Sikorsky S-92: From Design to Operations
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I am an S92 AME
No cracks in our gearboxes so far, touch wood!
Maxwelg,
just to confirm where it is, its not the stbd rear foot. its the stbd one. the feet are arranged one fwd one back one left and one right.
the accessories are mounted in a variety of ways. the no3 hyd pump is held to the gearbox with big meaty studs, but the generators and main hyraulic pumps are held by meaty studs to the accessory gearboxes whice are part of the engine inputs, not technically part of the MGB, but attached to it. the oil pumps are buried into the front of the gearbox.
No cracks in our gearboxes so far, touch wood!
Maxwelg,
just to confirm where it is, its not the stbd rear foot. its the stbd one. the feet are arranged one fwd one back one left and one right.
the accessories are mounted in a variety of ways. the no3 hyd pump is held to the gearbox with big meaty studs, but the generators and main hyraulic pumps are held by meaty studs to the accessory gearboxes whice are part of the engine inputs, not technically part of the MGB, but attached to it. the oil pumps are buried into the front of the gearbox.
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Maxwelg2.
I work for an operator who has had several gearbox mounting feet crack. I can not remember exactlly if they were left or right mounting feet. We do however when describing the area of the crack, describe it as the rear or forward part of the mounting foot on the left/right hand side. This may lead poeple to think that there are 2 mounting feet on each side of the gearbox. As can be seen from the picture in post 626, there is ONE foot and TWO mounting bolts per side of the gearbox.
I am not sure if the HUMS has given enough data to enable Sikorsky to pinpoint the problem.
As can also be seen in the picture you can see how the input gearbox and number 3 hyd pump are connected to the main gearbox, as described by ironchefflay, by big meaty studs.
Whilst only my opinion, I have no problem with flying in the S92, I often do on airtests positioning flights etc, whilst not perfect it does not make me nervous or anxious in anyway.
I work for an operator who has had several gearbox mounting feet crack. I can not remember exactlly if they were left or right mounting feet. We do however when describing the area of the crack, describe it as the rear or forward part of the mounting foot on the left/right hand side. This may lead poeple to think that there are 2 mounting feet on each side of the gearbox. As can be seen from the picture in post 626, there is ONE foot and TWO mounting bolts per side of the gearbox.
I am not sure if the HUMS has given enough data to enable Sikorsky to pinpoint the problem.
As can also be seen in the picture you can see how the input gearbox and number 3 hyd pump are connected to the main gearbox, as described by ironchefflay, by big meaty studs.
Whilst only my opinion, I have no problem with flying in the S92, I often do on airtests positioning flights etc, whilst not perfect it does not make me nervous or anxious in anyway.
Last edited by rag it; 3rd Feb 2010 at 18:23.
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S92 Speed Restriction
I heard today that the Canadian S92s have had a 130kt speed restriction placed on them. Is this to reduce the vibration?
Also, is this an operator imposed restriction or the Canadian regulatory authorities? Should/are other global operators following suit?
Also, is this an operator imposed restriction or the Canadian regulatory authorities? Should/are other global operators following suit?
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The 130kt speed restriction is an advisory from Sikorsky based on cruise torque settings. All the foot cracks have occurred either in Canada or the North Sea. PHI in the GOM, who has 50k hours on S-92s have always flown at a slightly lower torque setting to achieve 130-140 knots airspeed and has never had a foot crack.
In 200,000+ S-92 hours, the foot crack phenomenon is relatively recent. Sikorsky is examining casting and manufactiring tehniques to establish what may have changed. There is a planned solution which involves using a new lower gearbox casting which is being trialled and will be retrofitted to all S-92s as it becomes available. It is based on the stronger casting of the Canadian MHP program, stonger because its a 30,000lb aircraft.
In 200,000+ S-92 hours, the foot crack phenomenon is relatively recent. Sikorsky is examining casting and manufactiring tehniques to establish what may have changed. There is a planned solution which involves using a new lower gearbox casting which is being trialled and will be retrofitted to all S-92s as it becomes available. It is based on the stronger casting of the Canadian MHP program, stonger because its a 30,000lb aircraft.
It is not a mandatory speed reduction, simply a recommendation from Sikorsky to reduce the stress on the MGB whilst the issue is resolved.
TiP
TiP
Last edited by TiPwEiGhT; 5th Feb 2010 at 15:20. Reason: Spelling correction
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Here we go again, it's "only" happening in the North Sea and Canada, you pilots must be doing something different.
...sounds more like to relieve the stress on Sikorsky "whilst the issue is resolved".
Make up your own mind - if the "planned solution" is a stronger casting.....
TC should act on this now, and before anybody says well you can't just do that, well...yes...you can, focus on the issue and not who the players are...
...sounds more like to relieve the stress on Sikorsky "whilst the issue is resolved".
