Flying in the Persian/Arabian Gulf
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Mikeb, it seems you are better-informed than most, but I don't agree with your "Ward & June Cleaver" assessment of the area. I've spent a fair amount of time in the middle-east, so my opinions aren't based on the garbage they put on TV. Even if you take the Iraq conflict out of the equation (for the sake of argument), my comments still stand. There are a LOT of positive things to be said for the middle-east for those with open minds, but let's put things into perspective. Airtoday should not be writing comments through rose-colored glasses. When expectations don't meet reality, then you have moral problems and other issues... just tell it like it is.
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Mmmmm .... Well I have worked in the UAE on and Off since early 1980 and can tell you that it is a great and safe place to be ...if you really want dangerous "locals" you can go to Papua New Guinea (or New York) the most seriously dangerous thing about the UAE is keeping out of the way of the Taxi Drivers!!!
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I'm resident in Dubai for almost two years now, and I confirm that's one of the safest place in the world I've seen so far.
But as a working or living environment I'm not sure that I would like to stay there for years...
regards
PS: By the way are you recruiting a poor CPL/IR/CFI with only 500 hours
But as a working or living environment I'm not sure that I would like to stay there for years...
regards
PS: By the way are you recruiting a poor CPL/IR/CFI with only 500 hours
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R D Rickster,
Saying you've spent some time in the Middle East and it's more dangerous than New York is completely meaningless - it's just a geographical area. Akin to saying there can't possibly be any mountains in Europe, because you've spent some time in Holland and never saw any!
The Middle East is a large geographical area, encompassing many countries, some pretty dangerous and violent places and some, like the United Arab Emirates decidedly not so. Airtoday was just telling it like it is about one country there - UAE which even a simple search on Google will reveal to be a considerably safer place in terms of personal safety than New York (and most major American cities). I don't think he's wearing rose coloured spectacles at all. It may not be the best place on earth to be, and his company certainly isn't paying great wages, but I felt a great deal safer when I was in Dubai than when I was in Houston.
If anyone has already accepted employment in an overseas country, unless something pretty serious has happened there to completely change their mind since they started investigating how it would be to work in a country like that, it's pretty unprofessional to pull out at the last minute. Presumably these individuals had done some homework, thought about personal safety issues before applying and knew what the pay was when they accepted.
Saying you've spent some time in the Middle East and it's more dangerous than New York is completely meaningless - it's just a geographical area. Akin to saying there can't possibly be any mountains in Europe, because you've spent some time in Holland and never saw any!
The Middle East is a large geographical area, encompassing many countries, some pretty dangerous and violent places and some, like the United Arab Emirates decidedly not so. Airtoday was just telling it like it is about one country there - UAE which even a simple search on Google will reveal to be a considerably safer place in terms of personal safety than New York (and most major American cities). I don't think he's wearing rose coloured spectacles at all. It may not be the best place on earth to be, and his company certainly isn't paying great wages, but I felt a great deal safer when I was in Dubai than when I was in Houston.
If anyone has already accepted employment in an overseas country, unless something pretty serious has happened there to completely change their mind since they started investigating how it would be to work in a country like that, it's pretty unprofessional to pull out at the last minute. Presumably these individuals had done some homework, thought about personal safety issues before applying and knew what the pay was when they accepted.
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Even if it was the safest place on earth, why would any westerner move to UAE as long as they can make the same money at home?
Airtoday, did the US pilots meet all of your experience requirements and do they already hold a type-rating? If they do, does it come as a suprise to you that they bailed out?
Airtoday, did the US pilots meet all of your experience requirements and do they already hold a type-rating? If they do, does it come as a suprise to you that they bailed out?
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Airtoday, I think the manner of your posts is what is generating the negative return fire. For example:
-is a very good example, from your first post in this topic, of how you turn a very positive message on its ear.
You take offence when your 'crap' wages are compared to the 'crap' accommodations. Well, you started it.
Again, you have posted:
-maybe, maybe not, but an American living ANYWHERE in the Middle East would be nuts to take things for granted. They aren't 'any nationality' these days. So far, I don't see anyone with a southern drawl supporting your assertion that Dubai is the 'safest haven on earth'.
These 2 guys ae a lot better off, and you are too, to have made the decision before arriving in Dubai, realizing it isn't acceptable, and trying to leave then. From what I've seen here, I'm betting your presentation of what to expect is extremely rosy and their subsequent research didn't match. To me, when investigating potential places to work or live, this is a red flag!
As expatriates, and looking like westerners, we will attract negative attention.
There are lots of QOL issues to address. As a case in point, right now I'm making 25% more than you offered and get 6 months of the year at home. Compared to most people working Mon to Fri, I see my kids more than they do. Where I'm working in west Africa was never advertised as safe but as long as one is careful, no problems.
