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Bell 429

Old 18th Nov 2012, 14:29
  #321 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Hi Savoia,

Was looking at Bell's Facebook page in particular the Airshow China in Zhuhai pics where the Bell 429 (the Reingwood Star Aviation ) and Bell 407 on static are shown adorned with Red Bull logos.

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Old 18th Nov 2012, 20:46
  #322 (permalink)  
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RR: For some reason I am unable to access the file advertised in your link. What is it about please?

Chopper: Probably something to do with the next Chinese 'Year of the Bull' .. given that it shares the same numerals as this year!
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Old 3rd Mar 2013, 20:14
  #323 (permalink)  
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What are you going to hoist, a chicken? I believe that is the most you can carry with enough fuel to fly and someone to operate the hoist.
This look like hoist size for more than average chicken

See last issue of Ned's HeliOps, too.
Assuming CH is still within EASA land.... any comment ?

Last edited by 9Aplus; 3rd Mar 2013 at 20:16.
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Old 3rd Mar 2013, 20:56
  #324 (permalink)  
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Docket No.: FAA-2012-0123
Petitioner: Bell Helicopter Textron Canada Limited
Section of 14 CFR Affected: Sec. 27.1
Description of Relief Sought: The exemption would permit an
increase in the maximum gross weight of the Bell 429 from 7,000 pounds
to 7,500 pounds to enable the aircraft to carry additional safety
related equipment and fuel. The relief would result in an expanded
radius of operation for Helicopter Air Ambulance operations, increased
capability and availability for public safety operations and improved
efficiency and safety for American petroleum and utility industry
It appears to be penned by a lawyer to appeal to the bleeding heart brigade -

expanded radius of operation for Helicopter Air Ambulance operations
increased capability and availability for public safety operations
improved efficiency and safety for American petroleum and utility industry operations
Of course nothing to do with the following -

Too heavy for Part 27

Should have been built to Part 29 and isn't and cant be.

Tail trying to wag the dog.

If it does get through I can see a few other manufacturers going "Me too Mr FAA?"
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Old 3rd Mar 2013, 21:36
  #325 (permalink)  
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Must be pretty clean air they burn over in the Alps....

Not much of a filter for the ol' Pratts on that chicken hoister.
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Old 4th Mar 2013, 00:29
  #326 (permalink)  
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I just want to say that I had a chance to fly the 429 for 01+30 and I thought it was absolutely AWESOME!!

(I have flown Almost every Agusta and Bell Before, and this by far has been my favorite helicopter!!)
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Old 4th Mar 2013, 00:37
  #327 (permalink)  
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I have been flying the 429 on and off over the last 12 months, done around 70 hours in her now, I agree with Blender it is fantastic, I fly the Agusta and EC product, but the 429 is incredible.
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Old 4th Mar 2013, 10:33
  #328 (permalink)  
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can or can not be the case, that an nice sized chick and escorting chick rescuer,
be hoisted longer than 10 - 15 min on B429 or not. (in CH under EASA)
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Old 4th Mar 2013, 15:46
  #329 (permalink)  
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Figures I have for sea level (if that is any good) are 4 crew (drivers 2, talking baggage 2) can pick up 2 fat chickens (360 lbs)and fly them around the sky for just over an hour with 20 min VFR reserves (total fuel of 750 lbs). Thats at the 7000 lb limit. EEW around 5170.

Expensive free rangers but could be a goer if marketed right.
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Old 4th Mar 2013, 22:22
  #330 (permalink)  
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"Talking baggage 2" Now that cracked me up.
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Old 4th Mar 2013, 23:03
  #331 (permalink)  
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I hope the FAA will use to address Part 27 shortcomings like:

An aircraft shall be flyable with the failure of one hydraulic system.

On one hydraulic system the aircraft will suffer no controlability issues during the edges of the flight envelope.

Should not burn to the ground after a survivable crash.

