the certification rules require that these ratings only be used in a real emergency. Training does not constitute an emergency. Nearly every other helicopter with these ratings incorporates a training mode switch to make the FADEC simulate the engine failure condition. Not the Bell 430.
If you simulate engine failures by retarding a throttle you are doing two things - a) violating the flight manual limitations, and b) putting the engine into an area that will potentially cost you thousands of dollars per second of operation - the engines have very short life in the 30" rating (total of 2 to 4 minutes) before they have to be removed for overhaul.
And I don't believe the CAA has accepted the only Bell 430 simulator (in Fort Worth) for Category A training - could be wrong on this.
So, you could buy the 430 but not be able to operate it in the UK.
If you want to correspond about this privately, send me an email off line.
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The 430 would most likely be operated on the private Category.
However, I note your very worthwhile concern of the engine handling/training scenario. As It was also likely to participate in public transport ops, your comments have been passed to potential owner.
However, I note your very worthwhile concern of the engine handling/training scenario. As It was also likely to participate in public transport ops, your comments have been passed to potential owner.
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The following is a press release from the FlightSafety website from 2002:
EUROPE'S JAA APPROVES FLIGHTSAFETY BELL CENTER'S BELL 430 TRAINING PROGRAMS
May 13, 2002
FlightSafety's Bell Learning Center in Fort Worth, Texas, has received the approval of the European Joint Aviation Authorities (JAA) for its Bell 430 helicopter pilot training programs.
This is the JAA's first helicopter certification outside Europe. The center provides fully approved training for Europeans with its JAA qualified instructors, examiners, and courseware.
FlightSafety is the official factory-approved training organization for Bell Helicopter Textron multi-engine aircraft. The FlightSafety center is located adjacent to the Bell manufacturing facility at Fort Worth, Texas. The center's equipment includes advanced full flight simulators for Bell's 222, 430, 212 and 412 helicopters. JAA certification for 212, 222, and 412 type training is expected during the summer.
Established over 50 years ago, FlightSafety is America's most experienced and diverse aviation training organization. The company is headquartered at New York's LaGuardia Airport.
EUROPE'S JAA APPROVES FLIGHTSAFETY BELL CENTER'S BELL 430 TRAINING PROGRAMS
May 13, 2002
FlightSafety's Bell Learning Center in Fort Worth, Texas, has received the approval of the European Joint Aviation Authorities (JAA) for its Bell 430 helicopter pilot training programs.
This is the JAA's first helicopter certification outside Europe. The center provides fully approved training for Europeans with its JAA qualified instructors, examiners, and courseware.
FlightSafety is the official factory-approved training organization for Bell Helicopter Textron multi-engine aircraft. The FlightSafety center is located adjacent to the Bell manufacturing facility at Fort Worth, Texas. The center's equipment includes advanced full flight simulators for Bell's 222, 430, 212 and 412 helicopters. JAA certification for 212, 222, and 412 type training is expected during the summer.
Established over 50 years ago, FlightSafety is America's most experienced and diverse aviation training organization. The company is headquartered at New York's LaGuardia Airport.
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Was lucky enough to do the transition on the actual Olympic B430 @ Bell Factory. The sim wasn't built! Did full autos, stuck pedals and every other profile the Instructor could throw at us.
Great machine. Cat A.....well, depends how much you weigh and a string of other factors. With the exception of flight in Unstable Air mass, the heli operates very well. Has the ability to pick up 9 pax and still fly for an hour!!!! Very smooth rotor system..called ' Soft-in-Plane'....another Yankee invention!!! Does not have parallel SCAS, rather primary and secondary. T/R is the exact same as the B222 circa 1979/80 technology!!!! But then thats Bell, little improvements at a time! Costs too much to do otherwise!
Great machine. Cat A.....well, depends how much you weigh and a string of other factors. With the exception of flight in Unstable Air mass, the heli operates very well. Has the ability to pick up 9 pax and still fly for an hour!!!! Very smooth rotor system..called ' Soft-in-Plane'....another Yankee invention!!! Does not have parallel SCAS, rather primary and secondary. T/R is the exact same as the B222 circa 1979/80 technology!!!! But then thats Bell, little improvements at a time! Costs too much to do otherwise!