Try to be less sensitive when your aggressively presented rosy views are challenged. The world is a big place and the people you are addressing here have seen much of it.
If you are really looking hard still for people, I'll pass the info along to a couple guys I know who may be interested.
If you would prefer single status living in crap accommodation for a bit more money then there are other operators in the Gulf better equipped.
You take offence when your 'crap' wages are compared to the 'crap' accommodations. Well, you started it.
Again, you have posted:
There are, and have been, many dangerous places on earth. Dubai is not one of them. It is a safe haven for people of all nationalities.
These 2 guys ae a lot better off, and you are too, to have made the decision before arriving in Dubai, realizing it isn't acceptable, and trying to leave then. From what I've seen here, I'm betting your presentation of what to expect is extremely rosy and their subsequent research didn't match. To me, when investigating potential places to work or live, this is a red flag!
As expatriates, and looking like westerners, we will attract negative attention.
There are lots of QOL issues to address. As a case in point, right now I'm making 25% more than you offered and get 6 months of the year at home. Compared to most people working Mon to Fri, I see my kids more than they do. Where I'm working in west Africa was never advertised as safe but as long as one is careful, no problems.
Try to be less sensitive when your aggressively presented rosy views are challenged. The world is a big place and the people you are addressing here have seen much of it.
If you are really looking hard still for people, I'll pass the info along to a couple guys I know who may be interested.
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airtoday,
Safe, for now, from personal attack maybe, but so-called justice in the Emirates can also endanger your personal health. I know an Antipodean pilot now working in 'dangerous' West Africa, who was once working in your safe haven. He had been working in a neighbouring country where he bought a car. When he left he sold the car and paid off his loan, but because of an error in the paperwork of the dealer, the loan was marked as unpaid. Money being more important than life to many people in that part of the world, an Interpol arrest warrant was issued and as he was departing on leave he was arrested at the airport and thrown in jail. His company did nothing at all to help him and it was just his friends, with help (slight) from his embassy who took him decent food and tried to get matters sorted out. In the meantime he was transferred from the town jail to the really harsh conditions of the desert prison where his physical condition rapidly deteriorated. He was eventually driven back to Abu Dhabi airport in a prison wagon, in chains and deported, despite no charges ever being levelled against him.
Nice place to work...... He's very happy now in 'dangerous' Africa, making considerably more money for the same amount of time off - and he was working for the 'other' company with the cr*p conditions which pays a lot better than yours.
Tell me, are all your contracts in the Emirates? A number of companies from your part of the world now also have contracts in nice 'safe' places like Yemen and Iran where pilots get shot. They and/or their families may be living in a safe haven, but they are sometimes called upon to work in other countries in the region which definitely feature in nobodies 'desireable places to work' list.
Safe, for now, from personal attack maybe, but so-called justice in the Emirates can also endanger your personal health. I know an Antipodean pilot now working in 'dangerous' West Africa, who was once working in your safe haven. He had been working in a neighbouring country where he bought a car. When he left he sold the car and paid off his loan, but because of an error in the paperwork of the dealer, the loan was marked as unpaid. Money being more important than life to many people in that part of the world, an Interpol arrest warrant was issued and as he was departing on leave he was arrested at the airport and thrown in jail. His company did nothing at all to help him and it was just his friends, with help (slight) from his embassy who took him decent food and tried to get matters sorted out. In the meantime he was transferred from the town jail to the really harsh conditions of the desert prison where his physical condition rapidly deteriorated. He was eventually driven back to Abu Dhabi airport in a prison wagon, in chains and deported, despite no charges ever being levelled against him.
Nice place to work...... He's very happy now in 'dangerous' Africa, making considerably more money for the same amount of time off - and he was working for the 'other' company with the cr*p conditions which pays a lot better than yours.
Tell me, are all your contracts in the Emirates? A number of companies from your part of the world now also have contracts in nice 'safe' places like Yemen and Iran where pilots get shot. They and/or their families may be living in a safe haven, but they are sometimes called upon to work in other countries in the region which definitely feature in nobodies 'desireable places to work' list.
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Errr Tokunbo ..... you sorta got the story a bit wrong ...
He was not deported he was released, though the Jail experience was traumatic he did in fact continue to work for the "crap company" for another year or so and did quite a lot of good work revitalising a contract in Iran for the "crap company" ...his reason for leaving was to achieve a career improvement (as well as a bigger paypacket).
Time will tell whether that goal will be achieved.
