BO 105 - Good, Bad or just Ugly?
Join Date: Jun 2012
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What is old is new
Hi guys....just been a great thread following all of your info....very interesting..
I've been lucky to be flying the BO105LSA3 model here in oz...they have had a it of resurgence back into the upcountry and have been put on surf patrol and EMS/SAR work....replacing some of the single engine machines.
Ours is on EMS duties in northern oz ...the dame not part of the country!! We are running C28 engines which have been TOT limited at AUW @ 1000ft where temps have hit 45deg C. Listening to you north EU chaps talking About light house inspections and the like up there in cooler climates ....was very envious of the conditions....no aircon makes for tough times in the middle of the day with a sick patient!!!
We are fully NVG IFR capable and are running G500 glass cockpit with new Garmin 650 GPS... Wearing the goggles is a bit tricky also in the 105 due to the small cockpit frame....for scanning to the left you always make contact with the airframe structures...
We are also running an AUX tanks which gives us 770 litres max to carry and a bit over 3 hours...fuel being hard to find in this part of the world other than in drums!!
Extremely agile little machine that keeps you honest in the I.F. Mode of flight but always performs pretty well...the back end is pretty cramped as well...
Cross winds through that tail rotor....be on your guard!!!!
She sits on high skids do ideal primary landings in the desert environment...
CSAS is our biggest bug bear but that might be because we have analogue trying to tell digital what to do ....in both roll and yaw it's ugly! A work in progress...
summary...
Not ideal in some rolls but she is a little beast!!
I've been lucky to be flying the BO105LSA3 model here in oz...they have had a it of resurgence back into the upcountry and have been put on surf patrol and EMS/SAR work....replacing some of the single engine machines.
Ours is on EMS duties in northern oz ...the dame not part of the country!! We are running C28 engines which have been TOT limited at AUW @ 1000ft where temps have hit 45deg C. Listening to you north EU chaps talking About light house inspections and the like up there in cooler climates ....was very envious of the conditions....no aircon makes for tough times in the middle of the day with a sick patient!!!
We are fully NVG IFR capable and are running G500 glass cockpit with new Garmin 650 GPS... Wearing the goggles is a bit tricky also in the 105 due to the small cockpit frame....for scanning to the left you always make contact with the airframe structures...
We are also running an AUX tanks which gives us 770 litres max to carry and a bit over 3 hours...fuel being hard to find in this part of the world other than in drums!!
Extremely agile little machine that keeps you honest in the I.F. Mode of flight but always performs pretty well...the back end is pretty cramped as well...
Cross winds through that tail rotor....be on your guard!!!!
She sits on high skids do ideal primary landings in the desert environment...
CSAS is our biggest bug bear but that might be because we have analogue trying to tell digital what to do ....in both roll and yaw it's ugly! A work in progress...
summary...
Not ideal in some rolls but she is a little beast!!
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: ...in view of the 'Southern Cross' ...
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Mmmmmm .....
...... CSAS is our biggest bug bear ....
If it makes you feel any better ... the Ferranti SAS in the 105D wasn't much chop either ... spent most of its time in the 'Off' position ...
Hows your 'dental plan' working out .... many teeth rattled loose (on short finals approach) yet?
Cheers
...... CSAS is our biggest bug bear ....
If it makes you feel any better ... the Ferranti SAS in the 105D wasn't much chop either ... spent most of its time in the 'Off' position ...
Hows your 'dental plan' working out .... many teeth rattled loose (on short finals approach) yet?
Cheers
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 67
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engine Wear & Tear
We operate CBS4 & 5 in Sarawak - hot and humid but not particularly high - day VFR. Doing a 1000 hr inspection on the turbines of one (CBS5) we found that the 1st stage IGVs looking particularly 'chewed' more so on the leading edge. It would appear that it has possibly been over-temped (?). However, think we are all pretty honest with **** ups and all the in flight limitations have been ok with nothing exceeded that we know of. That said the pre-start limit of 150 deg C may have been compromised. With the Lynx we used to blow the engine if it was hot and once the indicated dropped below 150 we would advance the lever to Ground idle and the engine would wind up without a problem. The issue here was that if the residual temp was above 150 then there was a risk of overtemp from too rapid rise of temp. The same was true (so I was told when I did the conversion) of the Bell 206B - same engine as our BO 105s (RR Allinson). Have we 'blown' the IGVs here because we have not allowed the residual temp to reach 150? I often wait for 200 and then start but wait until 17% N1 and an indicated temp of below 100 - it starts up well within limits.