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It's not that it's unpopular, but the UK / European market, where the machine would appear to be a natural, shrank considerably when the lack of training mode and attendent Category A operational approval became evident. The helicopter was accepted by the CAA as far as type certification was concerned, but not for operations, because you can't do on-site training with it.
Wasn't there a UK time-share operation that was going to use the machines? What happened to that?
Most other operators seem pretty happy with it. It is a smooth, reasonably fast machine, and flies pretty well. But like all new machines, it ain't cheap.
The real competition for the EMS market is a used Bell 222 - carries about the same load, also reasonably smooth, and much, much cheaper.
Wasn't there a UK time-share operation that was going to use the machines? What happened to that?
Most other operators seem pretty happy with it. It is a smooth, reasonably fast machine, and flies pretty well. But like all new machines, it ain't cheap.
The real competition for the EMS market is a used Bell 222 - carries about the same load, also reasonably smooth, and much, much cheaper.
HEAD TURNER,
I'VE BEEN OPERATING THE BELL 430 FOR ABOUT 7 YEARS NOW AND THE 222 FOR ALMOST 20 YEARS. THE 222 WAS A VERY RELIABLE MACHINE, THE ENGINES ARE A LITTLE SOFT AND THE WIRING ON THE ELECTRICS ISN'T THAT GOOD. LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE, TREAT IT WITH CARE AND IT WILL LOOK AFTER YOU.
WITH REGARD THE 430, WE TOOK DELIVERY IN 1997 AND AS IT WAS ONE OF THE FIRST WE HAD A LOT OF PROBLEMS WITH THE IIDS AND EFIS SCREENS. THERE WERE ALSO PROBLEMS WITH THE BATTERY BEING WEAK. THEY THANKFULLY HAVE BEEN SORTED OUT. DEPENDING ON THE INTERIOR FIT THAT YOU PICK ( SOUND PROOFING OR LIMO WINDOW) WILL PLAY A BIG PART ON WHAT YOU CAN LIFT, OUR MACHINE 6345 LBS AND WE HAVE THE BASIC INTERIOR. MAX GROSS IS 9300 LBS. THE AIRCRAFT IS CERTIFIED CAT A IN THE U.S.A. ONLY WHEN THE CAT A KIT IS INSTALLED.
HOPE THIS HAS BEEN OF SOME HELP.............
I'VE BEEN OPERATING THE BELL 430 FOR ABOUT 7 YEARS NOW AND THE 222 FOR ALMOST 20 YEARS. THE 222 WAS A VERY RELIABLE MACHINE, THE ENGINES ARE A LITTLE SOFT AND THE WIRING ON THE ELECTRICS ISN'T THAT GOOD. LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE, TREAT IT WITH CARE AND IT WILL LOOK AFTER YOU.
WITH REGARD THE 430, WE TOOK DELIVERY IN 1997 AND AS IT WAS ONE OF THE FIRST WE HAD A LOT OF PROBLEMS WITH THE IIDS AND EFIS SCREENS. THERE WERE ALSO PROBLEMS WITH THE BATTERY BEING WEAK. THEY THANKFULLY HAVE BEEN SORTED OUT. DEPENDING ON THE INTERIOR FIT THAT YOU PICK ( SOUND PROOFING OR LIMO WINDOW) WILL PLAY A BIG PART ON WHAT YOU CAN LIFT, OUR MACHINE 6345 LBS AND WE HAVE THE BASIC INTERIOR. MAX GROSS IS 9300 LBS. THE AIRCRAFT IS CERTIFIED CAT A IN THE U.S.A. ONLY WHEN THE CAT A KIT IS INSTALLED.
HOPE THIS HAS BEEN OF SOME HELP.............
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Head Turner,
might be worth giving Alan Mann's a call, they maintain a 430 on behalf of a middle eastern businessman in the UK - VP-BKQ.
Pilot most of the time is well known in the UK trade, he may be willing to share his experience of the past 5+ years of operating a 430 in the UK.
might be worth giving Alan Mann's a call, they maintain a 430 on behalf of a middle eastern businessman in the UK - VP-BKQ.
Pilot most of the time is well known in the UK trade, he may be willing to share his experience of the past 5+ years of operating a 430 in the UK.