Cattle Mustering incl Training, Job Prospects (!) etc etc
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would understand how difficult they can be
what is it about the people that hire you for brumby running? almost in every instance, a bastard of a job all round, but exciting yeah.
the '47's with the no bar gave us an edge on the four legged critters at least.
western gulf? always just smart enough to send someone else into that area, especially the place on the border that had the time expired tinned tucker, pilots really got the sh**s there.
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I had a jammed collective once whilst in pursuit of brumbies, dropped in an opening into position and discovered the bad news when time came to lift out, fortunately recovered ok but by crikey exciting yes. Still the poor old brums are pretty well gone now mostly by virtue of captain winchester whose success rate was way better than mine.
Luckily we had a good client were the photo was taken so funds were secure, I had some good years on the border place too with food and funds all ok, but never ran brumbies there. I am aware of the tinned tucker episode.
Never worked a no bar just the stab bar but I did discover that a Robbie could get about well enough when called upon.
Luckily we had a good client were the photo was taken so funds were secure, I had some good years on the border place too with food and funds all ok, but never ran brumbies there. I am aware of the tinned tucker episode.
Never worked a no bar just the stab bar but I did discover that a Robbie could get about well enough when called upon.
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not like wage earners who can simply gravitate to another company when one company has a problem and leave the investment and the mess with the poor bloody owner. Think about it.
cheers tet.
WHAT LIKE THE SUPPLEJACK STORY , do you know a little bit about this one tet
cheers tet.
WHAT LIKE THE SUPPLEJACK STORY , do you know a little bit about this one tet
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WHAT LIKE THE SUPPLEJACK STORY
and rather than raise innuendo you might be well advised to find your answer from the pilot concerned and the owner of the aircraft.
i'd have thought that there is enough heartache in that turnout without you interfering in something that is none of your business and showing yourself off to the world by blustering around with your big feet.
tet
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Hey Earl .... "Mustangs" are from the land of Broke-back Cowboys, Here in Aust they are "Brumbys" the land of Ringers.
You know the last time I saw a Hiller mustering Brumbies, it was jammed in the air filter of my 3B-1.
You know the last time I saw a Hiller mustering Brumbies, it was jammed in the air filter of my 3B-1.
thanks ag R and Bellfest, all noted, sometimes one needs to be "one dimensional" to be "master of a trade", rather "jack of none," or put another way, dabbling with just enough knowledge in each field to be dangerous, in reality.
On that note, a self proclamation of being " a master of a trade" carries little weight! I thought that about my shagging ability when I was in my early twenties but strangely enough I had no back up from the ladies! Kind of took the back bone out of my reasoning...
Personally, I think the multi user AOC is a complete load of **** and should not be allowed no matter what spin is put on it. Each of these operators should not be allowed to jump through any loop holes as contractors and private operators full stop. They should either have the knowledge, ability and means to have a complete and proper operational system including an AOC and all other forms of administrative documents and procedural accountabilities that are required to go with that or, they should restrict their operations to terra firma where they belong....
I don't think anyone has crashed a helicopter through a lack of accountability to their employer.... It don't matter who owns the helicopter, no one wants to crash it! It is after all, primarily self preservation that keeps us in one piece...
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sorry there bellfest ol' son, i didn't mean to start WWIII. just a quick jab back at what looked like a bit of a put down.
i think you will find that a correctly set up multi user AOC does have all the correct paperwork and more than is usually the case in a single entity company. I would suggest that in the corporate and small to medium RPT world that it might commonly be used.
such procedures should be in place for every crosshired aircraft and be able to be demonstrated by your HAAMC the aircraft servicing requirements in an audit. It may be serviced by another workshop, bringing into place another agreement which must be on file.
if the AC came with a pilot the Chief pilot must record those pilots' hours for the last twelve months and his currencies as per usual. The AOC therefore is a multi user AOC. As I say i think you will find the practice very common and blustering about it's use, is utter nonsense.
CASA is too short staffed to check every small operator, you would know that some of them draw criticism by going only to those operators parked on an airfield beside a RPT service rather than out bush. It makes sense to have at least the representation that one chief pilot can give to many others to make CASA's work a lot easier. it makes good safety sense to provide a mentoring service to those remote operators rather than have them operate in isolation and become seriously cloistered in their thinking.
I expect to be rung and have been a few times by CASA, with, "is so and so working under your AOC?" i can easily email immediatly the correct forms of agreement, F/D time and pilot currency details as required. in fact I have said to the CASA dude who rings that I would like to hear those enquiries more often re the outlaws.
No big company with any brains would provide the service for operators who may become their opposition for sure.
apart from that if you have ever tried to start up an AOC and watch your business vaporise while you wait for documentation you would know that something legal is needed to fill that gap.