Wonder which would be worse ...a Nigerian jail or a UAE one ...I would not wish to experience either ....
cheers
He was not deported he was released, though the Jail experience was traumatic he did in fact continue to work for the "crap company" for another year or so and did quite a lot of good work revitalising a contract in Iran for the "crap company" ...his reason for leaving was to achieve a career improvement (as well as a bigger paypacket).
Time will tell whether that goal will be achieved.
Wonder which would be worse ...a Nigerian jail or a UAE one ...I would not wish to experience either ....
cheers
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cheap@#$%^&*).
Well previously I have been called Airy Toad but I would like RDRickster to pronounce the name he has given me above. I am not sorry I did not give you a job RD. Stay dumb and unhappy in Maryland.
Can you believe the venom of some people.
I like the sensible and balanced views of those like Mikeb, Spinwing and Anjouan. These people know the place and understand that I have not been misrepresenting it.
I know that I have a confrontational style. You are right HeloTeacher. I don't mind seeing the negative views because it brings out the positive.
As for Martin and the numbers: "Yes, sure you can make the same money or more at home." BUT "How did you become a helicopter pilot if you didn't have a sense of adventure."
And, Helipat, you have lost me there!
Airytoad
Can you believe the venom of some people.
I like the sensible and balanced views of those like Mikeb, Spinwing and Anjouan. These people know the place and understand that I have not been misrepresenting it.
I know that I have a confrontational style. You are right HeloTeacher. I don't mind seeing the negative views because it brings out the positive.
As for Martin and the numbers: "Yes, sure you can make the same money or more at home." BUT "How did you become a helicopter pilot if you didn't have a sense of adventure."
And, Helipat, you have lost me there!
Airytoad
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Airtoday, you must have missed the smiley face at the end; therefore, my weak attempt at humor was lost. No venom or mallus intended, but my points were brought to light by many of the previous posters. In the end, the discussion provided more of the information which really should have come from you in the beginning.
And, no I did not apply for the job - at least I'd know what to expect if I did (based on my own experiences, not what you posted). Your previous description of the area lacked a little realism for the Western foreigner. If you lost your candidates at the last minute, then perhaps you should ensure that expectations match reality for both.
And, no I did not apply for the job - at least I'd know what to expect if I did (based on my own experiences, not what you posted). Your previous description of the area lacked a little realism for the Western foreigner. If you lost your candidates at the last minute, then perhaps you should ensure that expectations match reality for both.
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Long Enough to Know
If you have been following this thread from its start you would know that it has been about giving interesting work to helicopter pilots who want or need it.
I am a helicopter pilot who has had interesting work. I am also one who has needed it. I know what it is like to dream of that marvellous job. Unfortunately now, here anyway, they stipulate minimum hours on type, even for co-pilots.
This minima comes from the major world oil companies. Mostly, American. The major helicopter companies, becoming exclusively, CHC, have the resources to train and build hours for their pilots. CHC now dictate.
Fortunately for me there are enough experienced pilots in the world who do not want to work for this Canadian Union of National Travel (C.U.N.T.) and I can still find decent people looking for employment outside of the C.U.N.T.
We are getting fewer though.
For those of us outside
Don't take on the Smell of those.....
Airytoad
I am a helicopter pilot who has had interesting work. I am also one who has needed it. I know what it is like to dream of that marvellous job. Unfortunately now, here anyway, they stipulate minimum hours on type, even for co-pilots.
This minima comes from the major world oil companies. Mostly, American. The major helicopter companies, becoming exclusively, CHC, have the resources to train and build hours for their pilots. CHC now dictate.
Fortunately for me there are enough experienced pilots in the world who do not want to work for this Canadian Union of National Travel (C.U.N.T.) and I can still find decent people looking for employment outside of the C.U.N.T.
We are getting fewer though.
For those of us outside
Don't take on the Smell of those.....
Airytoad
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You need to be a bit careful about believing some of the stuff you read here. I think if anyone in ADA is worried about approaching 60 and thinks nice Airytoad will give them a job so they don't feel cast off, they're dreaming
Some parts of the Gulf can be okay to work, but the money is not that good and as most of the flying is just to offshore it requires no more sense of adventure than flying in the GOM, the Bay of Bengal or the Bight of Benin. I guess it just might be helpful if you're suffering from a bit of hardening of the liver and want to be forced to cut back the intake of booze, but in Dubai even that is doubtful
Some parts of the Gulf can be okay to work, but the money is not that good and as most of the flying is just to offshore it requires no more sense of adventure than flying in the GOM, the Bay of Bengal or the Bight of Benin. I guess it just might be helpful if you're suffering from a bit of hardening of the liver and want to be forced to cut back the intake of booze, but in Dubai even that is doubtful
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adventurous???
