The venerable Bell 47
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I'm not sure of this, but I doubt there is such a thing as a float endorsement. Not in Canada anyway. It was part of the training given by individual operators who used floats. Operating a helicopter on floats is not much different than on skids. The floats get in the way of some of the downdrafting air from the main rotors and so lessen some of the lift capability in the hover.You won't get as much off the ground in no- wind situation and cruise speed will be less. If you do start the machine floating free on water, you'll do a couple of lazy revolutions before tail rotor gets up speed and authority is sufficient to hold you straight.
A bit obvious I know, but try not to land on sharp objects as putting patches on is time consuming as they are always on the bottom.
I've also heard that uneven air pressures in your floats can seriously enhance the possibility of ground reasonance in certain types, but I have no experience of that. I can tell you it definitely does with uneven tyre pressures in certain types.
No reason you can't do running takeoffs on water if too heavy to hover.This was done on long ferry flights when loaded up with spares etc and fuel was burned off en route so no problem at the other end with hovering.
Can't think of anything else useful to tell you as I think you can just go out and fly it. Hope this helps.
[ 04 January 2002: Message edited by: ditchy ]</p>
A bit obvious I know, but try not to land on sharp objects as putting patches on is time consuming as they are always on the bottom.
I've also heard that uneven air pressures in your floats can seriously enhance the possibility of ground reasonance in certain types, but I have no experience of that. I can tell you it definitely does with uneven tyre pressures in certain types.
No reason you can't do running takeoffs on water if too heavy to hover.This was done on long ferry flights when loaded up with spares etc and fuel was burned off en route so no problem at the other end with hovering.
Can't think of anything else useful to tell you as I think you can just go out and fly it. Hope this helps.
[ 04 January 2002: Message edited by: ditchy ]</p>
Ditchy,
Unfortunately, CASA lives in a different age, and float endorsements are a type by type requirement. We've only just (last week) had the requirement rescinded for individual sling endorsements for any helicopter >2750kg. Next move is to get rid of the 10 hour endorsement requirement for >2750kg <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
Unfortunately, CASA lives in a different age, and float endorsements are a type by type requirement. We've only just (last week) had the requirement rescinded for individual sling endorsements for any helicopter >2750kg. Next move is to get rid of the 10 hour endorsement requirement for >2750kg <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
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Ditchy,
"Operating a helicopter on floats is not much different than on skids."
Oh really. And running take-offs on water with Ma Bell's standard float package - right!
And how did you find the floats affected the handling when entering autorotation? Better still, how did you find doing touch down autos onto the water - much the same as skids on grass, I suppose.
Oh, and JE, while I agree that the individual sling endorsements requirement was gross overkill, I wouldn't rush to treat float endorsements the same way.
"Operating a helicopter on floats is not much different than on skids."
Oh really. And running take-offs on water with Ma Bell's standard float package - right!
And how did you find the floats affected the handling when entering autorotation? Better still, how did you find doing touch down autos onto the water - much the same as skids on grass, I suppose.
Oh, and JE, while I agree that the individual sling endorsements requirement was gross overkill, I wouldn't rush to treat float endorsements the same way.
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I did running takeoffs on water on a what I assume were Bell approved floats on a regular basis doing the long ferry flights required, as did the other pilots with the dozen or so helicopters we had on floats in my company.
I had one complete and sudden engine failure in a Bell 47 on floats. I don't recall any "difference" in autorotative entry or flight either on that day or during the training I did. On arrival at the ground [not water]I got the landing right knowing that a run on meant probably rolling the machine over. In my opinion any competent helicopter pilot would have no trouble mastering the minor differences that floats make to the handling characteristics of any helicopter approved for floats.
These slight variations were treated as common sense airmanship in the country I was operating and were included in the company training. Perhaps in your domocile, 4Dogs, the government does not credit you with either enough intelligence to see the differences or ability to handle them. All I can say is that in Canada, where extensive float operations have been carried out since the early fifties, no one was required to pass a government endorsement requirement for floats and personally I don't recall any incidents where lack of any such requirement caused problems.
Your suggestion that these things can't or shouldn't be done just shows your insularity. If you are indeed flying floats, I would suggest you get in contact with people in other parts of the world and broaden your horizons. You might learn something.
I had one complete and sudden engine failure in a Bell 47 on floats. I don't recall any "difference" in autorotative entry or flight either on that day or during the training I did. On arrival at the ground [not water]I got the landing right knowing that a run on meant probably rolling the machine over. In my opinion any competent helicopter pilot would have no trouble mastering the minor differences that floats make to the handling characteristics of any helicopter approved for floats.
These slight variations were treated as common sense airmanship in the country I was operating and were included in the company training. Perhaps in your domocile, 4Dogs, the government does not credit you with either enough intelligence to see the differences or ability to handle them. All I can say is that in Canada, where extensive float operations have been carried out since the early fifties, no one was required to pass a government endorsement requirement for floats and personally I don't recall any incidents where lack of any such requirement caused problems.