I've been around long enough to know the old adage about self praise being no recommendation, spare me, I didn't / wouldn't push that far. but it is a fact that many specialist are simply that in one field.
not every one is a specialist, less often in the mustering game than other fields say, do you get those who sail off into an impeccable reputation sunset with never having to pull that special something out of their backside when it is put upon them, but there are passengers here as anywhere.
In fact with a quick and crude edit, i could say the country side is becoming rather littered with them and their wreckages.
re the private ownership verse the company owned aircraft, of course 99% of pilots are fastidious and careful regardless. but the difference of private ownership is something that I have often seen, and the peer pressure that goes with not letting your mates down, because they know the costs and the risks much more than an ordinary employee does.
Besides I can easily prove this section of the argument with something that we can all relate to, just tell me where you see a company car looked after as well as the employees own car. touche.
cheers tet.
i think you will find that a correctly set up multi user AOC does have all the correct paperwork and more than is usually the case in a single entity company. I would suggest that in the corporate and small to medium RPT world that it might commonly be used.
such procedures should be in place for every crosshired aircraft and be able to be demonstrated by your HAAMC the aircraft servicing requirements in an audit. It may be serviced by another workshop, bringing into place another agreement which must be on file.
if the AC came with a pilot the Chief pilot must record those pilots' hours for the last twelve months and his currencies as per usual. The AOC therefore is a multi user AOC. As I say i think you will find the practice very common and blustering about it's use, is utter nonsense.
CASA is too short staffed to check every small operator, you would know that some of them draw criticism by going only to those operators parked on an airfield beside a RPT service rather than out bush. It makes sense to have at least the representation that one chief pilot can give to many others to make CASA's work a lot easier. it makes good safety sense to provide a mentoring service to those remote operators rather than have them operate in isolation and become seriously cloistered in their thinking.
I expect to be rung and have been a few times by CASA, with, "is so and so working under your AOC?" i can easily email immediatly the correct forms of agreement, F/D time and pilot currency details as required. in fact I have said to the CASA dude who rings that I would like to hear those enquiries more often re the outlaws.
No big company with any brains would provide the service for operators who may become their opposition for sure.
apart from that if you have ever tried to start up an AOC and watch your business vaporise while you wait for documentation you would know that something legal is needed to fill that gap.
I've been around long enough to know the old adage about self praise being no recommendation, spare me, I didn't / wouldn't push that far. but it is a fact that many specialist are simply that in one field.
not every one is a specialist, less often in the mustering game than other fields say, do you get those who sail off into an impeccable reputation sunset with never having to pull that special something out of their backside when it is put upon them, but there are passengers here as anywhere.
In fact with a quick and crude edit, i could say the country side is becoming rather littered with them and their wreckages.
re the private ownership verse the company owned aircraft, of course 99% of pilots are fastidious and careful regardless. but the difference of private ownership is something that I have often seen, and the peer pressure that goes with not letting your mates down, because they know the costs and the risks much more than an ordinary employee does.
Besides I can easily prove this section of the argument with something that we can all relate to, just tell me where you see a company car looked after as well as the employees own car. touche.
cheers tet.
Last edited by topendtorque; 19th Nov 2010 at 19:10. Reason: clarification
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You know the last time I saw a Hiller mustering Brumbies, it was jammed in the air filter of my 3B-1.
probably the same little chappie that you had, running around picking up rocks he was, he must have seen the light, he is currently flying with angels I believe. more than likely he will come on here and try to give a bit of lip
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good post bellfast good reading
For those that charge for the use of an A.O.C should and will be held responsible should anything go wrong . I have talked with the pilot in mention and he paints a scary picture of what was going on , DO you still want to carry on tet? . Pretty scary for you answering NO , then baiting me , and rather raise innuendo like you said , its funny how we all hide the truth , for those that know , why are our lips so tight , why do we do this? , maybe it just takes hate to say the right thing !!!
For those that charge for the use of an A.O.C should and will be held responsible should anything go wrong . I have talked with the pilot in mention and he paints a scary picture of what was going on , DO you still want to carry on tet? . Pretty scary for you answering NO , then baiting me , and rather raise innuendo like you said , its funny how we all hide the truth , for those that know , why are our lips so tight , why do we do this? , maybe it just takes hate to say the right thing !!!
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hate
I have no idea why you have so much truck with this situation you mention, tell you what I'll send you a PM when I get around to it and try to address some of your concerns if i can.
regards tet
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This is a pic taken by a friend of mine just as this machine is dropping out of translation, he is landing using about 15". Really nice control
Last edited by waragee; 23rd Nov 2010 at 19:41.
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That's amazing! How do you get them to stay in such a regular shape, and not go running all over the landscape? I assume there's a fence (or similar) down the left hand edge of the herd, is there another on the right? So you just have to get them to run into a funnel?
Or are the critters just really well trained?
Or are the critters just really well trained?