Fault tolerance: At pre-HAI presentations today data presented on the 427/429 showed the main transmission could last 4 HOURS after loss of the main Xmsn lube system. This was done at 30 minutes at min flying torque, max range torque, and then in increments of increasing torque every 30 minutes. Each range was chained in one run with each increment lasting 30 minutes. BEATS HELL OUT OF 12 MINUTES FOR THE PART 29 S-92.

The Sultan
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Old 5th Mar 2013, 02:56
  #332 (permalink)  
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Yep, and it should have more than one drive to the cooling system!

AWM Chapter 527, section 529.903(b) for Category A – Engine or Drive System
Cooling Fan Blade Protection – Both cooling fans are driven by the tail-rotor drive shaft
and a single failure will cause loss of function of both. This does not meet the Category A
requirements. Bell demonstrated that loss of function of both cooling fans did not effect
continued safe flight.
Of course if you fit the following -

• Garmin 530W with Helicopter Terrain Awareness Warning System (HTAWS)
• Cockpit Voice Recorder/FlightData Recorder (CVR/FDR)
• Flashing Forward Light
• Radar Altimeter

Everything is OK and you can hang with the big dogs in Part 29!

Dont get the forward flashing light and how that was substantiated but hey? Maybe it is for the deaf birds so long as they are not looking the other way?

Transport Canada issued an exemption against the definition in AWM 527.1(a) (equivalent
to FAR 27.1(a)) to allow a MTOW above the limit of 7000 lb. This was issued on the basis
that the Bell 429 is certified as a single-pilot IFR helicopter with dual autopilot system and
is approved for Category A operations under FAR Part 29 Appendix C. In addition it has
fitted as standard many features which exceed the basic requirements of Part 27. This
equipment increases the operational safety but brings an empty weight penalty. Transport
Canada concluded it was in the public interest to allow for an increase in MTOW to 7500 lb
to restore the load-carrying capacity of the helicopter
, subject to the following conditions: It
is only applicable when the manufacturer’s optional kit 429-706-079 is incorporated; No
increase in the number of occupants is permitted; Life-limited components had to be reassessed
for the effects of the weight increase; and specified safety equipment is required to
be fitted (CVR/FDR, HTAWS, Rad.Alt., Dual Autopilot and bird repellent device[forward
flashing lights]).
Certainly a strange scenario when you consider how long Part 27 and 29 have been in existence.

showed the main transmission could last 4 HOURS after loss of the main Xmsn lube system
And so it should!

Moot point from the marketing department - you would have run out of gas long before that!