Your suggestion that these things can't or shouldn't be done just shows your insularity. If you are indeed flying floats, I would suggest you get in contact with people in other parts of the world and broaden your horizons. You might learn something.
If the Bell 47 is anything like the 205 in auto entry, be prepared with a ****load of forward cyclic on auto entry to avoid a big surprise!
Also caution the adverse roll with yaw.
Otherwise, good fun, in my limited experience of float ops.
Also caution the adverse roll with yaw.
Otherwise, good fun, in my limited experience of float ops.
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Looking for Bell 47 info
Hi all,
Looking for a web site/s with specs and general info on the Bell 47G-3B1.
* Specs
*cockpit/ac photos
*stories
*how they fly
Did a google search and waded through things for 45 odd mins before deciding someone out there may be able to save me poor aching eyes................
Ta
Looking for a web site/s with specs and general info on the Bell 47G-3B1.
* Specs
*cockpit/ac photos
*stories
*how they fly
Did a google search and waded through things for 45 odd mins before deciding someone out there may be able to save me poor aching eyes................
Ta
Last edited by Hone22; 14th Jul 2002 at 02:29.
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Bell 47D-1 Check list
I am teaching a student to fly in a Bell 47D-1. His past instructor did not use a check list. I made up a check list from recommended daily inspection from the original flight manual and added items that needed to be checked. Does anyone have a checklist from a flight school who uses Bell 47's? If anyone has any please e-mail to [email protected].
I have flown in numerous makes and models and Fly a MD 500C every day. The Bell 47 has to be the best training aircraft I have flown. Any comments welcome.
Skycop9
I have flown in numerous makes and models and Fly a MD 500C every day. The Bell 47 has to be the best training aircraft I have flown. Any comments welcome.
Skycop9
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I agree with you statement. If you can fly a B47 and KH4, you can fly anything...Try www.bluetonguehelicopters.com.au for your Check list.
If you still have no luck, I forward you our own ops one.
Cheers
If you still have no luck, I forward you our own ops one.
Cheers
Join Date: Jun 2002
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Skycop9,
How does it handle compared to the S300C. On my check ride oral Mario B. described the Bell 47 as "a man's machine." He said it's a good machine if you only fly it 2-3 hours a day, I guess it can be high maintence (like a wife).
Do you think it would be accepted by primary students ?
Ken
How does it handle compared to the S300C. On my check ride oral Mario B. described the Bell 47 as "a man's machine." He said it's a good machine if you only fly it 2-3 hours a day, I guess it can be high maintence (like a wife).
Do you think it would be accepted by primary students ?
Ken
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Ken,
It flies alot like the 300C, however, it is a little more stable. It is longer and hovering autos are better than the 300c. Autos are alot slower. Mario B. was right. It is a "man's helicopter"
skycop9::
WLM.
I tried the two web sites with no luck. If you email me I will provide you with my address and postage for the cost of the mailing of the check list.
Thanks,
Skycop9
It flies alot like the 300C, however, it is a little more stable. It is longer and hovering autos are better than the 300c. Autos are alot slower. Mario B. was right. It is a "man's helicopter"
skycop9::
WLM.
I tried the two web sites with no luck. If you email me I will provide you with my address and postage for the cost of the mailing of the check list.
Thanks,
Skycop9
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Check list
Skycop-
I agree with all comments above I am lucky to be a ble to fly a G3B1 out of Gloucester, flies very well, auto's are no problems at all. Looking to Go to Allan Manns to see what his hire rates are.
I have a copy of a G3B1. If you e-mail my colleague he owns Dutch Country Helicopters of Pennsylvania where we use 3 D1's for training, he will help you with the check list bits you require, his address is [email protected].
Bell 47 have there own web page and merchandise if your interested Click here: Bell 47 Helicopter Association
Safe Flying
Darren
I agree with all comments above I am lucky to be a ble to fly a G3B1 out of Gloucester, flies very well, auto's are no problems at all. Looking to Go to Allan Manns to see what his hire rates are.
I have a copy of a G3B1. If you e-mail my colleague he owns Dutch Country Helicopters of Pennsylvania where we use 3 D1's for training, he will help you with the check list bits you require, his address is [email protected].
Bell 47 have there own web page and merchandise if your interested Click here: Bell 47 Helicopter Association
Safe Flying
Darren
Stop the bus and let my brother Jack off
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Darren,
Went to the bell 47 fly in last week. Could not take the students aircraft as the transponder and radio are out. It had to be one of the best airshows that I have been to. I would recommend that anyone interested in helicopters attend the event. The helicopter museum was interesting. I was able to hook up with a pilot who had the Bell 47D1 check list. Thanks for the help.
Skycop9
Went to the bell 47 fly in last week. Could not take the students aircraft as the transponder and radio are out. It had to be one of the best airshows that I have been to. I would recommend that anyone interested in helicopters attend the event. The helicopter museum was interesting. I was able to hook up with a pilot who had the Bell 47D1 check list. Thanks for the help.
Skycop9