Robinson R44
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Michigan USA
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Yes, like Mutt said, it would be a clearance problem with the blade to tail. It's only an issue to new pilots IMO. Once you get used to flying it, it's like flying anything else so why bother even trying to change the design?
You said you instruct "now in the 44 as well," which implies that it is a fairly new machine to you? You'll notice the more you fly it the less it'll be an issue and as you see your students progress, you'll see it's of little issue to them as well... especially if they come from the 22 into the 44.
You said you instruct "now in the 44 as well," which implies that it is a fairly new machine to you? You'll notice the more you fly it the less it'll be an issue and as you see your students progress, you'll see it's of little issue to them as well... especially if they come from the 22 into the 44.
the swaying will disapear
Join Date: Oct 2003
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I am fairly new to the R44 but with over 5,000 hours I am not new to helicopters. I agree that the pedals start an oscillation but I am still curious as to why it was designed with such a small yoke and long mast. Any ideas?
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Sarcasm.... Not very nice....Why the long mast you ask???
Lets just say this, i'm sure franky has designed it to its best capabilties!! Hence, looks don't really come into effect... If the aerodynamics work... Then dont f*** em up, and leave it as is... Thats probably how the design came about....!
If you think thats bad, picture the look o the due R66!!??
The pendulum moment doesn't come across as a problem, more of a factor to adapt to i think... the worst problem ive seen with the robbys (R22 mostly) is the tail boom, never had a problem with it myself, but ive seen them clobbered a couple of times, not nice at all!!
Luckily helis on the ground at time! Tail booms sent back to california for repair.... Yeowser...
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Denmark
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R 44 in the envelope
I have one R 44 Clipper II in a JAR-OPS 3 setup in Denmark sinse aug 05 Factory new delivery. Short intro: S-61 Royal Danish Air force SAR aprox. 500 hours and amongst others some 50 "life saving missions" in the North Sea, typical november, lowpressure 960 or less, night, iceing conditions, rain sleet or snow up to 100 knot windspeeds, high waves, what have you.
I was 22 (1972) and now I am too old for any of that hot ****.
Comming back to the Robinson 44 - I have done some 1500 flights over 3 years and I say "I don't like it, I love it ! "
The R-44 is one friendly thrustworthy ship to operate. As with any other pease of technology, if you operate in accordance with the design philosophy and applicable limitations, she will take you there and back with a great deal of confidence in your stomace.
If you take a Ferrari through a long high speed curve along the lee side of a wood in fall, and fly off the road due to slippery leaves on the road, don't blame the car ...
Hope this was not to direct, it is just that my R-44 and I are pals ...
Fly safely youall ...
I was 22 (1972) and now I am too old for any of that hot ****.
Comming back to the Robinson 44 - I have done some 1500 flights over 3 years and I say "I don't like it, I love it ! "
The R-44 is one friendly thrustworthy ship to operate. As with any other pease of technology, if you operate in accordance with the design philosophy and applicable limitations, she will take you there and back with a great deal of confidence in your stomace.
If you take a Ferrari through a long high speed curve along the lee side of a wood in fall, and fly off the road due to slippery leaves on the road, don't blame the car ...
Hope this was not to direct, it is just that my R-44 and I are pals ...
Fly safely youall ...
Join Date: Mar 2006
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I thought the pendulum was from stirring the pot.
The Robinsons are very sensitive. The aircraft will only move because you make it!
IF you came from a B47 and your handling skills were a bit 'sloppy' then you will be moving about in the R44. I don't mean this as a criticism, just an observation. I went from an MD500 to a robbie and my handling skills were lousy. Simply being too heavy on the controls.
Be really light and don't move and it will stay where you want it to.
Try jumping to and from an R22 to a B206 and back on the same day, same handling skill needed.
As one of my chief pilots asked me, are you flying it or is it flying you?
The Robinsons are very sensitive. The aircraft will only move because you make it!
IF you came from a B47 and your handling skills were a bit 'sloppy' then you will be moving about in the R44. I don't mean this as a criticism, just an observation. I went from an MD500 to a robbie and my handling skills were lousy. Simply being too heavy on the controls.
Be really light and don't move and it will stay where you want it to.
Try jumping to and from an R22 to a B206 and back on the same day, same handling skill needed.
As one of my chief pilots asked me, are you flying it or is it flying you?
My instructor (15000+ hrs of heli time) claims that the R44 is the squirreliest heli on landing that he has come across - specifically its tendency to sway around just when you thought you were about to land. Speaking from the height of my 16 hrs or so of heli time, it seems to be something you get on top of fairly quickly. I've noticed that my instructor does "stir the stick" noticeably during touchdown. (I can't say what I do, at my level if I started trying to observe myself at the moment of touchdown it would certainly go wrong.)
n5296s
n5296s
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I was told to stir the cyclic to reduce the pendulum effect and I think it works to some degree. However, I come back to the original question: why not make the yoke larger and reduce the length of the mast and therefore the pendulum effect? On the Robinson safety course they said the mast length was to help with C of G but I can't see that being right.
