Rolls Royce RR500
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 240
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rolls Royce RR500
Has anyone heard of any helicopter retrofit STC's in the planning for the RR500?
RR500 turboshaft - Rolls-Royce
Interesting that the mounts are the same dimensions for the RR250 so it would have been designed for retrofits.
RR500 turboshaft - Rolls-Royce
Interesting that the mounts are the same dimensions for the RR250 so it would have been designed for retrofits.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The South Coast
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why would anyone want to use the RR500 when the C20R with the power enhancement modifications can easily achieve in excess of 500 SHP at take off, with over 400 SHP at normal cruise?
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: 1 Dunghill Mansions, Putney
Posts: 1,797
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Originally Posted by Bellsux
Interesting that the mounts are the same dimensions for the RR250
So much for progress...
I/C
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 240
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah I do agree that it is an old design that has been redrawn but I do see the logic behind it as it would make installation into the 206 and 500 etc a lot easier. Sometimes 're badging' can show real changes (AS350B - BA - B2 - B3) and other times not so much... Bell 205 - Bell 210.
For the operators flying 300 hrs a year chugging around the UK from airfield to airfield with a couple of pax it would not be a viable option to swap out the engine but for an operator that really needs the hot and high performance it would make sense. Trying to get off the ground in a 206 on a 40 degree day with some sort of load is not uncommon with a lot of operators around here. So it is not the pure horsepower enhancement operators need as the 206 airframe can only take so much anyway but an engine that doesn't run out of puff.
Would the 2000 / 4000 TBO justify the extra costs of retrofiting?
How much better is the 'improved gearing', does this mean it can go to TBO without pulling a chip plug?
I like the absense of the axial compressor, no more 300 hr case half splits.
Are there any enhancements to the turbine? single crystal blades?
Anyway I am not a big fan of the RR250 series but interested in this design as it does seem like a big improvement on a lot of things I hated in the old... as for the fuel control I wish they could make one as good as the Arriel for the 250 series.
For the operators flying 300 hrs a year chugging around the UK from airfield to airfield with a couple of pax it would not be a viable option to swap out the engine but for an operator that really needs the hot and high performance it would make sense. Trying to get off the ground in a 206 on a 40 degree day with some sort of load is not uncommon with a lot of operators around here. So it is not the pure horsepower enhancement operators need as the 206 airframe can only take so much anyway but an engine that doesn't run out of puff.
Would the 2000 / 4000 TBO justify the extra costs of retrofiting?
How much better is the 'improved gearing', does this mean it can go to TBO without pulling a chip plug?
I like the absense of the axial compressor, no more 300 hr case half splits.
Are there any enhancements to the turbine? single crystal blades?
Anyway I am not a big fan of the RR250 series but interested in this design as it does seem like a big improvement on a lot of things I hated in the old... as for the fuel control I wish they could make one as good as the Arriel for the 250 series.
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: At Work
Posts: 292
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is very rare that an engine shop can produce 500 SHP out of a 450SHP engine on a consistent basis. This would yield +12% engine. In some cases, you may get an engine off a test cell that may produce that type of power on a run but the engine will not sustain that type of excess performance through the required hot section interval let alone the whole overhaul. If you know someone who can consistently build a +12% R engine that holds that power advantage all 3500 hours, have them email me, I will finance them in an overhaul shop.
The series II engine has been massaged, poked, prodded and modified to get to 450 SHP in the R version. Even with the enhancement kit, that engine has simply run into the laws of physics.
Ambient temperature is a problem with the R engines. In hot climates, the performance drops off very quickly minimizing the advantages of the R. It is not just SHP at sea level but SHP in the operators environment. Because R's are pushing the limit of its fundamental design, they have a much higher incidence of turbine rubs, coking and compressor stalls.
There are two basic reasons for the RR500.
1) The new compressor section is more efficient, less costly to maintain and will provide more power. This compressor section is similar to those used in series III (c30) and series IV (c47) engines. The hot section has higher TBO and re-designed blades and nozzles. The combination of these re-designs results in more SHP and much less fall off of SHP in hot or high temp uses.
2) Rolls Royce hates the PMA market as it costs them tons of lost revenue and profit. With the exception of turbine wheels, you can buy just about every other part for a series II model 250 either through PMA manufacturers or through sellers of serviceable used parts. Say what you want about a model 250, but there are tons of them in use all over the world, they can be worked on by thousands of mechanics, they can be overhauled at both RR authorized and non-authorized shops and the result is that they are cheaper to run by the hour horsepower for horsepower. So......re-design the engine, tell the FAA it is "all new" and presto, you get to re-monopolize the parts, component parts, component overhaul, engine overhaul and engine repair business for your authorized shops.
The purpose of the engine is to make a better mousetrap, but also to make one that is more profitable for the manufacturer.
But maybe I am a cynic and they are really trying to do it for altruistic reasons....
The series II engine has been massaged, poked, prodded and modified to get to 450 SHP in the R version. Even with the enhancement kit, that engine has simply run into the laws of physics.