The FAA's angle -

FAA Rejects Bell 429 Weight Increase
Going against the grain of other regulatory agencies around the globe and the requests of Bell 429 operators in the U.S., FAA has denied a request from Bell Helicopter to increase the max gross weight of the 429 from 7,000 to 7,500 lbs. Transport Canada approved the weight increase in January 2012, with several others nations giving the go-ahead through the course of 2012. In July, Argentina joined 10 other countries that have approved the weight increase, including Brazil, Ecuador, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Philippines and Vietnam.
Bell was seeking an exemption from 14 CFR section 27.1 (a) for the 500-lb increase. The FAA found that granting the exemption “would not be in the public interest.” The ruling followed an analysis that concludes “while the level of safety may be enhanced by the approved installation of additional certified equipment, the FAA does not agree that this can or should be accomplished through the granting of a blanket exemption from the applicability of a Part 29 rotorcraft weighing more than 7,000 lbs.”
FAA also pointed to an “economic advantage” that Bell Canada and other 429 operators would receive with the approval over other Part 27 competitors that are limited to 7,000 lbs, and noted that it could upset the “FAA and EASA harmonized type certification and airworthiness standards.”
Describing Bell Canada’s application for the increase as a “business decision” that would directly benefit Bell 429 operators, the FAA argued that comparable Part 29 helicopters in a similar weight class would be “at a disadvantage since they were required to meet more costly Part 29 certification requirements.”
The FAA ruling followed a series of petitions from Bell 429 operators, other helicopter manufacturers and regulatory agencies. Many operators noted the increased capabilities and safety benefits from being able to install more equipment such as H-TAWS, digital engine controls, radio altimeter, wide area augmentation system (WAAS), night vision goggles and wire strike protection, among others. One of Bell Helicopter’s arguments centered around an estimate of creating 400 new jobs, with 300 of those in the United States. Bell estimates that “429 ship sales in the next five years will go from 150 to 500 ships and $150 million in direct supplier sales will be generated to support production” with the approval, adding that another 1,600 indirect jobs would be created long term, according to FAA.
But the manufacturer and 429 operators were unable to convince FAA to approve the exemption. “We agree that jobs in the United States could be created with the sale of more than 300 new helicopters. If there is a demand for that many helicopters, then helicopter manufacturers will fill that need.” FAA added that, “ we believe jobs will be added regardless of the manufacturer… However, it is important to remember that a decision to exempt an applicant from FAA safety standards is, and should remain, primarily a safety decision.” The agency also noted that it has received a number of requests for exemptions related to section 27.1, typically denying the requests. FAA has only granted an exemption “in one situation, directly related to rulemaking that increased the weight limitation for all Part 27 helicopters.” FAA has also agreed to examine whether the take-off weight standard for Part 27 aircraft should be updated.
Maybe in the future but not today.

I always wondered when I first saw the aircraft and being well familiar with the 2 other types powered by the PW200 Series engine in maintenance and flight ops - I had to ask someone - "What is this thing made of? Does someone in Bell Engineering know something no one else does"

Last edited by RVDT; 5th Mar 2013 at 03:14.
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Old 8th Mar 2013, 16:05
  #333 (permalink)  
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Seen the new pics on the Media Gallery on Bell 429 product page with the retractable landing gear prototype being flown
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Old 8th Mar 2013, 16:46
  #334 (permalink)  
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Old 9th Mar 2013, 04:46
  #335 (permalink)  
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Hah, looking at the first pic, I thought "ooh, retractable skids... how novel!"
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Old 10th Mar 2013, 03:54
  #336 (permalink)  
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The photos of the 429 with retractable undercarriage are from the Bell website and this configuration is long overdue - I know of at least one lost sale because the buyer wanted to operate from an airport where hover-taxiing was impractical.

But, as with all retractable undercarriages, the effectiveness of the emergency lowering system will be vital - I know of wheels-up landings because this feature failed on the B222, EC332 and S76.
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Old 10th Mar 2013, 10:42
  #337 (permalink)  
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It looks good with the gear up, but with it down it looks a bit like a children's toy..
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Old 12th Mar 2013, 15:19
  #338 (permalink)  
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Brilliant stuff,

where is the like button for your comment. Bell, continuing to try and catch up but no "new" designs. Just recycling of old ideas.

I am sure it is a lovely helicopter, but not in the league of the EC stable. I can not comment on the AW stable, but they look way ahead of the US product.

Great to see Bell moving ahead with a "New" model. I am sure that it will be reliable and sell a lot however, I hope I am wrong ( I often am) about it's agricultural appearance and agricultural heritage.

End of the day, we and our customers are benefitting from a higher standard of aircraft being provided by all manufacturers.

Just popping on my carbon casque for the incoming.

Doors Off
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Old 12th Mar 2013, 15:51
  #339 (permalink)  
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When the 429 was originally launched at HAI some years ago both the skid and wheeled versions of the mock-up were displayed. Clearly Bell decided to concentrate on what they considered the more popular/marketable design..... and chose the one with the EC120 look alike skids..... ooops.

Anyway, its not exactly new just deferred.
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Old 12th Mar 2013, 19:05
  #340 (permalink)  
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Given the increase in the OEW of the wheeled gear 429, one suspects TC's IGW approval also had something to do with the timing...

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