Join Date: Nov 2001
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In a two blade gymbal head rotor as on the R44, the wider the potential C of G range, the taller the mast has to be to retain sufficient fore and aft cyclic control for the extremes of Vne in forward flight and demonstrated downwind capability or rearwards movement in the hover.
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Overspeed
I have been asked some questions on MR overspeed by a non-forumite ( foreigner/ poor English!). I don't feel qualifed to fully answer them, hence my post to pick the brains of you experts out there -
1. My understanding is that the spindle bearings suffer rapid wear if the thing has suffered an overspeed. If an aircraft has done, say 50 hours since an overspeed and seems otherwise perfectly normal - is it likely that the damage will be restricted purely to the spindle bearings?
2. Would you always change both bearings if one is found to be damaged and the other looks OK?
3. If the thing has suffered a MR overspeed, is there an immediate check that can be carried out? I would guess that's the time to sell a machine - 'oops, somebody elses problem'...
4. How much are the bearings from Robinsons and how many hours does the job take?
Thanks a lot.
JB
1. My understanding is that the spindle bearings suffer rapid wear if the thing has suffered an overspeed. If an aircraft has done, say 50 hours since an overspeed and seems otherwise perfectly normal - is it likely that the damage will be restricted purely to the spindle bearings?
2. Would you always change both bearings if one is found to be damaged and the other looks OK?
3. If the thing has suffered a MR overspeed, is there an immediate check that can be carried out? I would guess that's the time to sell a machine - 'oops, somebody elses problem'...
4. How much are the bearings from Robinsons and how many hours does the job take?
Thanks a lot.
JB
1. My understanding is that the spindle bearings suffer rapid wear if the thing has suffered an overspeed. If an aircraft has done, say 50 hours since an overspeed and seems otherwise perfectly normal - is it likely that the damage will be restricted purely to the spindle bearings?
2. Would you always change both bearings if one is found to be damaged and the other looks OK?
3. If the thing has suffered a MR overspeed, is there an immediate check that can be carried out? I would guess that's the time to sell a machine - 'oops, somebody elses problem'...
4. How much are the bearings from Robinsons and how many hours does the job take?
2. Would you always change both bearings if one is found to be damaged and the other looks OK?
3. If the thing has suffered a MR overspeed, is there an immediate check that can be carried out? I would guess that's the time to sell a machine - 'oops, somebody elses problem'...
4. How much are the bearings from Robinsons and how many hours does the job take?
2. Would make some sort of sense, since both will have been oversped. Are you a pilot ?
3. Yes. Lift blades off. Takes about 2hrs with 2/3 engineers. Selling-on to a sensible customer would involve an inspection by an engineer - and the first abuse they look for is MR and engine overspeeds.
4. Suggest you call a reliable, busy maintenance company like Heli Air and get the latest prices - parts subject to dollar flucs.
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Suggest you call a reliable, busy maintenance company like Heli Air and get the latest prices - parts subject to dollar flucs.
They will have an interesting list of costs of repair which may resemble a graph , like Y=Xcubed or maybe Y=Xto the power 4.
I bet you whatever it is it will be cheaper than someones' life if you or someone else misrepresents the true data.
Red On, Green On
Join Date: May 2004
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I would guess that's the time to sell a machine - 'oops, somebody elses problem'...
Join Date: Feb 2008
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MR overspeed
Thanks for the reply, I was beginning to think that the R44 Corner was going a bit stale hence my fresh post.
You describe an ideal world. If only others were as responsible as you and I.
Its also possible i guess for a new pilot to inadvertantly overspeed the MR and actually not fully realise what they have done.
JB
You describe an ideal world. If only others were as responsible as you and I.
Its also possible i guess for a new pilot to inadvertantly overspeed the MR and actually not fully realise what they have done.
JB
Its also possible i guess for a new pilot to inadvertantly overspeed the MR and actually not fully realise what they have done.
As most MR overspeeds are done whilst descending, they should be easily avoided.
Similarly, there are a lot of engine overspeeds at start-up. Simply avoided by checking the throttle is closed before pushing the button. If that means you have to look down at the arrow on the collective to remind yourself, then do so. It's a one-second check that saves about £20,000.
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MR overspeed
Hi Jim,
An overspeed on start-up is a nightmare scenario and, I agree, easily done. I know of a school with a mandatory customer insurance policy - two hundred quid a year AFAIAA - on their self-fly hire fleet.
Do you share the advice of some that if you need to crack the throttle open to start a hot engine its best to switch the governor off as an additional safeguard?
So easy to overspeed the MR during Auto practice, especially in the turns.
J
An overspeed on start-up is a nightmare scenario and, I agree, easily done. I know of a school with a mandatory customer insurance policy - two hundred quid a year AFAIAA - on their self-fly hire fleet.
Do you share the advice of some that if you need to crack the throttle open to start a hot engine its best to switch the governor off as an additional safeguard?
So easy to overspeed the MR during Auto practice, especially in the turns.
J