Sikorsky S-92: From Design to Operations
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Go ahead, say it looks less than pretty, I don't care. It is on the customer's ramp, at work not in a Eurocopter parking lot like all those unsold 225's waiting forlornly for a buyer.
Not only is the cabin very very much larger than the EC family (20 feet long, 6 feet high and 6 1/2 feet wide) but the back end has the ramp to allow fast baggage loading, the baggage space is quite a bit bigger than the 225/332, and it all loads with one drop of the ramp because of that.
In the SAR version, big kit can be loaded and unloaded quickly, as well.
The 50 inch sliding door has a telescoping space that allows it to park around the sponson, so there is no change in the appearance when the big door is fitted. The USAF recently did trials and found the hoist quite easy to use in a max gross weight hover.
Not only is the cabin very very much larger than the EC family (20 feet long, 6 feet high and 6 1/2 feet wide) but the back end has the ramp to allow fast baggage loading, the baggage space is quite a bit bigger than the 225/332, and it all loads with one drop of the ramp because of that.
In the SAR version, big kit can be loaded and unloaded quickly, as well.
The 50 inch sliding door has a telescoping space that allows it to park around the sponson, so there is no change in the appearance when the big door is fitted. The USAF recently did trials and found the hoist quite easy to use in a max gross weight hover.
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If all is going so swimmingly well, why are there many rumours that Sikorsky is already working on a 5-bladed main rotor to try and overcome some of its reported problems? Any genuine news as to what's happening Nick?
I'm amazed at the emotion that this seems to raise time and time again. My viewpoint, for what it's worth:
As a pilot I would buy an EC225 every time.
As an operator I would buy an S92 due to cost.
As a client I would buy an S92 due to cabin size and baggage capacity. ECF missed a huge opportunity with their promised 332 Mk3 fuselage!!
Range vs payload may become a very marginal argument with some, but please be cautious of the ECF "on delivery performance" that they quote!!
At the moment the S92 is winning on a global basis, perhaps rightly........?
As a pilot I would buy an EC225 every time.
As an operator I would buy an S92 due to cost.
As a client I would buy an S92 due to cabin size and baggage capacity. ECF missed a huge opportunity with their promised 332 Mk3 fuselage!!
Range vs payload may become a very marginal argument with some, but please be cautious of the ECF "on delivery performance" that they quote!!
At the moment the S92 is winning on a global basis, perhaps rightly........?
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Originally Posted by NickLappos
like all those unsold 225's waiting forlornly for a buyer.
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The only thing in the parking lot in Marignane is a couple of old Super Frelons. The EC225 is selling like hot cakes. Offshore operators like Bristow, CHC, COHC would probably order more if the waiting list wasn't so long. No doubt ERA has good reason to be introducing the type to the Gulf of Mexico. Or maybe they are selling so well because everyone is waiting for the S92 to begin to perform as advertised? 
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NW, not sure how anyone could advocate going down the 332 baggage bay route as a shining example other than as an excellent means of premature back problems! Bear in mind that the S-92 was/is intended not just for the civil offshore market, but for the military one. Look at the following brochure on page 9 for some examples. Imagine, also, a medivac fit with rows of stretchers that can be carried in and out rapidly via the rear entrance.
http://www.sikorsky.com/file/popup/0,9604,1700,00.pdf
http://www.sikorsky.com/file/popup/0,9604,1700,00.pdf
Does the North Sea version have a bulkhead for the hold or have the oil companies changed their policy on pax and bags in the cabin together?
The layouts in the pdf document are a good illustration of what it can do but their seems little space for storage amongst the stretchers and seats. I'm thinking about access to SAR kit.
Also with an allegedly poor windscreen wiper system and no sliding window in the cockpit I can see some visibility problems whilst winching to vessels at sea. There is nothing like sliding your window open to improve vis whilst being battered by rain and sea spray!
The 50 inch sliding door has a telescoping space that allows it to park around the sponson.
NW
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Mama Mangrve said, "why are there many rumours that Sikorsky is already working on a 5-bladed main rotor...."
Dear Mama,
The rumors of "fixes" for mythical problems seem to originate from a point right next to those unsold 225's. With your reported rumors (I don't hear them), it is hard to imagine why the sales and deliveries keep coming, and the hours are building in a manner that says the customers like the aircraft. The number of customers who put some in service and then came back for many more seems to say that something is right. I don't have the exact numbers, but I think the S-92 is outselling the 225 by about 4 to 1 in obvious head-to-head competition, and Sikorsky makes money on each sale, because it is a private company, while EC can dump aircraft, since the French government doesn't need the profits.
Regarding 5 blades, I was the program manager on the 92, and helped conduct the meetings to decide when and how to grow the gross weight for the next generation H92 military aircraft. Among the changes was a decision to keep the same blade as now, but add one when we took the weight above 31,000 lbs. That change, along with increasing engine power by about 30% might still be in the plans (I am not any longer wired into the decisions.)
