Bell 429
Maybe Bell will offer this as a refit for 427 owners? 
While it is early days, on paper at least, it looks to be a good thing. Nothing wrong with Bell's customer support.
Specs:
While it is early days, on paper at least, it looks to be a good thing. Nothing wrong with Bell's customer support.
Specs:
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Has anybody read anything on the "PATS" system that is supposedly going to revolutionise the new line of Bell products? All I know is that it apparently provides rearwards thrust in forward flight when reduced anti torque thrust is required, I used to work for a Bell OEM and this is all I could get out of them, I believe that it might still be just an unproven concept at this stage.
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During an interview last month, Red stated that work on PATS was still on-going, but the momentum really went out of the program when UCAR was cancelled. XworX was due to demo a full-scale PATS testbed this year, but Bell probably has other priorities right now.
PATS is really of greater use for military operators than civil users (reduced IR signature, dash speed), and with Bell having already dropped the tailfan due to 'negative feedback from a customer advisory panel' (plus other issues), the rumor is that the company has re-embraced 'conventional' tail rotor layouts such as the 429's scissors configuration for now.
I/C
PATS is really of greater use for military operators than civil users (reduced IR signature, dash speed), and with Bell having already dropped the tailfan due to 'negative feedback from a customer advisory panel' (plus other issues), the rumor is that the company has re-embraced 'conventional' tail rotor layouts such as the 429's scissors configuration for now.
I/C
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Can the backboard only be loaded through the clamshell doors, or is there a side-loading option? I really don't like the idea of loading through the back with that low tail rotor out there. I think our med crews will like the idea even less.
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Veering wildly off-topic, Janes reports this weekend that Bell’s PATS propulsive anti-torque system (see above) is now to be tested on a U.S. Marine Corps AH-1Z Viper under DARPA’s FY-07 budget. Hope it gets further than Piasecki’s VTDP.
I/C
I/C
Bill Stromberg one of the engineers on the programme says they are addressing the low tail rotor problem as they are aware of concerns expressed and will fit 'some sort of' guard to stop crew walking into the low rear rotor. It seems quite clear that they are a bit unclear how this will work so it must be only on paper at the moment.
Bell have looked at a number of alternative options for replacing the tail rotor but again the story appears to be 'some sort of' new anti-torque system. Certainly no technology description was extracted and I suspect that little if any flight testing of the new system has yet taken place.
What is it?
Well it seems to be like Notar but rather than Coanda effect and lots of cold air from a seperately driven fan this sounds as if it might be a combination including hot efflux from the engine. Perhaps something like Cierva worked on back in 1948 or so.
The alternative system is simply not yet available for production and it will not be available for at least another three years.
At least the cabin looks just the thing the industry wants - THIS TIME!
Bell have looked at a number of alternative options for replacing the tail rotor but again the story appears to be 'some sort of' new anti-torque system. Certainly no technology description was extracted and I suspect that little if any flight testing of the new system has yet taken place.
What is it?
Well it seems to be like Notar but rather than Coanda effect and lots of cold air from a seperately driven fan this sounds as if it might be a combination including hot efflux from the engine. Perhaps something like Cierva worked on back in 1948 or so.
The alternative system is simply not yet available for production and it will not be available for at least another three years.
At least the cabin looks just the thing the industry wants - THIS TIME!
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Very, very nice machine on first appearances. As a flight paramedic myself I would have a concern for the low tail rotor, but that could be ameliorated with proper training.
I would love to get my hands on one of these, but in reality there is no way that we will ever see one in South Africa. Not when have only 5 EMS helo's in the whole country due to the expense (I am open to correction on this figure, but I believe I am right). A lot of people die unnecessarily because of this, but the money is not there so what can we do?
Cheers, and happy flying.
I would love to get my hands on one of these, but in reality there is no way that we will ever see one in South Africa. Not when have only 5 EMS helo's in the whole country due to the expense (I am open to correction on this figure, but I believe I am right). A lot of people die unnecessarily because of this, but the money is not there so what can we do?
Cheers, and happy flying.
Last edited by flightmedic1; 4th Apr 2006 at 12:33.
