Training & Flying in America: Visa information

[mortennb]

Originally Posted by i4iq

Because it's supposed to be work experience as a CFI - which is what you have trained to become.

Check out http://www.visapro.com/J1/J1-Visa.asp and the FAQ section.

Bizarre thing is, if you were married, your wife could apply for a work permit and be able to do whatever she liked!

Yeah, have been reading that. And a friend of mine who has a greencard says its a grey zone. Because it says that your allowed to gain experience from something directly related to your field of study.
And ofcourse I am taking CFI education since its almost the only way, but my friend told me the field of study is helicopter pilot, not CFI. CFI is something extra.

Correct me if I am mistaken.

[Simon853]

When I was planning to go to HAI I asked that same question of them. Their answer was that you are only allowed to work legally as a flight instructor on the J1. (But agreed, the definition itself doesn't seem to rule anything else out, since it states you're allowed to work using the professional qualification you trained for, which it could be argued is CPL, not CFI.)

Not only that but I believe the flight school administering the J1 also has responsibility for you sticking to the terms of the visa during your whole stay.

Si

[i4iq]

Simon853

You're right - which is why the US Govt want the work approval in writing.

The point about the J1 is that it is for cultural exchange purposes - not for getting a "regular" job.

A PM to HillerBee might help. He's been there and done it with J1's.

[MrEdd]

This is how i have understood it.
If your are employed bt any company you need to work as a CFI.
Now if that is 1hour in a year and you then do other jobs for the company dosenīt matter. You do need to do CFI work for them but as i wrote if itīs full time onl CFI work or 1hr CFI and the rest ex sling load it should be ok. This i how i have understood the rules.

BR Henrik Bjorklund

[mortennb]

Originally Posted by MrEdd

This is how i have understood it.
If your are employed bt any company you need to work as a CFI.
Now if that is 1hour in a year and you then do other jobs for the company dosenīt matter. You do need to do CFI work for them but as i wrote if itīs full time onl CFI work or 1hr CFI and the rest ex sling load it should be ok. This i how i have understood the rules.

BR Henrik Bjorklund

Yes, this is also how I have heard it before. Witch is pretty stupid if you ask me. And why they do it this way i dont know.
I got a set off regulations from a friend that might help.. Will check more.

[mortennb]

Originally Posted by zxcvbn

my j1 is stamped 'flight instruction only'

Are you talking about your visa in the passport?
If yes, my doesnt say anything about that....

[mortennb]

J-1

The regulations:
§ 62.74 Student employment.

(a) Students meeting the definition
listed in § 62.4(a)(1)(ii) and (iii) may engage
in student employment pursuant
to § 62.23(g).
(b) The responsible officer or alternate
responsible officer shall update
the exchange visitor’s SEVIS record to
reflect the details of such employment
pursuant to § 62.23(g) (1). An update of
the SEVIS record constitutes compliance
with § 62.23(g)(2) (iv).
§ 62.4

(a) Student. An individual who is:

(1) Studying in the United States:
(i) Pursuing a full course of study at
a secondary accredited educational institution;
(ii) Pursuing a full course of study
leading to or culminating in the award
of a U.S. degree from a post-secondary
accredited educational institution; or
(iii) Engaged full-time in a prescribed
course of study of up to 24 months duration
conducted by:
(A) A post-secondary accredited educational
institution; or
(B) An institute approved by or acceptable
to the post-secondary accredited
educational institution where the
student is to be enrolled upon completion
of the non-degree program;
§ 62.23 (g)
Student employment. Exchange visitor

students may engage in part-time
employment when the following criteria
and conditions are satisfied.
(1) The student employment:
(i) Is pursuant to the terms of a
scholarship, fellowship, or
assistantship;
(ii) Occurs on the premises of the
post-secondary accredited educational
institution the visitor is authorized to
attend; or
(iii) Occurs off-campus when necessary
because of serious, urgent, and
unforeseen economic circumstances
which have arisen since acquiring exchange
visitor status.
(2) Exchange visitor students may engage
in employment as provided in
paragraph (g)(1) of this section if the:
(i) Student is in good academic
standing at the post-secondary accredited
educational institution;
(ii) Student continues to engage in a
full course of study, except for official
school breaks and the student’s annual
vacation;
(iii) Employment totals no more than
20 hours per week, except during official
school breaks and the student’s annual
vacation; and
(iv) The responsible officer has approved
the specific employment in advance
and in writing. Such approval
may be valid up to twelve months, but
is automatically withdrawn if the student’s
program is terminated.