Make up your own mind - if the "planned solution" is a stronger casting.....
TC should act on this now, and before anybody says well you can't just do that, well...yes...you can, focus on the issue and not who the players are...
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Just for info, it has been found in the north sea, at least twice in the last 18 months
1 in Norway and 1 in denmark.
Not a high percentage considering the amount of hours flown.
1 in Norway and 1 in denmark.
Not a high percentage considering the amount of hours flown.
Last edited by Bodgeit n leggit; 5th Feb 2010 at 17:57.
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just checking.
i have as much involvement in this as every other s92 eng, so i want to know whats going on too. would explain something thats going on at the moment, that i wasnt around for at the start.
i have as much involvement in this as every other s92 eng, so i want to know whats going on too. would explain something thats going on at the moment, that i wasnt around for at the start.
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With respect, i read all the notices as i am required to do as a license holder. But i dont study everything released by every company in my spare time. i find out more on here than i do at work
untill the 10 hour check appeared in the tech log. i had no idea what was going on!
most of what we learn comes from talking to other people in different companies and eachother. a lot of the time we get official notification about something, its long after its happened and only when Part M or quality or whoever is involved gets something in writing down to us. im at the bottom of a lengthy chain, and ultimatly just do as i'm told!
untill the 10 hour check appeared in the tech log. i had no idea what was going on!
most of what we learn comes from talking to other people in different companies and eachother. a lot of the time we get official notification about something, its long after its happened and only when Part M or quality or whoever is involved gets something in writing down to us. im at the bottom of a lengthy chain, and ultimatly just do as i'm told!
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Have to agree with Iron, I also read all the material that comes out, this is normal any new or updated inspection requirements . The reasons for these changes are seldom given. So it's down to the old grape vine again for the "story".
Any further incidents of faults found are not advertized so much, not that there hidden just a need to know thing I guess.
Any further incidents of faults found are not advertized so much, not that there hidden just a need to know thing I guess.
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Here's hoping the new MGB casting solves the cracking issue
Looks like CHC as part of the new Soteria consortium are going to implement more S-92a helos in the UK. Still the best equipment for this job, I don't think so until they sort out the MGB mounting feet cracks..I for one don't fancy a 130 kt limited helo being used for SAR duties.
HMS Gannet jobs fear as MoD awards £7bn contract - Scotsman.com News
HMS Gannet jobs fear as MoD awards £7bn contract - Scotsman.com News
CONCERNS were raised last night about the future of the air base at HMS Gannet at Prestwick following a shake up of Britain's search and rescue helicopter service.
There are fears that the helicopter base could be moved from the Ayrshire naval base to Glasgow Airport, placing the jobs of up to 100 military and civilian staff under threat.
A consortium led by the Royal Bank of Scotland and one of the North Sea's major helicopter companies yesterday won a £7 billion contract to operate the new service.
The deal will see the familiar yellow Sea King search and rescue helicopters of the RAF starting to disappear from the skies over Britain in 2012.
The RAF aircraft will be replaced by a new fleet of black and orange liveried helicopters which will operate on both civilian and military rescue missions currently carried out by the RAF, the Royal Navy and the Coastguard.
The fleet of helicopters will operate from 12 bases around Britain, including four in Scotland.
The Ministry of Defence confirmed last night that search and rescue (SAR) operations would continue at RAF Lossiemouth in Moray and the current Coastguard helicopter bases at Sumburgh on Shetland, and Stornoway in the Western Isles.
But an MoD spokesman said the new contract allowed the base for operations in the Clyde area to be moved from HMS Gannet.
The spokesman stressed: "The invitation to tender states that as long as the preferred bidder provides a SAR helicopter output which encompasses that region, then they do not have to retain the SAR base at Prestwick. It is entirely up to the consortium to decide where they are going to provide that service from."
He also revealed that the number of helicopters involved in SAR missions in Britain would be reduced from 38 to 24 aircraft.
But he claimed the new fleet of Sikorsky S-92A aircraft will be 30 per cent faster than the ageing Sea Kings and equipped with the latest SAR technology.
The "Soteria" consortium, which has won the contract to provide the new service for the next 25 years, comprises CHC Helicopters, a Canadian-based company which is one of the main operators of offshore flights in Britain's oil and gas industry, French company Thales, helicopter manufacturer Sikorsky, and the government-owned Royal Bank of Scotland.
Announcing that the Soteria consortium had been chosen as the preferred bidder for the massive contract, Quentin Davies, the minister for defence equipment and support, said: "The new service, which will begin with a phased introduction anticipated to begin in 2012, will bring together the current search and rescue helicopter provision into one highly effective and harmonised service under a single contract providing the British taxpayer with an excellent service for many years to come.
"The future service will benefit from modern, fast, reliable helicopters and will continue to operate from 12 bases in order to ensure that it provides a fully effective SAR service."