Theres always hope for the future
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Re: the tail rotor: I suppose you could load from the side when hot and use the clamshell doors only when loading cold. Seems workable. Whatever happened to the fenestron Bell tested on a 407 a few years ago? PANews, a NOTAR-like system that uses 'hot efflux from the engine'? What if the engines quit?
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Ned -
I'm not counting the surf rescue, just the dedicated EMS machines. And as I said, I am open to correction on that number because I've lost track of the number (having worked overseas for the last couple of years).
I'm not counting the surf rescue, just the dedicated EMS machines. And as I said, I am open to correction on that number because I've lost track of the number (having worked overseas for the last couple of years).
PANews, a NOTAR-like system that uses 'hot efflux from the engine'? What if the engines quit?
Don't ask me! I am only the messenger.
Like many others to me the real technology of this 'notar like' system remains a mystery. Perhaps that is just how Bell want it. After all they were not exactly forthcoming with the reasons they dumped the fenestron. They probably have 'Commercial Confidential' issues!
A certain company once claimed to the effect that its system removed the danger of tail rotor failure. But then lost an airframe because the fan failed and the Coanda effect was not enough on the day. So even if we are talking about 'hot efflux from the engine' it would be no different to any other system when the fire went out and the t/r lost effect.
There are plenty of t/r failures that do not lead to undue drama and plenty of types that do not really sit in the hover because their recovery profile is not exactly docile. Similarly forward speed may remove the element of danger when the fire goes out to the 'new Bell system' as well as it does for airframes today.
I guess we will get the explanation of the technology when Bell are good and ready.
Thats assuming they even know themselves!
Don't ask me! I am only the messenger.
Like many others to me the real technology of this 'notar like' system remains a mystery. Perhaps that is just how Bell want it. After all they were not exactly forthcoming with the reasons they dumped the fenestron. They probably have 'Commercial Confidential' issues!
A certain company once claimed to the effect that its system removed the danger of tail rotor failure. But then lost an airframe because the fan failed and the Coanda effect was not enough on the day. So even if we are talking about 'hot efflux from the engine' it would be no different to any other system when the fire went out and the t/r lost effect.
There are plenty of t/r failures that do not lead to undue drama and plenty of types that do not really sit in the hover because their recovery profile is not exactly docile. Similarly forward speed may remove the element of danger when the fire goes out to the 'new Bell system' as well as it does for airframes today.
I guess we will get the explanation of the technology when Bell are good and ready.
Thats assuming they even know themselves!
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Bell 429 progress?
The mock up of the Bell 429 looked pretty good at Duxford last year, though seems to have gone a bit quiet since. Anyone know how it's progressing?
Any recent info such as when IFR acft deliveries start, UK/Europe certification target date, configuration (skids/wheels), latest forecasts on all normal performance data etc welcomed.
Is Bell - at last - going to produce a serious competitor to the A109 Power/Grand EC135 for SPIFR corporate use?
Any recent info such as when IFR acft deliveries start, UK/Europe certification target date, configuration (skids/wheels), latest forecasts on all normal performance data etc welcomed.
Is Bell - at last - going to produce a serious competitor to the A109 Power/Grand EC135 for SPIFR corporate use?
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Some googling...
From Bell themselves:
http://www.bellhelicopter.textron.co...al/bell429.cfm
http://www.bellhelicopter.com/en/air...2bell%20429%22
Other sources:
http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRTypen/FRB429.htm
http://www.ainonline.com/issues/06_0...bell429_66.htm
I imagine prototypes are about to be put through all sorts of development and durability testing. Then there will be any development redesigns before pre-production.
Interesting to see that Bell also seem to be sticking with 4-blade rigid rotor. This seems to be a popular system, so good response and low vibration levels is the new bar. Speed next?
Mart
http://www.bellhelicopter.textron.co...al/bell429.cfm
http://www.bellhelicopter.com/en/air...2bell%20429%22
Other sources:
http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRTypen/FRB429.htm
http://www.ainonline.com/issues/06_0...bell429_66.htm
I imagine prototypes are about to be put through all sorts of development and durability testing. Then there will be any development redesigns before pre-production.
Interesting to see that Bell also seem to be sticking with 4-blade rigid rotor. This seems to be a popular system, so good response and low vibration levels is the new bar. Speed next?
Mart
Last edited by Graviman; 5th Oct 2006 at 01:15.