[i4iq]

Mortenb

I think you may not be reading the correct information for your situation.

As a J1 student, you can work any number of hours. You are not limited to the 20 hours detailed. This sounds more like an F1 or M1 scenario.

I'd check the section again, although I think the approval still needs to come from the officer.

[Bus Allergy]

American Training - It's Too Late

Why not train in an environment which does not require you to jump through all these ridiculous hoops just to enter the country?
Just the telephone call to arrange your visa appoinment is charged at a rate of Ģ72/hour. (London).
All these charges, the bureaucracy, the outdoor waiting; it should be telling you something...
America is only worth visiting should you have access to a time machine.
Good luck anyway.

[mortennb]

Anyone better?

Originally Posted by zxcvbn

bus allergy:

oh, you mean Britain, where they charge you 700 pounds just to sit your CPL checkride, 200 pounds just to print and issue your licence, 160 pounds for an LPC, 70 pounds for a type rating renewal, and 2000 pounds to study for the ATPL/CPL exams, and then you pay the equivalent US$400 to train on an R22, and then after you've spent 60,000 pounds... you end up doing trial lessons at weekends for 2 years just to build hours

and we wonder why people train abroad?

a bit of form-filling and a few hours queuing is not really many hoops to jump through to get a J1 visa

Dont think you can explain it better than that.

The R-22 is an avarage 200$/hour in the US btw.

[Jolarix]

I'm a Canadian citizen (Vancouver) who wants to train for CPL[H] and CFII and IR in the USA (Quantum Helicopters, Arizona).

If I get all my visas and permits to live/train/work in the USA, how can I use my FAA CPL[H] as a Canadian equivalent if I wish to return home to work in Canada, after my training?

Is there a special Canadian test I should take, or will my existing FAA license be sufficient to work in Canada, aswell as the USA?

[dogpaddy]

Infromation required about M1 and J1 visas.

First a little bit of background information:

UK JAA PPL(H)
75 hours TT in Enstrom/Schweizer.

I would like to go to the States to complete my training but would like to do so in the most efficient manner possible.

My questions are:

1. What qualifications can I train for on a M1 visa without ruining my chances of getting a J1 visa?

2. Is there a limit to the number of hours I can already have flown when applying for a J1 visa? I seem to have the figure of 100 hours in my mind but I can't remember if that is from a reliable source.

Thanks,

dogpaddy

[HillerBee]

You can train up to PPL/IR on a M-1 visa. As soon as you have a CPL it's over. You're apparantly only allowed to have a 100 hrs, but I can't find any official reference to that. When I got a J-1 I had 190 hrs already and nobody even asked about them.

However it's not a certainty that you get a J-1 after you had a M-1, I know there where some people who couldn't get a J-1 anymore. (Don't know the reason for that)

One thing you have to leave the country to get a J-1 and quite frankly you have to be really glad when you're in. Getting a visa doesn't mean anything until you passed immigration at the airport, they can decide to send you back like that.

[i4iq]

Not getting a J1 after an M1 is pretty rare and typically its from certain countries where they consider you more likely to stay illegally, after your visa expires.

The M1 is by far the most advantageous route if you get it to work as it leaves so much time on your visa to get the 1000 hours.

[dogpaddy]

Thanks for the information HillerBee & i4iq.

I have begun to realise that the visa process is highly subjective and despite what it states on the visa in your passport, the final decision whether you actually get into the country or not is the official that you meet at the arrival airport.

Hillerbee,

Are you sure that it is only the CPL that prevents issuance of a J-1 visa? Does that mean I can get IR, CFI and CFII qualified on an M1 visa?

After reading a lot on this forum I am led to believe that you were at HAI in Florida. Did you go the M1 then J1 route? And if not were there any others that were taking that route? I am also intending to go to HAI and I'm curious if the school would raise any objections.

Thanks,

dogpaddy

[i4iq]

Originally Posted by dogpaddy

Thanks for the information HillerBee & i4iq.