There are fears that the helicopter base could be moved from the Ayrshire naval base to Glasgow Airport, placing the jobs of up to 100 military and civilian staff under threat.
A consortium led by the Royal Bank of Scotland and one of the North Sea's major helicopter companies yesterday won a £7 billion contract to operate the new service.
The deal will see the familiar yellow Sea King search and rescue helicopters of the RAF starting to disappear from the skies over Britain in 2012.
The RAF aircraft will be replaced by a new fleet of black and orange liveried helicopters which will operate on both civilian and military rescue missions currently carried out by the RAF, the Royal Navy and the Coastguard.
The fleet of helicopters will operate from 12 bases around Britain, including four in Scotland.
The Ministry of Defence confirmed last night that search and rescue (SAR) operations would continue at RAF Lossiemouth in Moray and the current Coastguard helicopter bases at Sumburgh on Shetland, and Stornoway in the Western Isles.
But an MoD spokesman said the new contract allowed the base for operations in the Clyde area to be moved from HMS Gannet.
The spokesman stressed: "The invitation to tender states that as long as the preferred bidder provides a SAR helicopter output which encompasses that region, then they do not have to retain the SAR base at Prestwick. It is entirely up to the consortium to decide where they are going to provide that service from."
He also revealed that the number of helicopters involved in SAR missions in Britain would be reduced from 38 to 24 aircraft.
But he claimed the new fleet of Sikorsky S-92A aircraft will be 30 per cent faster than the ageing Sea Kings and equipped with the latest SAR technology.
The "Soteria" consortium, which has won the contract to provide the new service for the next 25 years, comprises CHC Helicopters, a Canadian-based company which is one of the main operators of offshore flights in Britain's oil and gas industry, French company Thales, helicopter manufacturer Sikorsky, and the government-owned Royal Bank of Scotland.
Announcing that the Soteria consortium had been chosen as the preferred bidder for the massive contract, Quentin Davies, the minister for defence equipment and support, said: "The new service, which will begin with a phased introduction anticipated to begin in 2012, will bring together the current search and rescue helicopter provision into one highly effective and harmonised service under a single contract providing the British taxpayer with an excellent service for many years to come.
"The future service will benefit from modern, fast, reliable helicopters and will continue to operate from 12 bases in order to ensure that it provides a fully effective SAR service."
You can stop posting now
I don't think so
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Variable Load,
The S-92 is a machine. Whether I like it or not is irrelevant. Whether you care is irrelevant.
We should stick to the facts that are causing a concern :
1) Mounting foot cracks started appearing in early 2009.
2) Several cracks have since appeared on several different airframes.
2) It is now February 2010.
Along with everyone else I'd like to see this issue resolved, fixed, gone, off the table ; it's not the machine I'm concerned about, it's the process.
The S-92 is a machine. Whether I like it or not is irrelevant. Whether you care is irrelevant.
We should stick to the facts that are causing a concern :
1) Mounting foot cracks started appearing in early 2009.
2) Several cracks have since appeared on several different airframes.
2) It is now February 2010.
Along with everyone else I'd like to see this issue resolved, fixed, gone, off the table ; it's not the machine I'm concerned about, it's the process.
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Madrock, I second that.
CEOFSKY, I do ask the operator, but that information is generally only shared with the regular offshore community. For us onshore-based "armchair" engineers speculation and the media releases are sometimes unfortunately all we have to rely on at times. One of the main reasons I started reading the posts on this forum almost a year ago.
Stepping back it seems to me that fixing the issue and publicly announcing such would go a long way to regaining confidence in this a/c. When can we expect that to happen?
Variable Load, you're entitled to your opinion just as much as I am. If you don't like mine, tough, I'm one of the reasons this industry can move forward in spite of the setbacks that we unfortunately experience from time to time i.e. we need a helo service to do our job offshore effectively and efficiently.
Safe Flying
Max
Originally Posted by CEOFSKY
the MGB cracking is sorted.
Max, just because you arent "in the know" doesnt mean things arent being/havent been done.
Perhaps you should ask the operators what has been done with their cracked MGBs?
Leggit hit the nail on the head. Armchair engineering fueled by speculation with only a slice of information is pointless.
Max, just because you arent "in the know" doesnt mean things arent being/havent been done.
Perhaps you should ask the operators what has been done with their cracked MGBs?
Leggit hit the nail on the head. Armchair engineering fueled by speculation with only a slice of information is pointless.
Stepping back it seems to me that fixing the issue and publicly announcing such would go a long way to regaining confidence in this a/c. When can we expect that to happen?
Variable Load, you're entitled to your opinion just as much as I am. If you don't like mine, tough, I'm one of the reasons this industry can move forward in spite of the setbacks that we unfortunately experience from time to time i.e. we need a helo service to do our job offshore effectively and efficiently.
Safe Flying
Max