Im with you PW flying with AGS is as exciting and adventurous as watching paint dry..
Airytoad is looking thru his rose coloured glasses (or the bottom of his beer glass)
Me think Airytoad was refering to driving home from Biggles with one eye closed.
Airytoad is looking thru his rose coloured glasses (or the bottom of his beer glass)
Me think Airytoad was refering to driving home from Biggles with one eye closed.
Nice safe Nigeria? Define nice and safe?
Dubai for 55,000 USD....including benefits was it....plus a sense of adventure?
Now you want adventure....sling Boughs in a Jetranger off the side of a very nice mountain in the blowing snow...or fight forest fires with a 100' longline and bucket....or dart Elk in the mountains...chase hydroplane racing boats with a camera crew...sling cedar blocks on a longline...fly a rescue or recover bodies from crevasses with a fixed line....or haul porta-loo's on a longline to the side of a snowcapped mountain....or hover in the top of an active volcano, spray and fertilize moutain side clearcuts in the Pacific Northwest....
But flogging offshore in a 212 from a sandbox....nah, no sense of adventure needed there....sorry.
And do it for more money in yer pocket too....but if you want to have a retirement twilight posting in a decent place to live for a year or two.....now maybe Dubai might be the ticket.
Dubai for 55,000 USD....including benefits was it....plus a sense of adventure?
Now you want adventure....sling Boughs in a Jetranger off the side of a very nice mountain in the blowing snow...or fight forest fires with a 100' longline and bucket....or dart Elk in the mountains...chase hydroplane racing boats with a camera crew...sling cedar blocks on a longline...fly a rescue or recover bodies from crevasses with a fixed line....or haul porta-loo's on a longline to the side of a snowcapped mountain....or hover in the top of an active volcano, spray and fertilize moutain side clearcuts in the Pacific Northwest....
But flogging offshore in a 212 from a sandbox....nah, no sense of adventure needed there....sorry.
And do it for more money in yer pocket too....but if you want to have a retirement twilight posting in a decent place to live for a year or two.....now maybe Dubai might be the ticket.
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Airytoad is probably in a safer place now than he was 10 years ago, which is maybe why nowadays he views the world through rose colored spectacles rather than rose colored eyes.
He should be rather careful of slagging off the Canadian Union of National Travel (not a particularly amusing pun anyway) who offer considerably more opportunities to their pilots than his own outfit, often with better benefits, better money, more variety and more opportunities for genuine adventure. If Aerogulf is operating in Yemen, then maybe there's some adventure (but then forget all the guff about personal safety).
He should be rather careful of slagging off the Canadian Union of National Travel (not a particularly amusing pun anyway) who offer considerably more opportunities to their pilots than his own outfit, often with better benefits, better money, more variety and more opportunities for genuine adventure. If Aerogulf is operating in Yemen, then maybe there's some adventure (but then forget all the guff about personal safety).
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Safer Place
Hi Tokumbo.
Yes, for sure, Nigeria was a safer place than others I have been.
Much, much, more safe than some. I liked, very much, the people I worked with there.
There is no doubt, though, that one of the best places I have had to work is here in Dubai.
Airytoad
Yes, for sure, Nigeria was a safer place than others I have been.
Much, much, more safe than some. I liked, very much, the people I worked with there.
There is no doubt, though, that one of the best places I have had to work is here in Dubai.
Airytoad
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Senior al Qaeda figure nabbed in Dubai...
Ya, a bastion of safety for the Westerner (NOT)...
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapc...rap/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapc...rap/index.html
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R D Rickster
Your post only goes tp show how safe Dubai is - an Al Qaeda suspect was actually arrested there. Or do you want to imply that any country in which an Al Qaeda suspect is arrested is not safe - like the USA maybe?
Your post only goes tp show how safe Dubai is - an Al Qaeda suspect was actually arrested there. Or do you want to imply that any country in which an Al Qaeda suspect is arrested is not safe - like the USA maybe?
I think you meant well airtoad, but the general concensus of opinion seems to be:
Great job for hour building for a single guy for about a couple of years - then move out and move on, perhaps?
Afetr all - £29000.....do people really earn that little flying commercially????? Then rub their noses in it by asking them to live in one of the most expensive areas, too?
I think this is a gem of a job for that young up and coming wannabee looking for some early adventures abroad and some fact finding missions...single
Great job for hour building for a single guy for about a couple of years - then move out and move on, perhaps?
Afetr all - £29000.....do people really earn that little flying commercially????? Then rub their noses in it by asking them to live in one of the most expensive areas, too?
I think this is a gem of a job for that young up and coming wannabee looking for some early adventures abroad and some fact finding missions...single