I have begun to realise that the visa process is highly subjective and despite what it states on the visa in your passport, the final decision whether you actually get into the country or not is the official that you meet at the arrival airport.

It's highly unlikely that you'll get turned back. There are some groups on Yahoo that discuss the issues a lot, which you might find useful reading.

I believe you are restricted to 150 hours before the J1 is no longer issued. But as you can see from HillerBee's example, some things slip through.

The students I know that have taken the M1/J1 route have not had a problem.

HAI will probably tell you that a J1 is not guaranteed. Of course, they want your money, so it's in their best interest for you to go straight for the J1.

You may also wish to consider Hillsboro Aviation in Oregon, who also offer the J1 but seem to have a faster training program.

[HillerBee]

Originally Posted by dogpaddy

Thanks for the information HillerBee & i4iq.

I have begun to realise that the visa process is highly subjective and despite what it states on the visa in your passport, the final decision whether you actually get into the country or not is the official that you meet at the arrival airport.

Hillerbee,

Are you sure that it is only the CPL that prevents issuance of a J-1 visa? Does that mean I can get IR, CFI and CFII qualified on an M1 visa?

After reading a lot on this forum I am led to believe that you were at HAI in Florida. Did you go the M1 then J1 route? And if not were there any others that were taking that route? I am also intending to go to HAI and I'm curious if the school would raise any objections.

Thanks,

dogpaddy

You cannot get a CFI without a CPL.

There are people being send back at immigration, if you tell them you're on a J-1 but hope to stay they will send you straight back. They use all kinds of trick questions to find out whether your intentions are genuine, meaning study, gain experience and then go back to your home country.

The M-1->J1 route is also used by students at HAI, but I personally know a few who didn't get the J-1, and where F******

I did the normal J-1 route, graduated in 5.5 months and had plenty of time left on the visa. I actually left early because I got a job offer in the UK.

Do you live in Vienna? I'm in Graz from 5-11 feb.

[dogpaddy]

Thanks once again for the information.

i4iq,

I have considered the Hillsboro route but due to several reasons, both personal and practical, have decided to follow the HAI route. I've had plenty of time whilst saving the money to think about most of the other possibilities

Thanks for the Yahoo! tip.

HillerBee,

What qualifications did you complete in 5.5 months? From what I've heard about the aircraft/instructor availability, you must have been really pushing it.

Did you manage to get a job with HAI or did you have to move somewhere else? (Weighing up the pros and cons of getting R22 qualified )

From what you've both said, I think I'm going to put plan B into action:

start now with the JAA ATPL exams (distance learning) and get them done before I go to the States. I never did fancy opening that can of worms upon my return to the UK. I can then take the flight test in Florida! Any one see any problems with that route?

Do you think that will also help convince the officials about my intentions to return to Europe?

Thanks,

dogpaddy

Yes I do live in Vienna. Have fun in Graz. I've not been there yet so I can't offer you any tips about places to go, things to see. I have heard that it's a lovely city. Are you flying in there to go somewhere else or staying in Graz?

[i4iq]

HillerBee

What were you doing that took 5.5 months if you already had 190 hours before you got the J1?

dogPaddy

You really should get the R22 time - there is relatively little work for purely Schweizer pilots out there. Don't forget, many students don't get hired by HAI and most other schools are using the R22 and increasingly the R44.

Preparation before you go will save you a lot of time.

Showing you have intent to return to your country will help your cause.

[HillerBee]

I had a fixed wing PPL. I'd never flown a helicopter in my life before.

I was CPL(H) with less than 100 hrs. rotary. there aren't many who get their PPL/CPL/CFI done in 5.5 months and certainly not at HAI. It took me 5.5 months because I had to wait 3 weeks before I could start the flying for my CFI, after being in CFI groundschool for 3 weeks.

dogpaddy:
You really have to push it when you want to do it fast, and there (where) people within HAI who didn't like that at all. But you're only there for yourself, the sooner you're ready the sooner you can start working. (I hate the word hour building, when you're a CPL/CFI you're just working and gaining experience)

i4iq:
Where are you doing your training, and what did you achieve sofar? I remember you asking the same sort of questions as dogpaddy about a year ago.