Ambient temperature is a problem with the R engines. In hot climates, the performance drops off very quickly minimizing the advantages of the R. It is not just SHP at sea level but SHP in the operators environment. Because R's are pushing the limit of its fundamental design, they have a much higher incidence of turbine rubs, coking and compressor stalls.
There are two basic reasons for the RR500.
1) The new compressor section is more efficient, less costly to maintain and will provide more power. This compressor section is similar to those used in series III (c30) and series IV (c47) engines. The hot section has higher TBO and re-designed blades and nozzles. The combination of these re-designs results in more SHP and much less fall off of SHP in hot or high temp uses.
2) Rolls Royce hates the PMA market as it costs them tons of lost revenue and profit. With the exception of turbine wheels, you can buy just about every other part for a series II model 250 either through PMA manufacturers or through sellers of serviceable used parts. Say what you want about a model 250, but there are tons of them in use all over the world, they can be worked on by thousands of mechanics, they can be overhauled at both RR authorized and non-authorized shops and the result is that they are cheaper to run by the hour horsepower for horsepower. So......re-design the engine, tell the FAA it is "all new" and presto, you get to re-monopolize the parts, component parts, component overhaul, engine overhaul and engine repair business for your authorized shops.
The purpose of the engine is to make a better mousetrap, but also to make one that is more profitable for the manufacturer.
But maybe I am a cynic and they are really trying to do it for altruistic reasons....
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 601
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RR500 vs the 250...
The RR500 has more torque and different shaft dynamics than a 250. So, even though it might be physically similar, the RR500 would not be a direct replacement for a helo certified for a 250. The MRGB would not likely have the torque capacity for the RR500.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 240
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
22 Feb, 10
Rolls-Royce, the global power systems company, and Bell Helicopter have signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) to explore options for the retrofit of the Bell 206B JetRanger helicopters with the RR500TS (turboshaft) engine. The RR500TS was launched in 2009 as part of the RR family of engines that includes the RR500 turboprop and turboshaft and the RR300 turboshaft engines.
The MOU will allow the joint evaluation of third party suppliers to develop RR500TS Supplemental Type Certificate (STC) retrofit kits replacing the M250 engines that currently power the JetRanger. The JetRanger is a five-seat, light turbine helicopter used in corporate, utility, law enforcement and homeland security missions. More than 5000 aircraft have been delivered, clocking 38 million flight hours to date.
Ken Roberts, President of the Rolls-Royce Helicopter Engine business, said: “We are pleased to be taking this step with our long-time customer and partner, Bell Helicopter. A retrofit of Bell 206B JetRangers with the newest member of our RR family of engines will bring significant performance and reliability benefits to the owners of the JetRanger. The RR500 turboshaft engine is ideally suited for customers who are seeking technologically advanced, powerful, cost-efficient and affordable engines.”
In addition to offering more power at take-off and in hot-and-high conditions than existing engines in this class, the RR500TS will deliver operational benefits to customers through extended engine overhaul intervals and lower total ownership costs.
The RR500 core is a growth version of the RR300, which was launched in 2006 to power the Robinson R66. The RR300 was certified in late 2007 and is now in production. FAA type certification for the RR500 turboshaft is expected in late 2011, with production engines to follow.
Providing power from 300 shp to more than 7300 shp, Rolls-Royce has one of the broadest ranges of turboshaft engine families available in the world. Rolls-Royce helicopter engines power over 150 civil and military helicopter applications in more than 120 nations.
Rolls-Royce, the global power systems company, and Bell Helicopter have signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) to explore options for the retrofit of the Bell 206B JetRanger helicopters with the RR500TS (turboshaft) engine. The RR500TS was launched in 2009 as part of the RR family of engines that includes the RR500 turboprop and turboshaft and the RR300 turboshaft engines.
The MOU will allow the joint evaluation of third party suppliers to develop RR500TS Supplemental Type Certificate (STC) retrofit kits replacing the M250 engines that currently power the JetRanger. The JetRanger is a five-seat, light turbine helicopter used in corporate, utility, law enforcement and homeland security missions. More than 5000 aircraft have been delivered, clocking 38 million flight hours to date.
Ken Roberts, President of the Rolls-Royce Helicopter Engine business, said: “We are pleased to be taking this step with our long-time customer and partner, Bell Helicopter. A retrofit of Bell 206B JetRangers with the newest member of our RR family of engines will bring significant performance and reliability benefits to the owners of the JetRanger. The RR500 turboshaft engine is ideally suited for customers who are seeking technologically advanced, powerful, cost-efficient and affordable engines.”
In addition to offering more power at take-off and in hot-and-high conditions than existing engines in this class, the RR500TS will deliver operational benefits to customers through extended engine overhaul intervals and lower total ownership costs.
The RR500 core is a growth version of the RR300, which was launched in 2006 to power the Robinson R66. The RR300 was certified in late 2007 and is now in production. FAA type certification for the RR500 turboshaft is expected in late 2011, with production engines to follow.
Providing power from 300 shp to more than 7300 shp, Rolls-Royce has one of the broadest ranges of turboshaft engine families available in the world. Rolls-Royce helicopter engines power over 150 civil and military helicopter applications in more than 120 nations.