Is this wrong?
Grateful for some advice from more experienced/knowledgeable BO pilots/engineers
Is this wrong?
Grateful for some advice from more experienced/knowledgeable BO pilots/engineers
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Cornwall
Age: 75
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Happy memories.......
..... of a robust machine that served me well enough when offshore based during the 80s. It was a bit of a stretch to be based 187 NM from the nearest onshore alternate and know that whilst shuttling day and night winter and summer you had to keep enough fuel on board to make it ashore if a donkey stopped.
Night shuttling (single pilot of course) could be a challenge mid-winter with no rad alt or weather radar you could easily find yourself in the middle of a snowstorm without knowing.
I always thought the Ferranti 'SAS' system was three green lights designed to fool you into thinking they actually did something - useless.
We used the basic model to set up the UK's first HEMS style Air Ambulance in 1987 and though it was pretty small it did the job admirably for years and showed just what could be done both clinically and logistically with the bare minimum of capability.
Great machine, respect.
G.
Night shuttling (single pilot of course) could be a challenge mid-winter with no rad alt or weather radar you could easily find yourself in the middle of a snowstorm without knowing.
I always thought the Ferranti 'SAS' system was three green lights designed to fool you into thinking they actually did something - useless.
We used the basic model to set up the UK's first HEMS style Air Ambulance in 1987 and though it was pretty small it did the job admirably for years and showed just what could be done both clinically and logistically with the bare minimum of capability.
Great machine, respect.
G.
The same was true (so I was told when I did the conversion) of the Bell 206B - same engine as our BO 105s (RR Allinson). Have we 'blown' the IGVs here because we have not allowed the residual temp to reach 150? I often wait for 200 and then start but wait until 17% N1 and an indicated temp of below 100 - it starts up well within limits.
In my own experience with the Allisons it was standard practice to 'motor' the starter unit (with the igniters off) until the residual TOT was down to around 50°c and thereafter to initiate a normal start.
By employing this separate 'motoring' of the starter you will find that it is unnecessary to allow the N1 to travel beyond normal and .. it has the added benefit of further reducing the residual TOT.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The South Coast
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Have a look at your start technique. The trailing edge of the stage 1 nozzle hates long cool starts.
Also, have a look at your fuel nozzle condition, maybe even bringing the nozzle clean down to every 100 hour.
A point to remember, the M250 turbine temperature is measured between the stage 2 and 3 wheel, so the temp at the stage 1 nozzle will be a lot higher than you see on the gauge.
Also, have a look at your fuel nozzle condition, maybe even bringing the nozzle clean down to every 100 hour.
A point to remember, the M250 turbine temperature is measured between the stage 2 and 3 wheel, so the temp at the stage 1 nozzle will be a lot higher than you see on the gauge.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: United Kingdom
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engine Wear & Tear
Thanks for the replies - we operate CBS4 &5s. This particular one (CBS5) is the quickest to cool down - usually both engines below 150 inside 30 mins - the other 4 all take at least 45 mins to 1 hr to reach that temperature.
Anyway luckily we have a good stck of spares and are changing the turbine as we speak!
Anyway luckily we have a good stck of spares and are changing the turbine as we speak!
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Canada
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Great thread,
I am just wondering if some of the guys who have flown the 105 could give me a comparison between the CBS-4 and CBS-5 with kit #105-80037 installed, Besides the single engine limitations what are the differences?
I have been told they don't shudder as much with the new style blades(PN.105-15108), and i have also been told they will lift an extra 150 Kgs.
If they do perform better is there a flight supplement to support this?
Thank You
I am just wondering if some of the guys who have flown the 105 could give me a comparison between the CBS-4 and CBS-5 with kit #105-80037 installed, Besides the single engine limitations what are the differences?