Dear Mama,
The rumors of "fixes" for mythical problems seem to originate from a point right next to those unsold 225's. With your reported rumors (I don't hear them), it is hard to imagine why the sales and deliveries keep coming, and the hours are building in a manner that says the customers like the aircraft. The number of customers who put some in service and then came back for many more seems to say that something is right. I don't have the exact numbers, but I think the S-92 is outselling the 225 by about 4 to 1 in obvious head-to-head competition, and Sikorsky makes money on each sale, because it is a private company, while EC can dump aircraft, since the French government doesn't need the profits.
Regarding 5 blades, I was the program manager on the 92, and helped conduct the meetings to decide when and how to grow the gross weight for the next generation H92 military aircraft. Among the changes was a decision to keep the same blade as now, but add one when we took the weight above 31,000 lbs. That change, along with increasing engine power by about 30% might still be in the plans (I am not any longer wired into the decisions.)
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Nick, Nick,
You have to start relaxing and not always leap to the defence of your former employers. I have no axe to grind, being retired and having more than 10,000 hours on Sikorsky products or derivative, .plus quite a few thousand on Bells and a few thousand on Eurocopter products. The rumour of the 5 bladed rotor came from an ex-colleague who has just completed his manufacturers S92 course and now has about 50 hours on type. He was also the one who was mentioning that the S92 is having some certification problems with a couple of authorities, including the Canadian DoT. I wish the S92 every success as the S61 was one of my favourite machines in my dotage and I wished for many years that Sikorsky would get their finger out with a credible civil replacement for it. One of my ex-emloyers who were definitely going to get S92s have now decided to go for EC225s. This of course, may be due to the success of the S92 meaning that they can't get hold of them in time, whilst if the EC225 is outperformed by it, low order books mean that more are available. Being retired I'm also not wired into anything more substantial than rumours passed on to me by ex-colleagues still fortunate enough to be flying. All my major problems and failures were with Ma Bell's products, though the over-complication of some of Igor's products has caused a few headaches! I'd personally like to see both models to do well as I'm jealous as hell of all the new generation who can fly modern, well designed and engineered machines (though I'm not really sure they'll have as much fun as I did. Good luck to all, long live competition (and for goodness sake, let's have Bell actually start to come up with some competition after so many years of trying to re-invent the Huey)
You have to start relaxing and not always leap to the defence of your former employers. I have no axe to grind, being retired and having more than 10,000 hours on Sikorsky products or derivative, .plus quite a few thousand on Bells and a few thousand on Eurocopter products. The rumour of the 5 bladed rotor came from an ex-colleague who has just completed his manufacturers S92 course and now has about 50 hours on type. He was also the one who was mentioning that the S92 is having some certification problems with a couple of authorities, including the Canadian DoT. I wish the S92 every success as the S61 was one of my favourite machines in my dotage and I wished for many years that Sikorsky would get their finger out with a credible civil replacement for it. One of my ex-emloyers who were definitely going to get S92s have now decided to go for EC225s. This of course, may be due to the success of the S92 meaning that they can't get hold of them in time, whilst if the EC225 is outperformed by it, low order books mean that more are available. Being retired I'm also not wired into anything more substantial than rumours passed on to me by ex-colleagues still fortunate enough to be flying. All my major problems and failures were with Ma Bell's products, though the over-complication of some of Igor's products has caused a few headaches! I'd personally like to see both models to do well as I'm jealous as hell of all the new generation who can fly modern, well designed and engineered machines (though I'm not really sure they'll have as much fun as I did. Good luck to all, long live competition (and for goodness sake, let's have Bell actually start to come up with some competition after so many years of trying to re-invent the Huey)
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There was another shot of G-CHCK and a full feature on the new CHC livery in the latest edition of CHC Rotor Tales. (1.0 MB)
Thought the B-model S/H-92 was always intended to be the CT7-8C powered version appearing in mid-2008 ? Now that Uncle Sam is helping to pay for the engine through the Increment 2 VH-92(B?) program, Sikorsky should surely benefit from a reduction in cost & risk.
I/C
Thought the B-model S/H-92 was always intended to be the CT7-8C powered version appearing in mid-2008 ? Now that Uncle Sam is helping to pay for the engine through the Increment 2 VH-92(B?) program, Sikorsky should surely benefit from a reduction in cost & risk.
I/C
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Nick, from what I have read, the philosophy of "if it looks nice, it'll fly nice" was almost part of the curriculum in Aircraft Design 101.
What happened?
P.S. I have flown the beast, and it was nice.
What happened?
P.S. I have flown the beast, and it was nice.
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This is true according to the Broome Refueller. Contract starts in Feb 07 ish and the Oil Company is called Inpex.
Inpex was offered S76s but according to the Refueller, they were too small on payload and range in the wet season. There was some mention of a 61 but that seems to have gone away and the Refueller now confirms it will be a 92 from CHC.
Inpex was offered S76s but according to the Refueller, they were too small on payload and range in the wet season. There was some mention of a 61 but that seems to have gone away and the Refueller now confirms it will be a 92 from CHC.
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[quote=Jayrow Pilot]the Oil Company is called Inpex.
quote]
http://www.inpex.co.jp/english/busin...tralia_01.html
quote]
http://www.inpex.co.jp/english/busin...tralia_01.html