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They are a herd animal and usually run together quite well, there are a few recalcritant types from time to time but treated well cattle are usually no problem.
There is a fence on the left side and out wide on the right there is another. Its a big laneway leading up to the yard but nice and wide so you can manuvere a big mob without going over the fence.
There are horsemen taking the tail along.
The secret to handling any cattle is not to let them get hot. A good stockpilot will sometimes be in the lead of cattle slowing them down so they dont get hot. One of the most effective ways to muster is to have a team of horsemen walking a small mob along with 1 or 2 machines mustering into them and steadily building the size of the mob. With large numbers of cattle it sometimes gets to the point that there are so many that it is pointless for the horsemen to try and maintain control and a simpler solution is to just let them travel themselves but amongst most good cattlemen this is not desirable. Unfortunately a lot of good stockmen are drifting away from the bush and the ground team skill levels are in rapid decline, this is the core reason that experienced stockmen are usually favoured as muster pilots.
There is a fence on the left side and out wide on the right there is another. Its a big laneway leading up to the yard but nice and wide so you can manuvere a big mob without going over the fence.
There are horsemen taking the tail along.
The secret to handling any cattle is not to let them get hot. A good stockpilot will sometimes be in the lead of cattle slowing them down so they dont get hot. One of the most effective ways to muster is to have a team of horsemen walking a small mob along with 1 or 2 machines mustering into them and steadily building the size of the mob. With large numbers of cattle it sometimes gets to the point that there are so many that it is pointless for the horsemen to try and maintain control and a simpler solution is to just let them travel themselves but amongst most good cattlemen this is not desirable. Unfortunately a lot of good stockmen are drifting away from the bush and the ground team skill levels are in rapid decline, this is the core reason that experienced stockmen are usually favoured as muster pilots.
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thanks Ned, your pics are always a good tonic, I especially like the last one,
the cool breeze right on picanninay daylight, machine just lifting, past the palm tree, 5 degrees left bank settle down at heading 044 as track sits right on 028 as climb goes past 300 feet the air warms a touch, the brolgas dancing as one flies over, brumbies and cattle playing, but the old bulls as you show, barely glance sideways.
nostalgic pics of CSM i believe the last one of a stable of 23 operational '47's during it's peak, from the great NT Bell 47 temple.
these pics show it on the last day it did a commercial job before it headed south, didn't always be painted white, the personal hack of our illustrious chief pilot it used to be painted in the stars and stripes, reflecting his home state. (be great if someone could come up with a pic of it then)
be a good pic for the arifast thread, it being an ex airfast machine after the company, crowley airways??, was acquired by killen, part of a family of six or so CS's
yes Pandalet as Warragee mentions, Low Stress Stock Handling is the single greatest advance in safety, efficiency and customer satisfaction that our industry has had in the last twenty years. hard to believe that people still find reasons for ham fisted accidents. you can check out the origins of LSSH by googling for Bud Williams, with his wife Eunice a truly remarkable, nearly retired at about eighty, American couple.
it is a matter of gathering the confidence of the cattle, not blasting them, they then gather their calves and wander off in the direction away from where your gradual but regular bits of pressure are coming from, still chewing their cud if you do it right.
probably already part of an accomplished instructors repertoire i guess.
tet
the cool breeze right on picanninay daylight, machine just lifting, past the palm tree, 5 degrees left bank settle down at heading 044 as track sits right on 028 as climb goes past 300 feet the air warms a touch, the brolgas dancing as one flies over, brumbies and cattle playing, but the old bulls as you show, barely glance sideways.
nostalgic pics of CSM i believe the last one of a stable of 23 operational '47's during it's peak, from the great NT Bell 47 temple.
these pics show it on the last day it did a commercial job before it headed south, didn't always be painted white, the personal hack of our illustrious chief pilot it used to be painted in the stars and stripes, reflecting his home state. (be great if someone could come up with a pic of it then)
be a good pic for the arifast thread, it being an ex airfast machine after the company, crowley airways??, was acquired by killen, part of a family of six or so CS's
yes Pandalet as Warragee mentions, Low Stress Stock Handling is the single greatest advance in safety, efficiency and customer satisfaction that our industry has had in the last twenty years. hard to believe that people still find reasons for ham fisted accidents. you can check out the origins of LSSH by googling for Bud Williams, with his wife Eunice a truly remarkable, nearly retired at about eighty, American couple.
it is a matter of gathering the confidence of the cattle, not blasting them, they then gather their calves and wander off in the direction away from where your gradual but regular bits of pressure are coming from, still chewing their cud if you do it right.
probably already part of an accomplished instructors repertoire i guess.
tet
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tet..... yeh all going up nice an easy... how many times has the sence of accomplishment at that point being shattered by the whole mob turning.. just a bout where the tail goes into the scrub,and your suddenly looking at their heads and a **** load of dust comming up behind them.....!!!