I have been told they don't shudder as much with the new style blades(PN.105-15108), and i have also been told they will lift an extra 150 Kgs.
If they do perform better is there a flight supplement to support this?
Thank You
Join Date: Dec 2006
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cbs4 vs cbs 5
Hi there
We operate CBS 4 and 5 and there is little tangible difference from flying/handling point of view (in my opinion). The 5 will give you and extra 200kg 100kg (?) of virtual lift and take you up to 2600Kg but you still cannot exceed 2500kg MTOW (if that makes sense).
I am currently on leave the moment and will be back next week when I ask my technicians about the Mod numbers.
In sum the 5 will give you a better performance on paper, however, limitations are the same as the 4. as well as the blades you also need the main rotor gearbox mod and I think one other but without looking in the books I cannot tell you.
regards
We operate CBS 4 and 5 and there is little tangible difference from flying/handling point of view (in my opinion). The 5 will give you and extra 200kg 100kg (?) of virtual lift and take you up to 2600Kg but you still cannot exceed 2500kg MTOW (if that makes sense).
I am currently on leave the moment and will be back next week when I ask my technicians about the Mod numbers.
In sum the 5 will give you a better performance on paper, however, limitations are the same as the 4. as well as the blades you also need the main rotor gearbox mod and I think one other but without looking in the books I cannot tell you.
regards
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: New Zealand
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CBS4 v CBS5
I have flown both and currently own and operate a CBS5. In my experience the CBS5 does not have the shudder through translation of the CBS4. On approach you can completely ignore the shudder (as it does not exist) whereas with the CBS4 you need to modify the approach so as to shorten the duration spent going through translation. It also feels to me that the CBS5 has a significant power advantage.
They are a honey of a machine. Load them up with whatever you like and they just fly away. They are a fabulous hunting platform with the shooters opening the sliding rear doors and sitting on the floor with their feet on the skids giving a near 180 degree field of fire.
I have a grin from ear to ear every time I pull the collective!
They are a honey of a machine. Load them up with whatever you like and they just fly away. They are a fabulous hunting platform with the shooters opening the sliding rear doors and sitting on the floor with their feet on the skids giving a near 180 degree field of fire.
I have a grin from ear to ear every time I pull the collective!
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Canada
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Follow Up Trim
I have come across a section in the MBB training manual that goes over an optional trim system on the 105 they call follow up trim, I have asked many questions regarding this system and i am getting many different answers. Is there any one on here that has come across a ship with this installed?, and if so what can you tell me about it. 
Yes I flew BO105's with the follow up-system.
You have a switch allowing the trim system to automatically follow the cyclic movement, thereby making it virtually without stick forces. With follow up activated it feels a littel bit like B204/206.
Didn't use it more than for test and learn how it worked/felt. Some(a few actually) pilots liked to use it during nap-of-earth flying.
You have a switch allowing the trim system to automatically follow the cyclic movement, thereby making it virtually without stick forces. With follow up activated it feels a littel bit like B204/206.
Didn't use it more than for test and learn how it worked/felt. Some(a few actually) pilots liked to use it during nap-of-earth flying.
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Mmmm ...
... Does the 105 require 2,6,12 year maintenance like the Eurocopter products
That depends on the system of maintenance that has been approved by (assumes CASA as you appear to be in Australia) by your regulating authority ..
... Does the 105 require 2,6,12 year maintenance like the Eurocopter products
That depends on the system of maintenance that has been approved by (assumes CASA as you appear to be in Australia) by your regulating authority ..
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: AUSTRALIA
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350 nut
yes there are calendar inspections,however these are mostly to do with components, whist others are more of a maintenance nature that can be incorporated into the routine maintenance cycle
yes there are calendar inspections,however these are mostly to do with components, whist others are more of a maintenance nature that can be incorporated into the routine maintenance cycle
Then there's the odd issue like the apprentice being tasked to fit the cover and not doing a full and free check, nor the supervisor. Embarrassing when the pilot, with a full load of VIPs, can't get full pedal and has to fix the problem before departure
